2.3L Max RPM on stock bottom end
Forums at Modded Mustangs
Home Register FAQ Members List Calendar Timeslips Blogs Garage Gallery Auto Loans Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow


Go Back   Forums at Modded Mustangs > Mustang Forums > 2.3 Mustangs

ModdedMustangs.com is the premier Ford Mustang Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old March 18th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #1
Newbie
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10
mpettus is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

2.3L Max RPM on stock bottom end


Anyone have any experience with increasing the RPM limit on a stock 2.3 bottom end. I swapped out my dual plug head for a single D-port, and it has a roller cam in it already. I checked the valve lift, and it is in the 0.620 range.

Not sure who the cam manufacture is, but looking at Esslingers' web site, the cams they have in that range good in the 5000 - 8000RPM range. I know I can't run 8K RPM (atleast not for very long) but what would be a reasonable increase over the stock 6K? 6500/7000? I am assuming the rod studs are going to be the weak link.

Motor is going to run endurance races, but I am trying to do what I can with the stock short block for now.

Thanks,
Matt
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old March 19th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #2
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
OHC230's Avatar
 
Supercharged 89'/ 85' SVO
11.945 @ 119.6
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napa Valley CA
Posts: 1,245
OHC230 is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

The piston skirts on stock cast pistons will usually go first, so a set of forged pistons is going to be the first order of business. I would restrict the stock rpm on a non-turbo motor below 5500 RPM, next you would want to upgrade the rod bolts and the oil pump drive shaft and distributor gear. In order to effectively use a .620" lift cam, you will need to increase the compression ratio. I would shoot for 12:1 as a minimum. You will need a good set of rods such as the Crower sportsman and it would be a good idea to use the Esslinger main cap stud and strap kit. engine balance would also be a must.

Honestly, the .620 cam you have, is way more than what you need for an endurance racing engine. I would sell it or trade it for something with less than .500" of lift.
__________________

TVS Supercharged SVO 2.7L

528 HP
561 ft lb
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 19th, 2012, 02:29 PM   #3
Newbie
 
a couple 2.3's
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 25
DJ2.3 is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

There are some guys on 4m.net making some crazy claims about what a stock bottom end can withstand. I think 1 or 2 guys claiming they have run em up to 8k. I don't know how long of a time that is or how much they are bs'ing but i would like an honest answer on this also. Maybe i will be able to let you know in a few months. I am gona try running with my limiter at 68-7000 i think. With the type of racing i do it wouldn't be running up there that long and i will try to get shifted by 6k but it is just annoying always running into a wall at 6k. In first and second it comes around quick with 4:10's.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 19th, 2012, 04:05 PM   #4
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
Mikel89us's Avatar
 
1991 Mustang 2.3L
11:42 @ 61 in the 1/8th
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Logansport, IN
Posts: 1,073
Mikel89us will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to Mikel89us Send a message via Skype™ to Mikel89us
Default

Well this is a debatable question. I took a stock bottom end (never rebuilt) out of a friends car, that had 80,000 miles on it. I threw a solid lift head on it with a good cam and ran it at 7500 rpm everyweekend. i went to a different track and ran about 8300 rpm for a whole night and it never came apart. I personally with stock pistons wouldnt run over 7000 in a street car, but i wouldnt go higher. OHC230 knows his stuff, so his advice is probably worth 10X mine. But i personally have never had any problems with high rpm stock engines.
__________________
1991 Mustang LX 2.3L 5 Speed convert
1989 Ranger 4X4 2.5L 5 Speed solid Dana 30 front axle, 4.5" suspension lift, 3" body. ( blown up....)
Entire turbo kit waiting to be used again.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 19th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #5
Newbie
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10
mpettus is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Thanks for the input. The car is running in the 24hrs of Lemons, so the cap for the whole car is $500 excluding safety equipment. So I am kind of stuck with what I have (legally) so far.

I will try to remeasure the cam this weekend, but I am pretty sure it was in the .620 range. The cam specs that Esslinger or Racer Walsh, etc use are at the valve and not the gross lobe lift correct?

The motor it came off of threw a rod, but I have 3 Manely 5.7rods and a set of Wiesco pistons that are .030" over. Again, trying to stay within the rules I was going to try and use the bottom end, but I think we could build a stout bottom end for not a ton of money. Last year we ran a stock 2.3 dual plug head, and were running it to 6000RPM for 2 different 24hr endurance races. Not saying it will last forever, but we did have some success with the stock bottom end - atleast up to 6K : ) Just curious if we could push it a little further.

