[nusrethodzic]

i was wondering wat is the 0-60 of these gears differnce

[Oddball]

its answered some of my questions about changing out the rearend on my '08 GT. I've also got the 3.31 gears and while the car is quite peppy, I think going to 3.73 would make a big difference. Its mostly a fun car, but I'd still like decent highway mileage. Although I haven't verified this with pencil and paper, the onboard computer says I'm getting close to 27 mpg at 70 mph (~2000 rpm) on the highway. That's as good as my '91 Honda daily driver gets on the highway. I've already added the Hurst short throw shifter and what a difference, shifts feel more solid and are of course quicker. I also just added a K&N CAI two days ago and can tell a difference in throttle response and acceleration. I know it would depend somewhat on the brand and design, but how much HP could I expect to gain by adding a good set of headers so the stang can exhale as easily as she's inhaling now with the CAI?

[TheUNZippee!]

nusreth, probably about 2 or 3 tenths off your 0-60 depending on the day, track surface, and driving skill.

Oddball welcome to MM. Long tube headers are good for about 15 horse at the wheels, a few more when combined with a good x or h pipe or Mac Prochamber.

[Oddball]

but what exactly does that do vs. just a straight pipe back to the muffler on each side? Does it somehow equalize pressure or give some other benefit over separate pipes? Please forgive my ignorance. Its been too long since I've had a high performance car to play with, and I've forgotten much of what I used to know on the subject.

[TheUNZippee!]

I quote this from a website, since it explains it better than I can. It's about proper balance and flow.


"There has been an enormous amount of press about getting more out of performance exhaust systems. By incorporating "cross-over" or "X"- pipes in dual pipe systems, to balance out flow, many enthusiasts have found an extra edge. However, the perception is that this is new technology. Nothing could be further from the truth. But, why is an "X" pipe better than an "H"?
The reason an X-Pipe crossover works better than an H-pipe crossover isn't more flow because of volume, but more effective use of exhaust gas velocity. Exhaust gas (or air) has surface tension, and flows much like liquid would through the same pipe system. As the cylinders of each bank on a "V" style motor fire, they create a pulse in the system. The pulses will alternate back and forth from bank to bank as the motor runs. With multiple cylinders, such as a V-8, the eight cylinders alternately fire creates lots of pulses in the system.
If you put your hand behind the tailpipe, it would feel like a constant flow of air, but what it really is a lot of singular pulses giving the impression of constant flow. The idea behind the H and X style crossover is to unite the two banks of cylinders for better exhaust gas scavenging. Instead of two separate banks of four cylinders doing their own work, the crossover uses the pulse created by a firing cylinder of one bank to create a vacuum in the other bank because of surface tension. When a cylinder of the other bank is ready to fire, instead of the piston having to force the exhaust gas out of the cylinder, the vacuum that was created by the other cylinder bank helps suck the exhaust gas out of the cylinder, hence the term "scavenging."
Whenever you can reduce the load on an internal combustion engine, you are likely going to see performance and efficiency benefits. The difference between an H and X crossover is a smoother path for the exhaust gas to follow. Exhaust gas, like a liquid, will follow a path with the least amount of resistance. An H crossover has a path with two sharp 90-degree angles that are close together. An X crossover has a path with a much more gradual bend to allow the exhaust gases to continue their path back out to the ends of the tailpipes, rather then turning sideways for a short distance, then turn again to head out the tailpipes. Smooth flow with high velocity means more power by use of scavenging. Using an exhaust system with too large of piping diameter work against scavenging in the same way that running an exhaust with too small of tubing chokes the motor and forces it to work harder to expel the exhaust gases."

[Oddball]

to have gotten that article copied and ready to post that quickly :-) Thanks, that's kinda what I thought the explanation would be, but it said it better than what I was thinking.

[TheUNZippee!]

Anytime man, glad to help

[07Bullitt]

this helps me out alot! thanks for posting this, i think im gonna go with 3.73's since i eventually want a KB.

