[acidtonic]

Just recently I changed my oil like usual, did nothing fancy or different.

Mobile 1 Synthetic, 5w20 like always. Replaced the filter too.

1000 miles on the dot later, the car feels rough at WOT and like its due for an oil change. I think maybe its low so I check it and its perfectly filled. A quick sniff of the dipstick and I can smell gas.

So I buy oil and a new filter today, changed the oil and when it was draining I definitely noticed more of a fuel smell. I heard someone say to try lighting the dipstick with a lighter to check for lots of fuel, and it didnt light.

Yet I know something is wrong here for sure. Car doesnt have any drivability issues, idles fine, pulls great under WOT. I did have a rarely occuring hesitation from 3000 rpm but definitely nothing like a miss so bad it would pollute the oil in 1000 miles.

I heard my neighbor mention it could be the O-Rings leaking for my spark plugs? I dont think that sounds right at all to me and the sparkplugs were changed recently (11K miles ago) and I never before had this issue and ran 3500 miles on the last oil change and it didnt smell like this.

I dont have any CELs since I already thought TPS could be the issue, but its working fine.

I dont want to lose my motor as this is my DD, what the hell is going on here? I have some guesses but I'd love to hear your opinions.

[ReverendDexter]

Fuel can only come from one place, right? And that's the injectors. That would be my main suspect until proved otherwise.

[wraitherx]

^+1, i would check to see that your injectors are functioning properly. Also, check to make sure your pump is cutting off when you cut the car off. My old fox had the relay go bad and kept the pump on even when the car was off and I smelt gas all over the place.

[acidtonic]

Pump is surely going off. I can hear it reprime when I turn the ignition.

Wouldnt injectors cause a driving issue? It literally drives fine. Like stock, no issues, no bucking, no variable idle, just smooth 4v all around.

I heard FPR, Injectors, Rings (god i hope not), missfire, bad coils, bad plug wire, spark finding a better ground under load, bad gap (doubtful), fuel filter?, valve float...

What order do you think I should start checking everything out? I want to find this quickly since fuel in oil can mess up my bearings and what not. Not to mention constantly changing the oil is going to get expensive.

[wraitherx]

start off with your injectors, filter, o rings, connectors (fuel line to fuel rail). Bad coils, plugs wires, spark finding better ground, and better gap would make the motor have driveability issues that you would be able to tell if not throw a code.

[wraitherx]

also check to see what your fuel pressure is at. Get a gauge and check it out.

[ReverendDexter]

All fuel coming into the motor has to come through the injectors.

Maybe they're not holding closed when the car is off, allowing the fuel rail to depressurize into the intake, down through the cylinders, and into the oilpan?

You wouldn't see any drivability issues, as they would work properly when the car is operating. Pretty much everything else you've mentioned would lead to drivability issues.

Occams' razor, man: check the cheapest, easiest, most "obvious" stuff first. Spark plugs are the easiest and injectors have the highest probability of being the cause, so I'd make sure both of those were good before tearing in to anything further.

[wraitherx]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter All fuel coming into the motor has to come through the injectors. Maybe they're not holding closed when the car is off, allowing the fuel rail to depressurize into the intake, down through the cylinders, and into the oilpan? You wouldn't see any drivability issues, as they would work properly when the car is operating. Pretty much everything else you've mentioned would lead to drivability issues. Occams' razor, man: check the cheapest, easiest, most "obvious" stuff first. Spark plugs are the easiest and injectors have the highest probability of being the cause, so I'd make sure both of those were good before tearing in to anything further.

yeah difenitely check the easiest stuff first. And I was pretty much saying to check the easy stuff first and that the others (plugs, coils, plug wires) would let him feel it if not throw a code

[acidtonic]

Well I guess I'll start with the injectors.... Probably the best place to look.

I dont currently have a fuel pressure gauge. Do you mean actual gauge in the car, or just something quick to go inline? To be honest I've never had to mess with fuel issues so I'm a bit curious how that works. Isnt there a connector on the rail to just plug in a guage which is different than a gauge install for permanent in car use correct?

Also for the injectors how do I test those? Is that a test by replacement route or can I use some electronics knowlege to test them out. I'm handy with electrical engineering stuff and can use a multimeter without issue.

[silverstang]

I'm no good with 4Vs but let me try to help. Anything I suggest just keep in mind I know almost NOTHING about the setup on a 4v, so it might be easy/hard to do, I dunno. Let the car set for a while (overnight) and pull the plugs and check for fuel in the cylinders if that is possible. Also a trick you can do (if possible) is pull the fuel rail off the car with the injectors still in it.......put small cups under the injectors and let them set for a while and see if any of the cups fill up with fuel (leaking injector). You would have to do that test when the fuel rail had some type of pressure (recently drove the car maybe)...................If any of these can't be easily done on a 4v easily, i'm sorry, correct me guys LOL.........Its just a few things that might help a guy out.