As far as compression goes, I think we will be running in the 11:1 range. I cc'ed the heads with a cheap kit, and I think it was in the 53cc range (I forgot to write it down) and when I did the calculation it was in the 10.5 - 11 range.

Motor will have an upgraded distributor gear but it has the stock intermediate shaft. Esslinger Intake, Holley 500CFM carb, Esslinger adjustable cam gear.

Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I can finish getting the motor together and get it on the dyno to see what it is doing. I am hoping we can get some more usable power without reving it too high. I agree with everything you mentioned OHC230, so we might have to investigate making these mods.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 20th, 2012, 02:02 PM   #6
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
Mikel89us's Avatar
 
1991 Mustang 2.3L
11:42 @ 61 in the 1/8th
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Logansport, IN
Posts: 1,073
Mikel89us will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to Mikel89us Send a message via Skype™ to Mikel89us
Default

If you want to use the big cam at high rpm a slight advance in cam timing will bring your tourque range down.
__________________
1991 Mustang LX 2.3L 5 Speed convert
1989 Ranger 4X4 2.5L 5 Speed solid Dana 30 front axle, 4.5" suspension lift, 3" body. ( blown up....)
Entire turbo kit waiting to be used again.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 20th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #7
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
OHC230's Avatar
 
Supercharged 89'/ 85' SVO
11.945 @ 119.6
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napa Valley CA
Posts: 1,245
OHC230 is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Over the years, I have torn apart and assembled hundreds's of engines, many of them were 2.3's. I have seen my fair share of distorted or broken piston skirts and ring lands on 2.3L motors. Usually the customer complaints are "Rod knock coming from the engine" which almost invariably is caused by piston skirts or broken ring lands.

We engineers tend to think of things in our own terms, no wonder we make people crazy. When we look at the statistics on aluminum castings, one of the more important numbers we should take into account are the "Minimum tensile strengths" for a material, which gives us some kind of idea of how much a part can take before it breaks. This is a science, based of facts, not internet conjecture.

Cast pistons in general have about a third of the tensile strength of a Hyper-eutectic piston and about 1/8 of the tensile strength of a forged piston. Simply put, they will yield at a much lower value than a forged piston.

Aluminum, unlike steel has a very limited fatigue life, meaning that it will only resist failure through a limited number of cycles before permanently deforming, or failing. It is just a matter of time until the guys on 4m.net blow their engines sky high.

Can you rev a stock motor to 8,000? Of course you can, but for how long?

For such a small amount of $$ you can ensure the engine runs effectively for the long haul, by purchasing a set of Keith Black hyper-eutectic pistons for a $150.00 and a set of ARP rod bolts as a minimum.

All of that aside, is your stock engine really making its peak HP at 8,000 RPM?

I would be interested in seeing the dyno results.

For an endurance racer with a stock bottom end at 7,000 RPM, I will stick my neck out and say you will last 3-4 hours, before piston failure occurs. Remember load increases by the square of the speed
__________________

TVS Supercharged SVO 2.7L

528 HP
561 ft lb
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old March 21st, 2012, 10:55 AM   #8
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
Mikel89us's Avatar
 
1991 Mustang 2.3L
11:42 @ 61 in the 1/8th
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Logansport, IN
Posts: 1,073
Mikel89us will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to Mikel89us Send a message via Skype™ to Mikel89us
Default

I wasn awae of all of this when i ran my engine around 8K. Since ive been to college i leaned that its a very bad idea. I was just throwing in my expeience.
__________________
1991 Mustang LX 2.3L 5 Speed convert
1989 Ranger 4X4 2.5L 5 Speed solid Dana 30 front axle, 4.5" suspension lift, 3" body. ( blown up....)
Entire turbo kit waiting to be used again.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Forums at Modded Mustangs forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools


Threads Similar to: 2.3L Max RPM on stock bottom end
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Max HP on a stock 3V bottom end? 06PONY 2005 - 2010 24 May 9th, 2011 04:11 PM
What is the most rwhp you've seen on a stock bottom end? stanglifemike 2005 - 2010 23 November 19th, 2009 02:01 PM
How Much HP On Stock Bottom End 5litercobra 2.3 Mustangs 5 November 13th, 2007 03:55 PM
12s with stock bottom end? 95wip 94-95 8 April 17th, 2007 12:10 AM
How Much HP Can Stock GT Bottom End Take? Clutchmaster 99 - 04 14 March 22nd, 2007 04:58 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:38 AM.
Modded Mustangs is ©2005-2008, All Rights Reserved, And is Not Affiliated with Ford Motor Company.
Forum is powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Ent. Ltd. & SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.

powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Ent. Ltd.