[SKRAPR]

Ok . . .
I've been looking at a number of forums for a few months now. Read a few things . . . heard a few things . . .

My 05 GT is bone-stock . . . warranty up this spring . . .

My desired mod's are:
1) gears 3.73's or 4.10's (can't decide)
2) exhaust (bassani full exhaust)
3) cam's or port heads (maybe both - need more research)
4) Power adder? (rather not)

I would like to build around 450-500 hp. Application is mostly street (for the hell of it) . . . haven't been to the strip . . . yet. From most of what I've read, I can't do this n/a. Is this true? Any comments?

If not, can someone give me a quick summary of what all is involved with "building/forging the bottom end"? Is this more costly than the actual blower itself?

[leebunnyz]

your not gettting 450whp out of an N/A setup. you will need a poweradder to hit those numbers. with FULL boltons, cams, and ported heads you will be round 350-365 maybe.
bottom ends cost about $2500 with maybe a 1000-1500 install. full F/I kit with everything you need and install is going to be round $7000, dependin on the kit.

[TheUNZippee!]

500 hp is the most our stock bottom ends will take generally speaking.

It would be tough to hit 450-500 while staying naturally aspirated. Not tough, in terms of it's impossible to do, but tough in that if you did it that way the car wouldn't be streetable. You would need such a radical camshaft profile to attain those numbers without forced induction, that the car would not be practical for the street.

Don't be so automatically against power adders if you can afford them. How nice is it to slap on a turbo or a supercharger, run 8 psi, and hit mid-400 rwhp? The car idles perfectly, retains normal fuel mileage under normal driving, and is perfectly streetable in every manner.

[killermach1]

I am by no means an expert but with what research I have done I believe that you will be able to attain over 400RWHP while staying N/A but that is about the limit. That is with ported heads, agressive but streetable cams, and FULL bolt ons. IE: CAI, Throttle body, CMC Plates, Headers, off road mid pipe and high flowing cat back exhaust, Spyder shaft, Meziere electric water pump, and steeda crank pulley, and a good custom tune for it all. you should be able to hit in the neighborhood of 425 with those mods. At that level you should also be good with the stock bottom end I have herd 450-500 RWHP is the limit on our internals but I would not want to push that theory.

Oh and one thing that you will have that a FI car won't is that sick muscle car idle with agressive cams, long tube headers off road mid, itwill be nasty. lub, lub, lub. Mmmm I can hear it in my head.

[05mustang_TT_charged]

Video

watch these videos, the car has every bolt on, ported-polished heads, bbr stage 2 cams, cai, longtube headers, ect....

[05mustang_TT_charged]

Combination during dyno run

• Stock Short Block
• Stock Intake
• BBR CNC Throttle Body
• BBR CNC Heads
• BBR 3V Custom Cams
• JLT Cold Air Kit
• SCT X-Calibrator
• BBR Under-drive Pullies
• BBR Charge Motion Plates
• Stainless Works 15/8 Longtube headers
• BBR Custom Side Exhaust w/ Magna Flow Mufflers
• 4.10 Rear Gears
• 20"x10" Rear Wheels

this is what they had on the car to make 406 rwhp, may have been more because they ran out of fuel on the top end

[TheUNZippee!]

Originally Posted by killermach1 I am by no means an expert but with what research I have done I believe that you will be able to attain over 400RWHP while staying N/A but that is about the limit. That is with ported heads, agressive but streetable cams, and FULL bolt ons. IE: CAI, Throttle body, CMC Plates, Headers, off road mid pipe and high flowing cat back exhaust, Spyder shaft, Meziere electric water pump, and steeda crank pulley, and a good custom tune for it all. you should be able to hit in the neighborhood of 425 with those mods. At that level you should also be good with the stock bottom end I have herd 450-500 RWHP is the limit on our internals but I would not want to push that theory. Oh and one thing that you will have that a FI car won't is that sick muscle car idle with agressive cams, long tube headers off road mid, itwill be nasty. lub, lub, lub. Mmmm I can hear it in my head.

400rwhp is about 470flywheel horsepower. So you are talking almost a 200 horsepower increase. An increase in power of roughly 60% over the stock 300 flywheel hp. I have not seen this done yet, and if you have a video/information on this, I'd be curious to see it. I'm not calling you a liar, I mean I really would be interested in seeing that. To attain those numbers without forced induction of some kind is indeed possible, but there is no way you would have a streetable, normally drivable car that gets 20+mpg on the highway. Mild to aggressive cams in our cars add roughly 30 rwhp in conjunction with a good custom tune, intake, and exhaust, and good heads will add another 30-40horse. Adding 170-200 rwhp without some kind of forced induction would require an increase in compression, a radical camshaft profile, a big increase in fuel supply, and the best heads you can get your hands on. Now you will also need a steep torque converter in an automatic, since a lumpy cam will be making power WAY up high in the powerband, and you will also need a steeper gear out back.