[acidtonic]

Everyone keeps instantly thinking its my rings when asking around here at work. (I work for Ford)

This scares the living crap out of me I must say. You guys think I most likely have a simpler issue with my 78K engine? Doesnt ring damage also have other symptoms like smoking, running rough etc?

God I hope this is something stupid and simple.

[wraitherx]

Originally Posted by acidtonic Well I guess I'll start with the injectors.... Probably the best place to look. I dont currently have a fuel pressure gauge. Do you mean actual gauge in the car, or just something quick to go inline? To be honest I've never had to mess with fuel issues so I'm a bit curious how that works. Isnt there a connector on the rail to just plug in a guage which is different than a gauge install for permanent in car use correct? Also for the injectors how do I test those? Is that a test by replacement route or can I use some electronics knowlege to test them out. I'm handy with electrical engineering stuff and can use a multimeter without issue.

you can test them out with a multi meter as they have a certain resistance to them... i can find out for you.

Originally Posted by silverstang I'm no good with 4Vs but let me try to help. Anything I suggest just keep in mind I know almost NOTHING about the setup on a 4v, so it might be easy/hard to do, I dunno. Let the car set for a while (overnight) and pull the plugs and check for fuel in the cylinders if that is possible. Also a trick you can do (if possible) is pull the fuel rail off the car with the injectors still in it.......put small cups under the injectors and let them set for a while and see if any of the cups fill up with fuel (leaking injector). You would have to do that test when the fuel rail had some type of pressure (recently drove the car maybe)...................If any of these can't be easily done on a 4v easily, i'm sorry, correct me guys LOL.........Its just a few things that might help a guy out.

what this OP listed is actually great ideas. The small cups thing is something that i would try as it will definetly tell you if one of the injectors is leaking.

[wraitherx]

Originally Posted by acidtonic Everyone keeps instantly thinking its my rings when asking around here at work. (I work for Ford) This scares the living crap out of me I must say. You guys think I most likely have a simpler issue with my 78K engine? Doesnt ring damage also have other symptoms like smoking, running rough etc? God I hope this is something stupid and simple.

lets stick with simple for now until we have ruled everything out...

[acidtonic]

I like the injector idea as well. I also heard from people that cleaning them has fixed missing and hesitation issues which my car does have although its really minor feeling.

Is there anything else involved to pull the injectors in terms of special tools or new parts? Like I said I'm a fuel system newb so I dont know if I need new seals/o-rings/consumable X to put them back on and not ruin anything.

Also is any amount of spillage in the cups considered a bad injector? Or do they leak somewhat normally and if the volume is small I'm still ok?

[wraitherx]

yeah it might work. its not har to pull them off at all. there should be 2 8mm bolts holding them to your manifold, take them off, pull straight up on the fuel rail and they should pop out. If they dont then try wiggling them out. Make sure that they are still plugged into the fuel rail so that you can do the test. Place each injector into a cup and let it sit overnight to see if anything has happened. They shouldnt leak at all. If you notice any of the rings on the top or bottom of the injector are bad go ahead and replace with new ones.

[acidtonic]

Cool well I'll pick up some styrofoam cups on the way home from work and we'll give this easy test a shot.

I'm about 60 miles into my new oil change, with a count of 3 drives meaning 3 different times the car has been up to pressure and let sit for more than a couple hours.

I already think I can start smelling fuel when I pulled my dipstick just now after getting back from lunch here at work. Its very light right now and hard to detect but I think I'm noticing it now. Might just be mixing with some left over in the crank but this leaking injector issue sounds like it could really be the cause.

I also heard that a ring related issue can be noticed more by switching to dyno oil and finding improvement on leakdown/oil cons./fuel in oil. But I'm going to shut up here about the rings because thats not my problem

[Mustang RacR94]

or your rings are going and your getting blow by down into your crackcase. I guess it's a little less uncommon.

[acidtonic]

Originally Posted by Mustang RacR94 or your rings are going and your getting blow by down into your crackcase. I guess it's a little less uncommon.

Ssssshhhhh!

Its not my rings. Nope. Its going to be something simple. I'm at 78K damnit shes too young to die.

[wraitherx]

Originally Posted by Mustang RacR94 or your rings are going and your getting blow by down into your crackcase. I guess it's a little less uncommon.

if we were to be realistic... it could be rings. But im being optimistic for Acid and saying that its something simple

[wraitherx]

oh, also dont use styrofoam... use plastic