[07stanggt]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter I'm still confused. All the videos I saw were on-course stuff. I'm not sure how that translates to Koni > Bilstein. Or did I cluelessly wander into the middle of a firefight?

elaborate?

[ReverendDexter]

It just seemed like maybe what I thought was discussion was maybe an argument. I don't see how those videos show anything beside the fact that Sam Strano has in-car video of his runs (that I'm very jealous of, as it has lateral and fore-aft g-meters, mine are just straight vid).

FWIW, I autocross, I run Bilsteins, and I'm happy with them (I have video of my runs, too, hahaha). With a fox chassis car running stock suspension, I don't think that the combination of that car and my driving is consistent enough that I would benefit from adjustable dampers. I think that adjustable shocks just gives me one more way to blame the car instead of working on my driving.

[07stanggt]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter It just seemed like maybe what I thought was discussion was maybe an argument. I don't see how those videos show anything beside the fact that Sam Strano has in-car video of his runs (that I'm very jealous of, as it has lateral and fore-aft g-meters, mine are just straight vid). FWIW, I autocross, I run Bilsteins, and I'm happy with them (I have video of my runs, too, hahaha). With a fox chassis car running stock suspension, I don't think that the combination of that car and my driving is consistent enough that I would benefit from adjustable dampers. I think that adjustable shocks just gives me one more way to blame the car instead of working on my driving.

As it refers to your car I think his point was on the s197 Bilstein missed the mark.

I dont auto cross, once thats it. I could be wrong but my point was I think auto cross is somewhat different then the road course. Its a lot tighter, smaller, slower with a lot more short quick aggressive turns. Perhaps thats where the stiffer rating in the koni's would clearly shine or a weakness in the Bilsteins would become apparent. I know what a shock lacking control or damping feels like. I ran a few times with my stock shocks and lowering springs and they clearly were not getting the job done. I ran with D specs, and was not really impressed. The Bilstein got rid of that.

[Sam Strano]

Ok, it's very common for folks to think they can't deal with adjustable shocks. It's only because they are not educated as to how they work, and actually it's not hard when yo have some help in understanding how the damping effects the car.

As for the video. It was to show how the car transitions, which is one thing shocks control. Rebound damping effects how quickly the car takes a set, generates roll, and changes direction. Also how the car rides is changed as well.

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter I'm still confused. All the videos I saw were on-course stuff. I'm not sure how that translates to Koni > Bilstein. Or did I cluelessly wander into the middle of a firefight?

No firefight, just lively discussion. Again, the video's were to show what a car can do, and how it can be handled (and how it handles) with good dampers.

Autocrossing is more shock intensive than road courses are because we transition a lot harder and more often. That said, dampers don't know, or care, where they are being run. They simply damp movement. Last I checked a 3500 pound car is 3500 pounds regarless of where it is. Of course the harder you drive, the more contorl you want because things are happening more quickly, and that's why/how I learned about shocks. You can get away with a lot less damping and have it not kill you other places. Doesn't make it right, and doens't mean you can't make it better.

I see you had D-specs, and dind't like them. Fair enough, I didn't love them either and find my Koni Sports to be much better. But it begs a question. Where did you run them? How did you go about adjusting them? For example after much setting and tuning, I settled on 2 turns off firm front, 4 off rear in the Shelby but something different on a Mustang GT we used to race (on stock springs). Any less in the front made the car lazy, more made it harsh and too darty for my liking. In the rear less made the car unpredictable when at the limit because it would generate roll too quickly, roll on and then back off the bumstops too quickly. If I ran more, the back because too sudden (because there was too much compression when all I wanted was rebound changes).

Here's the bottom line. I don't beleive the Bilstein hype that mono-tubes are the end all to everything. I have had Bilstien's, I sell Bilstein. And for years I revalved them for more sporting use on F-bodies, so I have nothing against them. Koni is not some fly by night company, the put shocks on Formula 1 cars, clueless they are not. I think they have two better products for this car than Bilstein does. The STR.T's are much more cost effective, by a bunch, have a great warranty, and are valved slightly more sporting which is better for lowering springs. The Sports are more expensive then Bilstein's but not multiple hundreds of dollars more, offer you options to make the car feel as you wish, and have a killer warranty.

And that's what it comes down to for me. Performance and value for the dollar. I'll leave it at this: I deal in all the mentioned brands. I have no loyalty to Koni over the others. I used Tokico in 2007 to win in the Shelby, I changed to Koni to test, and stayed on them because I liked them better. I used Bilstein's on a car back in 2002 to win a ProSolo title, I later found a better Koni setup for that car, and switched on it. Why do I carry brands I don't necessarily think are the "BEST"? Easy, so folks know that they have options, and if they opt for something other than I recommend. The only reason I really care what folks get it because my name is on my door and ultimately I feel that I need to do my best in recommending parts. I have 'em all. I use Koni's, I recommend Koni's over the others. That's my personal opinion, but having had particularly F-body customers change from Bilstein to Koni, I've never had anyone regret it. I've also had nobody regret changing from D-spec to Koni on an S197. Can't say I've had anyone other than myself run Bilstein and Koni both on this car, so I can't make the same claim over a lot of folks--only for myself.

[07stanggt]

Ran the d specs on the shenendoah ciricuit at summit point one time. And dont really remember what all we tried. I have a freind that races a porsche he is a licensed SCCA racer. He was messing with it. I had no complaints but i wasnt impressed enough to leave them on the car. I only put them on to try them. i alread had a local buyer who knew i was going to play with them first and then give them to him at cost. I have only had the car on Summit Point both circuits a few times each and then VIR once. VIR the stock shocks were blown I almost wrecked.

Here is a vid of me at shenendoah. Terrible video its only the first warm up laps becuase the camera died and thats the only time I ever took a camera. it was a freinds camera. Now i have a go pro camera but due to mechanical problems from rear ends to valvsprings I never took the car anywhere this year. But just so you know im not just making it all up there is the video. I really want to try something different next year even if its to send the bisltein's back and have them revalved.

Next year I am wanting to go to the Miller Motorsports park School either the two day or four day course budget depending. I was suppose to go there this spring but money became a issue. Its like 7800 i think for the 4 day course.

Shenandoah Circuit video by richardad11 - Photobucket

Shenandoah Circuit video by richardad11 - Photobucket

[Racerbox77]

Originally Posted by 06VistaBlueGT I use mine at the strip every weekend. I was seetting them to full hard in the rear and full soft in the front. I did a little experimenting with them this weekend and set them to full soft in the front and 3 out from full hard in the rear. That setting seemed to yield the best traction.

Same here


Sent from me

[Seabee]

Dates. Read them please.

[Whiskey11]

This thread does make me miss 07stanggt's expertise in building our cars and racing them around the corners. Even if things got really sour with his relationship with others, he was a wealth of knowledge.

[NastyFX4]

Please do not bump old threads Racerbox77.

Originally Posted by Whiskey11 This thread does make me miss 07stanggt's expertise in building our cars and racing them around the corners. Even if things got really sour with his relationship with others, he was a wealth of knowledge.

Bahahaha his expertise was regurgitation of information.