[unlicensed to drive]

Originally Posted by 06VistaGT I think the E-force may make a bit more power, but the Saleen has been around longer and has been proven to be dependable and it makes good power. I'd like to see a psi to psi comparison between the two.

The E-force shares the same rotor design as the Roush TVS, so I don't think that there is much to be proven because the Roush TVS already is.

[Mickey]

Originally Posted by mustangfan123 The E-force shares the same rotor design as the Roush TVS, so I don't think that there is much to be proven because the Roush TVS already is.

so i can throw the same rotors that are in the roush tvs into a completely different blower and all of a sudden it's "proven" because it uses the same rotors...

there is a lot more to a blower than rotor design kid

[06VistaGT]

+1 on what Mickey said. The Roush and E-force have completely different designs. Sure they are both TVS, but just about everything else is different.

[SoCalGT2005]

I say go for the E-Force... everything I've seen/read on it shows it making more power at a lower psi than other blowers. Less stress on the engine would be ideal for a daily driver.

[Mickey]

Originally Posted by SoCalGT2005 I say go for the E-Force... everything I've seen/read on it shows it making more power at a lower psi than other blowers. Less stress on the engine would be ideal for a daily driver.

actually, the e-force is not making more power per psi than other blowers out there...they were calculating "nominal boost" to get their numbers. On the dyno, the blower was spiking at 10psi, but they claimed it was only 7psi...great marketing though..

[SoCalGT2005]

oh wow haha I never knew that....

[Mickey]

most guys with e-force are making in the mid, high 400's at 10psi...just like any other blower

[DiMora]

Originally Posted by Mickey actually, the e-force is not making more power per psi than other blowers out there...they were calculating "nominal boost" to get their numbers. On the dyno, the blower was spiking at 10psi, but they claimed it was only 7psi...great marketing though..

Post up a dyno chart already, Mickey. With boost, please.

[DiMora]

505.49 at 11.67 PSI - and yes, that includes the highest spike.

Roushcharger TVS R2300

[DiMora]

Originally Posted by SoCalGT2005 I say go for the E-Force... everything I've seen/read on it shows it making more power at a lower psi than other blowers. Less stress on the engine would be ideal for a daily driver.

Originally Posted by Mickey actually, the e-force is not making more power per psi than other blowers out there...they were calculating "nominal boost" to get their numbers. On the dyno, the blower was spiking at 10psi, but they claimed it was only 7psi...great marketing though..

Originally Posted by SoCalGT2005 oh wow haha I never knew that....

Despite Mickey's denials, I believe it to be true. - but I would like to confirm it.

The characteristic of the TVS rotor lobes is such that the boost spikes up and down...it is not a smooth, linear increase in boost vs. RPM increase like on a twin-screw.

What I really want is for one of you to put up a whipple twin-screw chart (2.3 liter, with boost chart, please) and let's see the truth!

If you can send me a dyno run file (.drf) from a dynojet I can do an overlay - one on top of the other - so we can get a fair comparison.

Oh - and my numbers in the above post are on stock headers and stock cats...with stock heads and cams.

[Mickey]

I didnt say anything about the Roush TVS. The TVS makes very solid power per psi. I am stating that the E-Force was not all it was made out to be. Is it a solid blower? Absolutely, but it is not making more power than the other blowers out there. I dont have a whipple, but I can post my most recent dyno sheet if you like.

[DiMora]

Originally Posted by Mickey I didnt say anything about the Roush TVS. The TVS makes very solid power per psi. I am stating that the E-Force was not all it was made out to be. Is it a solid blower? Absolutely, but it is not making more power than the other blowers out there. I dont have a whipple, but I can post my most recent dyno sheet if you like.

That's true...you did not.

I know you have a Saleen...but all your other mods (porting, exhaust, etc.) are going to make it apples and oranges - as we all know longtubes lower boost.

Anyone have a Whipple 2.3 with a dyno sheet (with boost, please)? I'm not trying to diss anyones' blower...I'd just like to see boost vs. RWHP on a twin-screw and a TVS side by side (same displacement blowers) or overlayed to satisfy my curiosity. I personally do believe that TVS blowers (Both Edelbrock and the Roush) are more efficient (IE more power with less PSI) vs. a twin-screw, but I don't know for sure since I have never seen a comparison that wasn't skewed. The only comparison I've seen was a TVS R2300 on a GT500 vs. a Kenne bell 2.6 on the same car. The KB was the victor - but it also has .3 liters of additional displacement, so it wasn't fair.

My other point, Mickey, is I DO believe there is some merit in the "nominal" boost. I'm not saying discount the spikes a TVS makes entirely, as they are obviously stressing the engine, but they can't be as harsh as actually running the same level of boost full-time on a twin-screw...but I would love to learn more either way.

[unlicensed to drive]

Originally Posted by Mickey so i can throw the same rotors that are in the roush tvs into a completely different blower and all of a sudden it's "proven" because it uses the same rotors... there is a lot more to a blower than rotor design kid

True, I just kind of assumed that they shared other parts too that would effect performance, but my bad.

