[bigpappy33]

Nasty what made you go with the Konis over Bilstein?

[07stanggt]

sam freaking strano.

[bigpappy33]

Originally Posted by 07stanggt sam freaking strano.

LOL

[07stanggt]

[07stanggt]

You know what I hate about koni.

In the detail section of their shocks on their website this is what it says

STR.T Shocks



Are you ready for the road? For curves? For adrenalin?
KONI Street is the answer.

> Entry level performance shock absorber
> Compliments lower springs
> Perfect for OE replacement or vehicle improvement
> Non-adjustable
> Lifetime Warranty


Nothing. what kind of shock is it?

[07stanggt]

as apposed to the information on Bilsteins website. You got pictures of the inside of that shock and a breakdown of every peice and why its there.

Bilstein

Bilstein also manufactures an extensive line of performance gas pressure struts for most automotive applications. Utilizing the same technological design advantages as our gas pressure shock absorbers, Bilstein monotube struts also provide superior stability through exceptional resistance to lateral forces.
Bilstein's twin tube strut assemblies are manufactured with the extreme attention to precision and detail that Bilstein is famous for. They're designed to withstand maximum loads while providing high durability.

And like our shock absorbers, Bilstein Struts are built for the specific application.

Bilstein Gas Pressure Strut/Inserts operate on the same principle as our normal gas pressure shock absorber. In the conventional McPherson strut (which is based on the use of the twin tube shock absorber) the piston rod protrudes above the McPherson strut assembly and attaches to the sprung mass of the vehicle. In this type of application the piston rod has to absorb not only compression and rebound forces but tremendous side loads.

The Bilstein principle is to manufacture the strut/insert with the rod pointing down into the strut tube, thereby utilizing the thicker, stouter body portion of the shock absorber to dissipate side loads (see sketch). In short, due to the increased diameter and surface of the pressure tube, the Bilstein Gas Pressure Strut/Insert is better suited to take increased side loads when compared with the conventional twin tube strut/insert.

The Bilstein Gas Pressure Strut/Insert, whose development was strongly influenced by the Motorsport industry, has other advantages besides the one quoted above, namely greater stability, better road handling, and accurate steering. This combined with extremely high quality manufacturing and materials, means Bilsteins will last approximately four times as long as original replacement inserts.
Heat is one of the major detriments to the performance and longevity of any shock absorber. Conventional designed shocks trap the heat within the shock body and preventing adequate dissipation, making them prone to heat build up, fade and eventual failure.

Bilstein's technically superior, patented monotube gas charged design allows the excessive heat from the oil to transfer to the outer surface of the shock body and dissipate more efficiently. The dividing piston also permits the oil to expand as heat builds, preventing aeration (foaming) and viscosity loss. This allows the shock to maintain full damping characteristics as temperatures rise.

Superior Monotube Design & Fabrication
The tube of a Bilstein Gas Pressure Shock Absorber is fabricated using a special extrusion method. This process achieves an extremely tight peak-to-valley tolerance and maintains consistent wall thickness. Bilstein's seamless monotube design provides superior tube strength while maximizing heat dissipation and shock life.


Digressive Working Piston Assembly
The piston head design allows independent tuning of the compression and rebound damping forces to provide optimum ride comfort and performance without compromise. It features fewer parts than most conventional twin tube and so called "road sensing" shock designs. This simple, yet exceptionally functional digressive design contributes to the extreme durability and long life of Bilstein Shock Absorbers.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
»BETTER BUILT
Most conventional shocks are made with shock bodies cut from a piece of steel tubing, stamped internal parts and compromised tolerances.

In contrast, Bilstein's shock bodies are precision formed through a unique seamless extrusion process. This provides superior strength along with high finish tolerances that are usually associated with surgical instruments. The shock body is then treated with a special paint finish durable enough to withstand grueling 240-hour salt spray tests. The finished body is mated with a solid, induction hardened steel chrome plated and polished shaft, machined valving components and highest quality seals. Combined with extreme attention to detail, Bilstein manufactures the closest thing to a hand built shock available today.

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[NastyFX4]

I guess that's why Koni can sell the shocks for $450 shipped vs Bilstein charging $700 shipped. Koni doesn't have a guy sitting there typing the specs and sales pitch on the website. No seriously, I'm not completely positive on either yet. I'm still going to dwell on which one I want. The Koni's price is attractive and from what I've read it seems like they are one of the best performing shocks in this price range. I'm going to wait until I come back from vacation and figure out which shock/struts I want ..

[07stanggt]

I just wish they had anything at all on their site about the design. I called them last year just so I knew the pros and cons and really didnt get many answers. We are the best trust us. Sure. Same for tokico. Its nice to read something substanative about the part.

[NastyFX4]

Originally Posted by 07stanggt I just wish they had anything at all on their site about the design. I called them last year just so I knew the pros and cons and really didnt get many answers. We are the best trust us. Sure. Same for tokico. Its nice to read something substantive about the part.

I hear you .. It's not going to be an easy decision. I'm not looking forward to taking it all apart again after I already replaced this shit. I ordered another set of GT500 strut mounts, all new bolts, fasteners, nuts, etc. I'm not taking a chance that something stupid is going to make me rip it all apart again ..

[Sam Strano]

Sam freaking Strano here.

Koni's are also digressive. I'm with you, Bilstein's propaganda is better than Koni's. But I avoid all that crap like the plague. When parts are about who can put together the best words, it might as well be politics.