[thlsislt]

the new mustangs 06+ and above have better rpm's during highway driving then my scion tc. since reading this post i did some research myself and was comparing the numbers to the mustang numbers that you have posted here earlier. see below.

mustang
------------------------------------3.27's-------------3.73's-------------4.10's
rpm @ 80 MPH in 5th gear---{2,122-------------2,421--------------2,661
rpm @ 60 MPH in 5th gear---{1,591-------------1,815--------------1,996
rpm @ 40 MPH in 5th gear---{1,061-------------1,210--------------1,331
rpm @ 40 MPH in 4th gear---{1,711-------------1,952--------------2,146


2007 scion tc -(stock 2.4L 4 banger)
rpm @ 40 MPH in 3rd gear-------------------------3,000
rpm @ 40 MPH in 4th gear-------------------------2,400
rpm @ 50 MPH in 3rd gear-------------------------4,000
rpm @ 50 MPH in 4th gear-------------------------2,800
rpm @ 50 Mph in 5th gear-------------------------2,200
rpm @ 60 MPH in 4th gear-------------------------3,500
rpm @ 60 MPH in 5th gear-------------------------2,750
rpm @ 70 MPH in 5th gear-------------------------3,100

no wonder why you guys love these mustangs. the gears are sweet and the base horsepower and the potential to add power is endless.

[07Bullitt]

^american muscle baby!! though i have seen a couple of those scions at the track runnin 12's with turbo's which is impressive.

[leebunnyz]

Originally Posted by thlsislt the new mustangs 06+ and above have better rpm's during highway driving then my scion tc. since reading this post i did some research myself and was comparing the numbers to the mustang numbers that you have posted here earlier. see below. mustang ------------------------------------3.27's-------------3.73's-------------4.10's rpm @ 80 MPH in 5th gear---{2,122-------------2,421--------------2,661 rpm @ 60 MPH in 5th gear---{1,591-------------1,815--------------1,996 rpm @ 40 MPH in 5th gear---{1,061-------------1,210--------------1,331 rpm @ 40 MPH in 4th gear---{1,711-------------1,952--------------2,146 2007 scion tc -(stock 2.4L 4 banger) rpm @ 40 MPH in 3rd gear-------------------------3,000 rpm @ 40 MPH in 4th gear-------------------------2,400 rpm @ 50 MPH in 3rd gear-------------------------4,000 rpm @ 50 MPH in 4th gear-------------------------2,800 rpm @ 50 Mph in 5th gear-------------------------2,200 rpm @ 60 MPH in 4th gear-------------------------3,500 rpm @ 60 MPH in 5th gear-------------------------2,750 rpm @ 70 MPH in 5th gear-------------------------3,100 no wonder why you guys love these mustangs. the gears are sweet and the base horsepower and the potential to add power is endless.

but whats your average highway MPG?

[thlsislt]

my average mpg for the highway is 27 mpg. it is advertised at 30 but it's not.

as far as the scions running 12's. you can do that but they are having a problem with the engine internals and the bearings to be specific. plus the stock block can only handle 500 hp, and to obtain the 500 hp you have to change the bottom end, port and polish the head and add a shit tone of fuel. then they aren't good for daily driving. that is the reason i joined this forum. i wanted to do research on the next car that i want, which is a new mustang gt. what i've gained so far is that the scion block can take only 500 hp but you have switch everything else. some parts are extremely expensive and have to be custom made. to get a scion to 500 hp it will cost me over $12,000. then the engine isn't reliable.

the mustang gt's block max's at 1000hp and the parts are unlimited and not that much price difference in the parts. you can get a bold on s/c and run 11's with some tuning all day and it will still be reliable.

the mpg difference still isn't that drastic of a difference to make me think twice.

so i'll be converting to the gt's.

[leebunnyz]

Originally Posted by thlsislt my average mpg for the highway is 27 mpg. it is advertised at 30 but it's not. as far as the scions running 12's. you can do that but they are having a problem with the engine internals and the bearings to be specific. plus the stock block can only handle 500 hp, and to obtain the 500 hp you have to change the bottom end, port and polish the head and add a shit tone of fuel. then they aren't good for daily driving. that is the reason i joined this forum. i wanted to do research on the next car that i want, which is a new mustang gt. what i've gained so far is that the scion block can take only 500 hp but you have switch everything else. some parts are extremely expensive and have to be custom made. to get a scion to 500 hp it will cost me over $12,000. then the engine isn't reliable. the mustang gt's block max's at 1000hp and the parts are unlimited and not that much price difference in the parts. you can get a bold on s/c and run 11's with some tuning all day and it will still be reliable. the mpg difference still isn't that drastic of a difference to make me think twice. so i'll be converting to the gt's.

wow...i get from 24-26 Highway, you would think a 4cyl toyota would get like much more then that. Tc's look nice but now they seem pretty worthless, not having any power and the gas mielage still isnt as good as it should be. Well you get that GT and dont look back.