[DynoJoe]

Forgetting the fact that I am backed by Edelbrock, I ran the saleen blower for 2 years making over 550 at the tire and 15 PSI. This was all the Saleen could do, that's it, No more. Then folks starting porting the upper lids and it made about 1-2 PSI more. Now the Supershaker, it is the same old Blower with a new Upper lid design. It makes power, but I wouldn't drive it in the rain.



Now the E-Force I added this year has gone into the 9's once or twice but never on a regular basis for me. It is a 3980lb. Street car with full interior, A/C, P/S. This past weekend we had it on the dyno and it made 603/605 TQ on a dynojet. On my Mustang Dyno it made 583/596. This was all at 16 PSI.

It will get a new overdrive lower pulley to make 18 or so soon.

Alot of folks get so caught up in the Horsepower numbers, they forget Torque is what moves mass, and I'll take the Torque that this blower makes over the Saleen Blower any day of the week.

Choices, Choices..........

But here is what made my mind up:



Saleen- Not Steve running it, or even a figure head anymore. It's been bought and sold like Bread and Milk for the last couple years.



Edelbrock, Holding strong after 80 some odd years and still going. Don't see them closing the doors anytime soon.

[Redfire66]

DynoJoe,
I had heard the Edelbrock makes more torque, but what percentage more than the Saleen?
I would guess not much more than 5%.

[Mickey]

its not a set number or percentage...varies on every car. there are saleen blown cars, whipple blown cars and kenne bell blown cars that have more torque than horses. Once you add things like cams, full exhaust, etc, you will gain more horses than torque, its all relative.

Joe, all you could squeeze out of the Saleen was 550? there are many guys out there running significantly more power than that with the saleen blower. looks like the e-force is goin well for you, congrats.

[HBK_2007]

Originally Posted by DynoJoe Forgetting the fact that I am backed by Edelbrock, I ran the saleen blower for 2 years making over 550 at the tire and 15 PSI. This was all the Saleen could do, that's it, No more. Then folks starting porting the upper lids and it made about 1-2 PSI more. Now the Supershaker, it is the same old Blower with a new Upper lid design. It makes power, but I wouldn't drive it in the rain. Now the E-Force I added this year has gone into the 9's once or twice but never on a regular basis for me. It is a 3980lb. Street car with full interior, A/C, P/S. This past weekend we had it on the dyno and it made 603/605 TQ on a dynojet. On my Mustang Dyno it made 583/596. This was all at 16 PSI. It will get a new overdrive lower pulley to make 18 or so soon. Alot of folks get so caught up in the Horsepower numbers, they forget Torque is what moves mass, and I'll take the Torque that this blower makes over the Saleen Blower any day of the week. Choices, Choices.......... But here is what made my mind up: Saleen- Not Steve running it, or even a figure head anymore. It's been bought and sold like Bread and Milk for the last couple years. Edelbrock, Holding strong after 80 some odd years and still going. Don't see them closing the doors anytime soon.

hows that compare to KB twin screw? and y did edlebrock to with a long runners instead of short runners? arent short runners better for boost?

[onederful100]

Originally Posted by DiMora That's true...you did not. I know you have a Saleen...but all your other mods (porting, exhaust, etc.) are going to make it apples and oranges - as we all know longtubes lower boost. Anyone have a Whipple 2.3 with a dyno sheet (with boost, please)? I'm not trying to diss anyones' blower...I'd just like to see boost vs. RWHP on a twin-screw and a TVS side by side (same displacement blowers) or overlayed to satisfy my curiosity. I personally do believe that TVS blowers (Both Edelbrock and the Roush) are more efficient (IE more power with less PSI) vs. a twin-screw, but I don't know for sure since I have never seen a comparison that wasn't skewed. The only comparison I've seen was a TVS R2300 on a GT500 vs. a Kenne bell 2.6 on the same car. The KB was the victor - but it also has .3 liters of additional displacement, so it wasn't fair. My other point, Mickey, is I DO believe there is some merit in the "nominal" boost. I'm not saying discount the spikes a TVS makes entirely, as they are obviously stressing the engine, but they can't be as harsh as actually running the same level of boost full-time on a twin-screw...but I would love to learn more either way.

this is not my dyno chart, bc mine does not have the boost on it. it is from dragtimes.com. it is a 2.3L whippled GT with a stock motor. makes 498/477 @ 10.2 psi.
mine makes 462/432 @ 8 psi on a stock motor.
my friend has tuned a whipple @ 10 psi on a stock motor to 515 hp.

[Mickey]

Originally Posted by HBK_2007 hows that compare to KB twin screw? and y did edlebrock to with a long runners instead of short runners? arent short runners better for boost?

longer runners create more torque

[HBK_2007]

Originally Posted by Mickey longer runners create more torque

i know that. is that the only reason they went that route?