[03snakeminated]

just want a ball-park figure on how much that's going to cost me labor and all, need to decide if its worthy for the weight redux and added benefits of a solid rear axle, also was thinking about the tubular suspension, how much weight reduction and ride quality, all in all I need to put this fat s.o.b in a diet without going in the interior, but prob will start doing the cheapest mods first

[acidtonic]

Originally Posted by 03snakeminated just want a ball-park figure on how much that's going to cost me labor and all, need to decide if its worthy for the weight redux and added benefits of a solid rear axle, also was thinking about the tubular suspension, how much weight reduction and ride quality, all in all I need to put this fat s.o.b in a diet without going in the interior, but prob will start doing the cheapest mods first

Why not start with a 96-98 Cobra instead? You're pretty much building the same car except you paid more for the useless parts you're swapping out. If you're not staying stock why do you need the blower, iron block, or IRS? Not to mention the newer electronic cluster, or the crappy returnless fuel system.

Grab a 96-98, forge it and upgrade the fuel system. Its a lot easier and cheaper. It'd be lighter, faster, and pretty much be the same car you have now but with a return system, SLA, and alum block.

Just my 2c.

[03snakeminated]

yeah that kinda makes sense, but in my case I like the termies,
1st: stock bottom end can hold gobs of power, so I love the engine
2nd: t56 viper tranny can hold upwards of 8-900 hp
3rd: I like the way 03-04 looks, not saying 96-98 aren't badass looking, but that's just subjective
4th: its a newer car, (still have ext warranty)and had to justify upgrading from my previous 94stang gt, 96-98 cobra isn't much of an upgrade. if I were mechanicly incline I would have kept my old 94 and had upgrade it same way a 96-98 cobra, but that's just me, all I say is as long as I don't have to go inside the motor I can pretty much do, I installed a powerdyne in the 94gt and I can tackle a whipple upgrade in the cobra, but to each his own, if a 96-98 its what you like go for it, and build the crap out of it, all in all is a cobra

[killerSVTcobra]

I have about 2000-2200 into my whole swap with all new components.
got the axle kit( 99-04 gt housing, 31 spline axles, all bearings/shims, t-lock) from speedconcepts.net-$1400
steeda springs, upper/ lower control arms-$400 or so
cobra rear brake bracket kit-$185
cheap monroe shocks $18 ea

[03snakeminated]

does it really feel like a 150lbs reduction?, i know in the track is where the game is on

[acidtonic]

Originally Posted by 03snakeminated does it really feel like a 150lbs reduction?, i know in the track is where the game is on

I notice a difference when 30lbs is pulled. You should definitely feel 150lbs.

Of course it depends on where it is too and weight in the back will be felt less than weight up front, just like higher weight would be felt better than removing lower weight.

(by high and low I mean distance from the ground, thus changing center of gravity)

As for you liking Termis thats fine, never knocked the car. Just that all those drivers tend to build my car through swapping. I have a sub 3000lb aluminum block car with a SLA. I paid $13,500. How much will a similar termi run? Easier just to forge mine and if you have to; throw a T56 in there.

Just pointing out how the benefits of the termi pretty much get removed one piece at a time by their owners.... They eventually end up with my car, except much heavier.... Yet the 96-98 is just horrible to start with!

[C MY 4D]

Originally Posted by acidtonic I notice a difference when 30lbs is pulled. You should definitely feel 150lbs. Of course it depends on where it is too and weight in the back will be felt less than weight up front, just like higher weight would be felt better than removing lower weight. (by high and low I mean distance from the ground, thus changing center of gravity) As for you liking Termis thats fine, never knocked the car. Just that all those drivers tend to build my car through swapping. I have a sub 3000lb aluminum block car with a SLA. I paid $13,500. How much will a similar termi run? Easier just to forge mine and if you have to; throw a T56 in there. Just pointing out how the benefits of the termi pretty much get removed one piece at a time by their owners.... They eventually end up with my car, except much heavier.... Yet the 96-98 is just horrible to start with!

If your car is God's gift, why is it still so slow?



03snakeminated where are you located?

[03snakeminated]

west palm beach

[99blkcobra]

i felt the difference on my car, pulled alot better. and it slid sideways on drag radials, never done that before

[C MY 4D]

Originally Posted by 03snakeminated west palm beach

Well your cheapest option is to find someone with a straight axle setup and trade the IRS for the SRA plus cash. If you can find someone that has built the SRA, even better. The swap its self isn't that bad. It can be done just about by anyone within a day. Mine took me 2 hours on a lift with airtools.

[acidtonic]

Originally Posted by C MY 4D If your car is God's gift, why is it still so slow? 03snakeminated where are you located?

