[05roush0090]

Anyone using BBR products. They seem to be the most aggressive as far as Cams I like their stage 2 cams, sound nice and mean. I read on another forum though that they were originally using regrinds and they were not working out well in the long run. I have seen that they now offer new grinds so I am assuming the new grinds would be safe to use correct? I am thinking about the following set-up. But wanted to get the advice of some people with the BBR products first. Tell me what you think.

C&L racer intake
bbk 62mm TB
steeda uD pulleys
steeda race delete plates
Kooks LTw highflow catted X
BBR ported Heads
BBR stg.2 cams
4.10s
spec stg. 3 clutch
che LCAs
che UCA
che panhard rod

[06RedfireGT]

05_mustang_kb_charged is using their stage II cams along with a few of their other products.

[06RedfireGT]

oh and

[usafimj]

Take the BBK TB out of there. Not worth the hassle on our cars. Stock TB are good untill 500hp if I'm not mistaken.

[05roush0090]

Originally Posted by 06RedfireGT oh and

Thanks, I seen he had some trouble tuning it. was it a hard tune or was it mechanical error, couldnt really tell from the post for sure.

Originally Posted by usafimj Take the BBK TB out of there. Not worth the hassle on our cars. Stock TB are good untill 500hp if I'm not mistaken.

500hp to the crank or RWHP?

[Mickey]

500rwhp is where the stock TB restricts sufficient airflow...not an exact number, but a ballpark

[05roush0090]

Thanks I dont think I will be anywhere near that number Iwould be happy to get around 400rwhp so I geuss I dont need the tb after all.

[05roush0090]

Mickey. the link in your sig isnt working.

[06RedfireGT]

Another thing I would look at is upgrading to higher capacity injectors and either a BAP or GT500 fuel pumps because at around 400hp is when you start running out of fuel.

[05roush0090]

I was about to ask that next. How about the BAP and 39lb injectors. you think that would be sufficient and reliable?

[06RedfireGT]

Yeah I think so. I still don't like the BAP though. It's half assing it IMO. I would do GT500 fuel pumps if it were my car.

[07stanggt]

looks good dude. As for the TB, i know it can be a pain if not done right, but i have seen dynos with cams and ported heads like your doing where the TB adds another 10 hp and added power throughout the powerband adds mid range TQ as well. They put it on the gains were there, took it off the gains went away. With the heads, cams and delete plates your at the point that the TB can help.

Anyways will be a bad ass ride man.

As for your question about them using regrinds, i heard they still do.
i was researching cams for the last few months, but that could be old info. I never heard anyone with them complain about them.

[05roush0090]

they are offering new grind billet cams now also. I think I will go with the new grind cam. You know any thing about the cam phaser lockouts? I hear they prevent alot ofthe VCT issues with the more aggressive cams. I am not sure on how the work though, can you explain it a little better?

[07stanggt]

Originally Posted by 05roush0090 they are offering new grind billet cams now also. I think I will go with the new grind cam. You know any thing about the cam phaser lockouts? I hear they prevent alot ofthe VCT issues with the more aggressive cams. I am not sure on how the work though, can you explain it a little better?

Explain it in what way? they are basically disableing the VCT right? locking the cam phaser in fully retarded or fully advanced posisition. To avoid clearance issues cuased by vavle float with the vct and aftermarket cams.

[07stanggt]

here you go this if from a guy named mike@livernios, he answered your question in another furum. Here is the link if you want to read that whole thread. Cam phaser -vs- lockout and degreeing R&D info...Anyone - Page 5 - ModularFords.com

Here are his comments.

Sorry for not getting in on this sooner with some info. I have been very busy at the shop.

Anyways, as stated in some previous posts its important to keep in mind the difference between crankshaft degrees and camshaft degrees since they are different and that is a point of confusion for many people.

The initital purpose of these lockouts was for nothing more than to eliminate the problems that we had seen with the stock phaser when used in conjunction with aftermarket springs and cam profiles. After numerous tests were completed, we found that in most cases the chance of the phaser failing at some point in time were very high when aftermarket spring pressures were used. As a previous poster explained, the cam phaser operates directly off oil pressure acting on a series of plates. This pressure is fed to either side of these inner plates or vanes and this is what controls the internal rotation of the gear independent from the outer cam gear. The only easy way to make the phaser work better in these situations where higher load capabilites are required is to up the oil pressure. The problem is that the system and solenoid that controls this is not designed to handle higher than factory pressures and still work correctly. The system has enough problems on its own in stock form. This is evident by the Ford TSBs that relate to it and the constant revisions of phasers from Ford.

The first phasers that came on a lot of 2005 cars were suffix number DA, these were subsequently followed by revisions EA, FA, GA and finally HA which is the current revised part if memory serves me. This phaser has had issues from the first cars that rolled off the line, and still even today we will get a bone stock car that has issues with the phasers making noise.

The real intent of the lockout is to eliminate any of these possible issues. It was not originally intended for power gains. In most cases a lot of the aftermarket cam profiles require a stiffer spring. Based on this, it seems apparent that without some modification to the phasers or switching to a fixed or adjustable gear that issues will arise. We offer the lockouts in two different versions because we have seen in some testing that higher hp cars that make more power with a slight bit of retard going on. In most cases though, as with any changes in cam timing the results tend to depend on the specific combination instead of one generalized rule.