[zangus]

My GT is a daily driver and I was thinking of getting 4.10's to start the modding... Not so sure now. Maybe the 373 would be better.

As for what power adder, I am going to go cheap. Up until the last month or so I was dead set on getting a SC, but the money is too much to justify when you have kids and a mortgage.

I am going to get nitrous instead. Zex has a nice kit. You just arm it (plug in to lighter in console box). The actual Nitrous doesn't hit unless you floor it. It has a processor that turns it on automatically when armed at wide open throttle. It has nozzles that let you adjust from 100-250hp. So this way the car drives the same as it does all the time unless you arm the juice and floor it. No worries about the girl friend fishtailing it at a light! But the nicest thing is the price! 10% of a supercharger!

[HMUSN]

Welcome to the forums.
Juice is addictive.
You will spend your money on bottle refills

[zangus]

That's fine with me! At least it isnt all at once! It may take me awhile to spend 6 or 7 grand worth of nitrous tho, lol.

[joshthegreatest07]

these work very nice with my driving style

[EfylSetaf]

Originally Posted by leebunnyz wow...i get from 24-26 Highway, you would think a 4cyl toyota would get like much more then that. Tc's look nice but now they seem pretty worthless, not having any power and the gas mielage still isnt as good as it should be. Well you get that GT and dont look back.

Yeah, I've got a tc I'm trading in on a Mustang GT as well, and the gearing on the Tc's is... well... it was probably chosen by Toyota to get the best 0-60 times. At 30mph in 2nd gear you're doing about 3,500 rpms. At 80mph in 5th gear you're about 3,500 rpms. The bad part is front tire spin in 1st in any kind of wet weather. I'm sure better tires would fix it, but... meh.

The best I ever got on the highway was about 27. I had a log for the first year of owning it and averaged about 21-22mpg with a good mix of city and highway. I guess it depends on 4cyls too. The Tc is a larger 4cyl than most economy hatchbacks - but it's not marketed as an economy hatch.

The gearing issue on the Scion is why the first two things I'm going to do internally on my new Mustang GT are Spydershaft and 4.10s. Not sure which will be first. A V8 sounds sexy as all get out at 3,500 rpms. A V4 sounds like the biggest damn mosquito is trying to bite your ankles - I'm sure people like it, but they must be people with questionable music tastes as well....

[Mrbonesaw]

Originally Posted by EfylSetaf Yeah, I've got a tc I'm trading in on a Mustang GT as well, and the gearing on the Tc's is... well... it was probably chosen by Toyota to get the best 0-60 times. At 30mph in 2nd gear you're doing about 3,500 rpms. At 80mph in 5th gear you're about 3,500 rpms. The bad part is front tire spin in 1st in any kind of wet weather. I'm sure better tires would fix it, but... meh. The best I ever got on the highway was about 27. I had a log for the first year of owning it and averaged about 21-22mpg with a good mix of city and highway. I guess it depends on 4cyls too. The Tc is a larger 4cyl than most economy hatchbacks - but it's not marketed as an economy hatch. The gearing issue on the Scion is why the first two things I'm going to do internally on my new Mustang GT are Spydershaft and 4.10s. Not sure which will be first. A V8 sounds sexy as all get out at 3,500 rpms. A V4 sounds like the biggest damn mosquito is trying to bite your ankles - I'm sure people like it, but they must be people with questionable music tastes as well....

+1 for getting shafted with the 4.10's best SOTP mod combo for sure!!!

[mramx390]

Thank you sir, very informative. I went with the 3.73s for the best of both worlds, so to speak. Do any of you have a recomendation for a blower? I prefer a roots-type blower for my 2007 and the dealership I bought my GT from said they would install a Saleen blower and I get to keep my warranty. All for the tidy sum of $4,800.00. What a deal !