I think you were joking but either way, I really never said my car was better than anyone elses car here. Hell if I owned a different year, say an 03 and you asked this question I'd still say 96-98. Has nothing to do with "my" car but rather "the" car. Its a platform and frankly I think its dumb to buy all these parts you dont need just to make it nearly identical to the configuration of a cheaper model that's easy to find on the same general platform. Hell its the same car practically. Why pay 15-20K instead of 4-10K then pay hundreds more to make it into the 4-10K setup?

If you like the car and have any kind of personal bias, sure its 100% cool because you chose. But why pretend its the god only because some pistons came forged? Is that really worth all the extra hassle, weight, and cost? If you leave it stock then sure, not everyone cares to muck around that much and the 03/04 really is the fastest stock stang for a minor gear head. But if you want a SLA 32v return-style Cobra, then buy one.

Just my opinions nicely summed up. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I just want factual information considered. I'm not trying to have one "win" over the other, they both are tools to do a different job.

[C MY 4D]

Originally Posted by acidtonic I think you were joking but either way, I really never said my car was better than anyone elses car here. Hell if I owned a different year, say an 03 and you asked this question I'd still say 96-98. Has nothing to do with "my" car but rather "the" car. Its a platform and frankly I think its dumb to buy all these parts you dont need just to make it nearly identical to the configuration of a cheaper model that's easy to find on the same general platform. Hell its the same car practically. Why pay 15-20K instead of 4-10K then pay hundreds more to make it into the 4-10K setup? If you like the car and have any kind of personal bias, sure its 100% cool because you chose. But why pretend its the god only because some pistons came forged? Is that really worth all the extra hassle, weight, and cost? If you leave it stock then sure, not everyone cares to muck around that much and the 03/04 really is the fastest stock stang for a minor gear head. But if you want a SLA 32v return-style Cobra, then buy one. Just my opinions nicely summed up. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I just want factual information considered. I'm not trying to have one "win" over the other, they both are tools to do a different job.

We have had this conversation before. You can't buy an older 4v Cobra and bring it to the same performance level as the 03 and 04s, for less money than the initial investment of the termis. The only thing the old Cobras have going for them is the block. The rods, pistons, heads, cams, ecu, fuel system, trans, and rear end are all junk. Then its still missing the power adder. You continue to think that the older cars have a huge weight advantage but the extra weight in the 03-04s are all needed to make or hold the extra power. If you chose to add a blower setup or a trans that could hold the power, yours would weigh just as much as the newer ones.
The returnless system isn't bad, it just gets pricey when you begin to make gobs of power.

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by C MY 4D The rods, pistons, heads, cams, ecu, fuel system, trans, and rear end are all junk.

I'll give you the trans, rods and pistons, I don't know enough about the cam or ecu to say either way, the fuel system on the Termie needs to be upgraded too, but the rear end?

How is the Cobra 8.8" straight axle considered junk?

[C MY 4D]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter I'll give you the trans, rods and pistons, I don't know enough about the cam or ecu to say either way, the fuel system on the Termie needs to be upgraded too, but the rear end? How is the Cobra 8.8" straight axle considered junk?

The guts, out of the whole rear suspension the only thing that usually stays is the housing.

How is the termi fuel system inferior to the 96-98s?

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by C MY 4D The guts, out of the whole rear suspension the only thing that usually stays is the housing. How is the termi fuel system inferior to the 96-98s?

Didn't say it was inferior, just that high hp guys end up replacing it anyway.

Which I think is the point Acid is going towards. When you look at what all the high hp Termie guys swap out, you didn't have to start with a termie to get where they are. Stock or mildly modified, yes, a Terminator is a better choice, no one is arguing that point. It's just the guys that get into major modification, where they're replacing the internals, blower, rear end, cams, ecu, etc, why pay extra for the '03?

[C MY 4D]

Sure if your building a 7 second drag radial car you're right. But he is talking about the street driven ones. The ones that make 600hp max. He has trolled this forum ever since he got here trying to talk people out of buying 03-04 and buying the older turds. What he doesn't seem to understand is that it will require more money to build a 96-98 to the level of a stock 03 cobra in power, strength and potential than it would be to just buy a 03.

[acidtonic]

Originally Posted by C MY 4D Sure if your building a 7 second drag radial car you're right. But he is talking about the street driven ones. The ones that make 600hp max. He has trolled this forum ever since he got here trying to talk people out of buying 03-04 and buying the older turds. What he doesn't seem to understand is that it will require more money to build a 96-98 to the level of a stock 03 cobra in power, strength and potential than it would be to just buy a 03.

I'm not talking about just the street. I AM talking about people switching rear ends, motors, internals, blowers, fuel systems, adding cages, etc. And people running way over 600rwhp.....