If you like the lumpy sound of an after market cam (lord knows I do), you can get a nice mild camshaft that has a profile set to match a supercharger or turbocharger(Comp Cams Stage II to name one), put your FI on, and at very low boost make great power, have a nice little lopey sound, have perfectly normal drivability, still have decent mpg, and have the added bonus of being able to jack the boost up till the cows come home if you ever put a forged rotating assembly in the bitch.

[killermach1]

Zipp video posted by O5 Mustang above ilistrates my statement The only part differing between the 380 and 406 hp runs was a throttle body as best as I can tell, as well as a more agressive tune. Add a Spyder Shaft and the afore mentioned Meziere electric water pump and your right at the number I estimated. Add a GT500dual fuel pump and bigger injectors and bingo your in the 425 RWHP ballpark. Pretty damn good for a 4.6, this renews my faith in my N/A plan.

[SKRAPR]

Hmmm . . .

bottom ends cost about $2500 with maybe a 1000-1500 install. full F/I kit with everything you need and install is going to be round $7000, dependin on the kit.

So that's about $10k for the f/i done properly??? Holy crap!

Not against power adder. Would love one . . . hey only money right . . .

and the wheezing sound that you hear is air coming out of my balloon. Damn!


Wouldn't I be better off just to buy a new/larger block at that price? Or is that what is really meant by "forging the bottom end"? . . . new block/pistons/etc?

Thanks for the info anyway.

[06RedfireGT]

I thinkj you could easily hit the 400hp mark n/a with every bolt on they make, and I also think you could hit 450 if you bored it out to a 302 and raised the compression to somewhere around 12:1, you could hit even more with a super aggressive tune and race fuel.

[06RedfireGT]

Originally Posted by SKRAPR Hmmm . . . So that's about $10k for the f/i done properly??? Holy crap! Not against power adder. Would love one . . . hey only money right . . . and the wheezing sound that you hear is air coming out of my balloon. Damn! Wouldn't I be better off just to buy a new/larger block at that price? Or is that what is really meant by "forging the bottom end"? . . . new block/pistons/etc? Thanks for the info anyway.

No, that price is a for a forged bottom end AND supercharger. The supercharger will run between $4k and $6k plus installation. The forged bottom end consistes of forged pistons, connecting rods, and crankshaft.

[TheUNZippee!]

Originally Posted by killermach1 Zipp video posted by O5 Mustang above ilistrates my statement The only part differing between the 380 and 406 hp runs was a throttle body as best as I can tell, as well as a more agressive tune. Add a Spyder Shaft and the afore mentioned Meziere electric water pump and your right at the number I estimated. Add a GT500dual fuel pump and bigger injectors and bingo your in the 425 RWHP ballpark. Pretty damn good for a 4.6, this renews my faith in my N/A plan.

Yes, that's definitely food for thought.

[06RedfireGT]

If I were rich I would definetly want to build a high HP n/a mod motor.

[rxnodoze02]

sutton just hooked me up with a sc for 3300 and then i have to put it on the dyno to get all the vitals right + 400 for dyno so its not that bad. in bolt on parts i just spent a ton of money. I just bought magnaflow high flow cats w/ x pipe , magnaflow mufflers, intake, TB and a tune picked up good power but no where near where i want to be and the price $2,093 that no gear yet

[leebunnyz]

Originally Posted by 06RedfireGT No, that price is a for a forged bottom end AND supercharger. The supercharger will run between $4k and $6k plus installation. The forged bottom end consistes of forged pistons, connecting rods, and crankshaft.

^yea whats he said...the kit i want cost 5k, other lil accessories you might need add about another 500-600. and installation might be another 1k.

[TheUNZippee!]

Me like turbo

[06RedfireGT]

Zip, this is what I think. I know a turbo is superior to a supercharger, but my motor will stay internally stock. The only way I would get turbos is on a built motor with twins so there is no lag. On the internally stock motor I like the instant boost of the supercharger.

[TheUNZippee!]

I hear ya. It's probably silly for me to talk about either one, as me doing anything serious is not going to happen until the car is paid off 4 years down the road. When that day comes though, I will be going turbo, since the majority of my driving is done on the highway, and to be honest, I never used to be a turbo guy, but I have just grown to love that sound.

[Monark]

Originally Posted by SKRAPR Hmmm . . . So that's about $10k for the f/i done properly??? Holy crap! Not against power adder. Would love one . . . hey only money right . . . and the wheezing sound that you hear is air coming out of my balloon. Damn! Wouldn't I be better off just to buy a new/larger block at that price? Or is that what is really meant by "forging the bottom end"? . . . new block/pistons/etc? Thanks for the info anyway.

Well you could go N/A plus nitrous for the time being as a cheap alternative to doing a poweradder.

[06RedfireGT]

Check this out Zip.

Squires Turbo Systems - Mustang Sound & Video