We have gone with the standard lockout for about 98% of applications and always had good results. The increase in throttle response is also noticalbe and is a nice side effect. But again the purpose of the lockouts is not as much a power related issue as it is a durability related one. Like previous posters have listed, there can be disasterous results in certain applications when the phasers are left as stock. We have seen this ourselves as well. Usually this will start off as a noise which gets progressivly worse. After a while if left unchecked this can result of failure of the phaser and corresponding engine damage. This is why we made these lockouts. They were a simple solution to a problem that we and others were having with the phasers.

As far as where to degree cams in when using the lockouts that would be something that I would get with the specific maker of the camshaft for. Whatever they tell you is probably where you ought to start out at.

I am not sure if this info helped anybody or not. I can always answer specific questions if needed just let me know and I will do what I can to help.

Thanks

Mike

[05mustang_TT_charged]

Originally Posted by 05roush0090 Anyone using BBR products. They seem to be the most aggressive as far as Cams I like their stage 2 cams, sound nice and mean. I read on another forum though that they were originally using regrinds and they were not working out well in the long run. I have seen that they now offer new grinds so I am assuming the new grinds would be safe to use correct? I am thinking about the following set-up. But wanted to get the advice of some people with the BBR products first. Tell me what you think. C&L racer intake----Get it bbk 62mm TB----Don't waste your time with it, Get a factory GT500 one steeda uD pulleys----Get it steeda race delete plates----Get it Kooks LTw highflow catted X----Get it BBR ported Heads----No, Livernois Stage 3 outflows all others BBR stg.2 cams----Get it, awesome sound 4.10s----If staying NA or Centrifugal Supercharger or Turbo spec stg. 3 clutch----Get the 3+ a little extra money but worth it and make sure it is an 11" che LCAs----Get it che UCA----Get it che panhard rod

----Get it

Originally Posted by 05roush0090 Thanks, I seen he had some trouble tuning it. was it a hard tune or was it mechanical error, couldnt really tell from the post for sure. It was the missing cam phasers that did me in.The TB and cams are worth it as an upgrade. 500hp to the crank or RWHP?

With out FI, I would say crank

Originally Posted by 05roush0090 I was about to ask that next. How about the BAP and 39lb injectors. you think that would be sufficient and reliable?

I have a set of 39lbs injectors you can have. BAP works fine and reliable.

Originally Posted by 05roush0090 they are offering new grind billet cams now also. I think I will go with the new grind cam. You know any thing about the cam phaser lockouts? I hear they prevent alot ofthe VCT issues with the more aggressive cams. I am not sure on how the work though, can you explain it a little better?

The Billet are $999 and regrind are $650. I went with the Billet since they had a set on the shelf for someone else. If you want the billet they are usually a 2 week wait. I have seen plenty of people running the regrinds with out any problems but you do have to put a shim under the lifter

Originally Posted by 07stanggt Explain it in what way? they are basically disableing the VCT right? locking the cam phaser in fully retarded or fully advanced posisition. To avoid clearance issues cuased by vavle float with the vct and aftermarket cams.

I also have a set of the Livernois Lock outs I can sell you for $25. I used the lock out hub from BBR which was $385. The Livernois ones only let you do a full retard or full advance of the cams. The hub lets you degree the cams in which BBR recommends but not completely necessary. They have plenty of people running the cams and stiffer valve springs and still using the VCT. You can easily pick up 25 rwhp and as much torque by playing with the VCT when tuning. I just preferred not to hassel with any of it for my build. The tune is as simple as going into the VCT tables and zeroing everything out.

[07stanggt]

Not trying to talk you in or out of any cams just thought id share the info i had since i spent the last 4 months shopping for cams.

here is a dyno sheet from bbr's website of a car with their stage II cams and heads. below that is my car with just NSR comp cams, also you could go to brenspeeds site, they have two different dyno sheets for comp stage III nsr cams one on a manual and one on a automatic. if you google it you could find two more dyno sheets that i found what i was looking that have about the same results on the comp cams.

I always wondered why bbr says they average 275 with those heads and cams, but post a dyno sheet of a car making 250? even if it did make 275, is the added cost of the springs, heads, and labor worth 25? that has to total at least 4000 for 25hp.

Maybe they could explain all that, just thought id throw it out there.

[05roush0090]

Originally Posted by 05mustang_kb_charged ---- I have a set of 39lbs injectors you can have. BAP works fine and reliable. I also have a set of the Livernois Lock outs I can sell you for $25. I used the lock out hub from BBR which was $385. The Livernois ones only let you do a full retard or full advance of the cams. The hub lets you degree the cams in which BBR recommends but not completely necessary. They have plenty of people running the cams and stiffer valve springs and still using the VCT. You can easily pick up 25 rwhp and as much torque by playing with the VCT when tuning. I just preferred not to hassel with any of it for my build. The tune is as simple as going into the VCT tables and zeroing everything out.

Does BBr say what degree to set the cams at?

[05roush0090]

Perhaps I should just get a blower and some suspension. Looking like I could save a little cash that way. I love the sound of a nice lopey cam though. Why cant the prices come down on the ported heads and cams!!! Perhaps they will before I get the cash saved up, if not I might be after a Kenne Belle and some suspension mods.

[aleykat271]

If your thinking Supercharger,I would recomend the Whipple....check it out....

Originally Posted by 05roush0090 Perhaps I should just get a blower and some suspension. Looking like I could save a little cash that way. I love the sound of a nice lopey cam though. Why cant the prices come down on the ported heads and cams!!! Perhaps they will before I get the cash saved up, if not I might be after a Kenne Belle and some suspension mods.