I carry Bilstein too (and make that clear to folks). I have nothing against Bilstein, I choose Koni 95% of the time. If what you have against Koni is their copy isn't as exciting, I can't agrue. I just know they work better, and that given the choice one damping setting cannot fit all situations. Now, I realize STR.T's are not adjsutable either. But then again, they are not nearly what a set of Bilstein's cost. And if you are to spend that kind of dough, then spend it on a damper that gives you options and flexibility, which the Bilstein's can't. Neither can STR.T's, but @ $459 a set shipped, I don't think anyone expects it.

Edited to add this link, for those that think Koni has no information: http://www.koni-na.com/pdf/tech.pdf Knock yourselves out.

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by DiMora MMMM, Yellow Konis. I've heard good things about them. If / when I kill my Tokicos, I am trying those next: Fronts: 8741 1494 Sport Rears: 8241 1240 Sport Rebuildable - and with a lifetime warranty! I wonder if they also have remote adjusters for the rears like Tokico has? Strano Performance Parts - Parts Search

To be fair, that's a generic pic... not actually of S197 dampers.

There is no remote adjuster, which frankly are a waste of money anyway. The rear adjuster on both D-spec and Koni's is very, very easy to get at. I mean those carpeted "panels" are so flimsy they just fold down. I never, ever take someone's money for the remote adjusters on a Mustang.

[07stanggt]

So Bilstiens information on construction design is propaganda and sales pitch?

Fair enough

So what would you call koni's one paragraph in the "details" section of those srt.t's basically telling me for adrenaline buy there shocks. I can drop a hammer on my foot for an adrenaline rush.

Appreciate the chart and I am really not trying to challenge you. your record speaks for itself and there is no doubt you know more then me. But where im coming from is this; Call it what you want but if Koni had a damn thing to brag about they would type up 6 pages doing it in my opinion.

The d specs perform well, for a day or two.

I just have simple questions on the type and design of these shocks.

The part numbers listed for the street are not listed on the chart provided in that link.

[07stanggt]

Here is my questions. Are they montube. Are then inverted like the Bilstiens. Will they hold up not only for a race car trailered to the track, but for 60k daily driver miles plus track days plus the occasional off track bumpy excursion a noob such as myself is known to take. 450 is a great price, but not if i have to buy them once a year?

You say they handle better. ill take your word for that though I am not good enough to feel limited by the Bilsteins on my car. The car didnt feel soft at all to me with my setup on the track.

I doubt im looking at the srt.t next year when I redo this car becuase if I am getting something other then Bilsteins Ill be looking for something more aggressive. But i need something that takes a beating if you know what I mean.

The D specs were all the rage of shops last year and the fact is they were weak and shops were pushing them without really much testing. Where is some propaganda to tell me the Koni's arent just another flavor of the month?

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by 07stanggt Where is some propaganda to tell me the Koni's arent just another flavor of the month?

Griggs Racing Products

[07stanggt]

Link failed. And again I appreciate the link. I really do want to know the internals of this shock.

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by 07stanggt Link failed. And again I appreciate the link. I really do want to know the internals of this shock.

EDIT: Try the above link again, I noticed for some reason it had two "http://"s, that's what was breaking it.


Lame. Go to to Griggs Racing Products, then click on "Griggs Products"->'96-04 Mustang -> Components -> Front Suspension -> Strut Kits, then click on the top one in the list.

That'll give you Griggs' propoganda on why they use Konis. I'm not sure if it'll be as detailed as you want, though.

[07stanggt]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter EDIT: Try the above link again, I noticed for some reason it had two "http://"s, that's what was breaking it. Lame. Go to to Griggs Racing Products, then click on "Griggs Products"->'96-04 Mustang -> Components -> Front Suspension -> Strut Kits, then click on the top one in the list. That'll give you Griggs' propoganda on why they use Konis. I'm not sure if it'll be as detailed as you want, though.

I just want the damn construction of the shock. jesus h christ with this mustang stuff man it the same old shit. Get a shop with trophies to push it and they will buy.

Then if you disagree they say its becuase your direct with Bilstein. People know damn well it cost like 25k to buy in with bilstein and my little ass isn't direct with Bilstein. They could care less about little guys they sell direct to auto manufactures.


The BS in the business never ends.

[ReverendDexter]

[krispyrob]

Originally Posted by 07stanggt The D specs were all the rage of shops last year and the fact is they were weak and shops were pushing them without really much testing. Where is some propaganda to tell me the Koni's arent just another flavor of the month?

While I don't have any experience with either shock here, I've been doing research like mad on shocks/struts. One things that says Koni's are better quality than D-specs is their lifetime warranty, that's worth something. Also, the mustangs (and every other car) in the koni challenge series run Koni shocks. Granted, it's mandatory (as of 1/1/09,) but those cars can perform.

I'm looking to buy in the next month or so, and was going to get Bilsteins, but have been hearing great things about the Koni Yellow Sports recently. I know you guys have been talking about the SRT.Ts, but I've got a few questions about the Yellows.

Since the yellows are adjustable, my impression is that they have to be twin tube. I've been hoping to get the quality of Bilsteins (lets admit it, these things are known for being able to take a beating and lasting forever), but offering the adjustability of the D-specs. I'm hoping to have found this in the Yellows. Does anyone have experience with these shocks?

Also, Sam, you said the Bilsteins don't have adjustability... aren't they technically automatically adjusting all the time? If this is Bilstein propaganda, can you explain how a manually adjustable shock is superior to the Bilsteins for a DD/ occasional track (road racing) car?

At the end of the day, I want to be able to kick my friends' BMW's asses, and fly around the mountain roads in the mountains of western NC. That said, I also love tinkering with things. Seeing as this thread had lost it's original direction (and is a zombi thread,) I don't feel so bad hogging it... sorry for the long post.

[07stanggt]

I cant even find those shocks on Griggs site.


Thanks anyway dude.