In fact you'll be investing in a blower anyway to break past 600rwhp even with a termi. I'm talking about in the long run over an almost completely rebuilt car why would you need that Iron block, IRS, returnless system, eaton, and T56?

Why not start out with Aluminum block, SLA, return system, and T45? I mean you already were going to buy another blower, so starting with one was pointless and you cant sell it for much. You would swap the IRS to SLA which is going to cost you more. And you will STILL be heavier due to nearly 100lb heavier block. 100lbs isnt much but when you start maxing out everything else it means the lighter car is faster and isnt that what everyone keeps talking about.

If 100lbs doesnt matter much then tell that to the guys shaving freaking bolts and body parts just to save a few pounds. Proven fact removing weight is a linear increase in speed, where adding power has diminishing returns on your ET.

I never trolled anyway its a conversation which has a right answer and a wrong one. If you're going through the whole car anyway you dont need all that extra shit.

In stock trim the termi has 185~ lb heavier rear end (which is not better IMO) 95~ lb heavier block, not sure of exact weight but heavier tranny too. They also have the pedal recall, head cooling recall, and still many people rebuild the motor anyway because they want a different comp ratio/ or piston to wall clearance, or updated valve train. Some just want it blueprinted and bored/stroked or whatever. Point being even many termi guys tear into the motor at which point having it forged from the beginning was not quite so necessary.

All said and done I'd rather do that expensive block work to an aluminum block proven to hold well over 1000hp, and make similar power with 100lbs less. If you're going to redo the rear then start building on that 8.8. If you're going to get a better blower, why start with a crappy one that limits you to roughly 500rwhp give or take for people making more. You have to touch the fuel system anyway with either car but at least the 96-98 is return style and needs less fuel system work. Many 03/04 guys are playing around with better/lighter/larger intercoolers, why start with a lessor one? Even to keep using the IRS you have to pay all kinds of cash to brace it and stop the hop for higher power applications.

Talking about potential there are two types of potential. 1 being bolt on potential, and the other maximum potential. I'm not debating the fact that the 03/04 has AWESOME bolt on potential. For little to nothing you can crank out some sweet numbers. Longer term with that block is also pretty wicked. I think the 96-98 has much worse bolt on potential, but a slightly better long term but only if you aren't scared of forging it. Otherwise without planning to forge I'd never recommend the 96-98.

I just think you guys pretend like you will never touch it but end up tearing the whole car apart and eventually ending up with something a 96-98 car was more suited to become. If you just want to buy a fast daily without plans for work BUY A FREAKING TERMI. I'm not trying to push the 96-98 car on anyone. If you have plans to build a nearly identical car I'm just saying to buy one.

[futureMACH1racer]

Acid Tonic, by the time you get done building that car, I'll take my heavier Mach, and still beat you, and I'll invest half of the money, time, and my car will be more comfortable to drive.

You have great ideas, but you're applying them in the wrong direction. If I were you I'd take that engine out, and take it to Paul's High Performance or Modular Performance and tell them to make you a badass street car. They'll build it, and you might spend $15k, but at least you'll be able to go out enjoy your car.

Sure the weight savings is great, but where do you plan on racing this car? and that T-45 won't last, they're weak.

[03snakeminated]

I think if I wanted a mustang mostly for the track I would of bought myself a fox-body stang 87-93, those are light, best bang for the buck and would had build that, instead of any sn-95, on the other hand (that's where I come in) for street driven, 600hp reliable setup, best f'king sounding exhaust imo a termi is the best choice, shit even a mach1, not putting all the other stangs down but anything in between 94-98, and some 99-2002 don't want to say p.o.crap or waste or wth ford was thinking, but not the best platform to start with, in my opinion..

[acidtonic]

Originally Posted by 03snakeminated I think if I wanted a mustang mostly for the track I would of bought myself a fox-body stang 87-93, those are light, best bang for the buck and would had build that, instead of any sn-95, on the other hand (that's where I come in) for street driven, 600hp reliable setup, best f'king sounding exhaust imo a termi is the best choice, shit even a mach1, not putting all the other stangs down but anything in between 94-98, and some 99-2002 don't want to say p.o.crap or waste or wth ford was thinking, but not the best platform to start with, in my opinion..

Great explanation. I hear you man.

As for FM1R's comment, I'm not even building or working on my car right now of course your heavier car would win. Somehow these conversations always have people saying their car is faster. I never once have said here that my car is faster than anyone elses. I'm running a stock unboosted motor with only weight reduction. Of course its going to be slower.

I'm going to forge mine soon, and most likely go single or twin turbo. Somehow voicing an opinion here means people need to say you're right or wrong. I'm not trying to say anything like that, just my personal opinion for someone really tearing into the car would be 96-98.

I rest my case.