differences in heads, which to buy?
Forums at Modded Mustangs
Home Register FAQ Members List Calendar Blogs Garage Gallery Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Insurance


Go Back   Forums at Modded Mustangs > Mustang Forums > Modular Mustangs > 4V / SVT

ModdedMustangs.com is the premier Ford Mustang Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old October 18th, 2009, 06:13 PM   #1
Enthusiast
 
94pacecarSVT's Avatar
 
1996 Mustang GT
11.2@122.36
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 656
94pacecarSVT is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 94pacecarSVT
Default

differences in heads, which to buy?


im looking to buy a set of 4v heads and need to know what the differences are in the 96-98 heads, 99-04 heads, and the navigator heads. the navi heads im looking at are off of a 2004 model.
__________________
black 96 gt w/ non pi motor, cai, built t45, built rear end w/ 3.73's, completely modded suspension, race radiator.....startin over.

www.rk-collection.com
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old October 19th, 2009, 12:53 AM   #2
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
Boostang's Avatar
 
1997 Mustang GT
11.01@128.32
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seale, Alabama
Posts: 1,748
Boostang will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Boostang
Default

96-98 is b head.. 99 and up is c head

boost: b head > c head

n/a: c head > b head
  Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 01:05 AM   #3
Enthusiast
 
94pacecarSVT's Avatar
 
1996 Mustang GT
11.2@122.36
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 656
94pacecarSVT is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 94pacecarSVT
Default

what kind of power could a 5.0 stroker with like a 9.6:1 comp ratio with nice cams and ported b heads make, with full bolt ons.
__________________
black 96 gt w/ non pi motor, cai, built t45, built rear end w/ 3.73's, completely modded suspension, race radiator.....startin over.

www.rk-collection.com
  Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 02:23 AM   #4
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
Boostang's Avatar
 
1997 Mustang GT
11.01@128.32
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seale, Alabama
Posts: 1,748
Boostang will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Boostang
Default

that comp is a little low to be n/a.. but id guess high 3's low 4's?
just a guesstimate
  Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 03:21 AM   #5
Enthusiast
 
94pacecarSVT's Avatar
 
1996 Mustang GT
11.2@122.36
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 656
94pacecarSVT is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 94pacecarSVT
Default

thats all im looking for n/a. i wanna put boost on it eventually but for now im just trying to make a strong n/a motor. i started this thread b/c im about to buy a set of b heads and wanted to know if i should wait and get c's. will the 99-01 intake work with b heads?
__________________
black 96 gt w/ non pi motor, cai, built t45, built rear end w/ 3.73's, completely modded suspension, race radiator.....startin over.

www.rk-collection.com
  Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 10:53 AM   #6
Zoolander
 
04 Cobra #2260/3768 1/820
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,568
Blog Entries: 1
Cricket is a name known to allCricket is a name known to allCricket is a name known to allCricket is a name known to allCricket is a name known to allCricket is a name known to all
iTrader: 5 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Cricket Send a message via MSN to Cricket
Default

if you want to boost it, make your build around boost, not around n/a now and boost later.
__________________
MM Cobra Club #18

Team Tini Racing

Originally Posted by BWAL09 View Post
don't fuck with cricket or you will get chirped. bitches.
Originally Posted by futureMACH1racer View Post
I don't know jack shit...
  Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 10:56 AM   #7
Enthusiast
 
98Cobra_sleeper's Avatar
 
1998 mustang cobra
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: pa
Posts: 581
98Cobra_sleeper is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

very true, you need to build to your end goal
__________________
HP twin turbo - 691hp/608tq with 15lbs huffed in.
  Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 01:25 PM   #8
Enthusiast
 
94pacecarSVT's Avatar
 
1996 Mustang GT
11.2@122.36
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 656
94pacecarSVT is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 94pacecarSVT
Default

i want a decent comp ratio. not super low because ill never run a ton of boost.
__________________
black 96 gt w/ non pi motor, cai, built t45, built rear end w/ 3.73's, completely modded suspension, race radiator.....startin over.

www.rk-collection.com
  Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 02:46 PM   #9
Regular
 
2001 mustang gt
N/A
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Indiana
Posts: 360
carnage will become famous soon enoughcarnage will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to carnage
Default

ok so let me get this strait the heads off the 96-98 are better for boost and the heads off the 99-04 are better for n/a
__________________
MM COBRA CLUB #69
  Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 05:47 PM   #10
Enthusiast
 
98Cobra_sleeper's Avatar
 
1998 mustang cobra
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: pa
Posts: 581
98Cobra_sleeper is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

yeah B heads make good high rpm hp, and C heads make better low end torque. Something cool i have 18cc pistons, i get 20mpg, and when i had the vortech supercharger on 15lbs of boost i made 460rwhp untuned. so you can have low compression and make good power on not a ton of boost.
__________________
HP twin turbo - 691hp/608tq with 15lbs huffed in.
  Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2009, 08:11 PM   #11
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
Boostang's Avatar
 
1997 Mustang GT
11.01@128.32
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Seale, Alabama
Posts: 1,748
Boostang will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Boostang
Default

no the 99-01 intake will not work on a b head.. its hard finding the 96-98 intakes.. there are some on craigslist.. i got mine for 135 shipped.. i know i got lucky
  Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 10:20 AM   #12
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
97 Cobra
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Royal Oak Michigan
Posts: 1,059
acidtonic will become famous soon enoughacidtonic will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

I also love the B heads due to being somewhat of an underdog head. Here is my book of a post explaining why.

They are the only head which has not been fully utilized in my opinion. The whole intake design and IMRCs really screwed those heads but boost easily gets around those issues.

Some people are building custom intakes with 2 fully separate runners for each port on the head. B heads actually have 2 ports per cylinder with each port using a dedicated intake valve. No other 4v head out is as large or setup like this. The fact that being a horribly matched combo on a head with crazy amounts of volume and still producing 305hp (only 15hp less than the much better matched 99+ setups) I'd say they have lots of potential.

Ford dropped the ball by having both ports use the same intake runner which just destroys the specific capabilities of each port. People building custom intakes are splitting off the two ports and giving each a separate runner tuned for a specific purpose. Like primaries with a long "torquey" runner for off the line performance and low end grunt, then the switch over to a short runner tuned for high horsepower. In the opinions of some of these builders the stock intake tries to only produce horsepower.

IMRCs were used to band-aid the fact that they have no variable length runner intake like the FR500 for C heads. Instead of shutting off the secondary ports by a butterfly they should have just used a proper intake.

The other major issue is only one of these ports has a fuel injector. So the one lacking has no fuel to clean it and tends to gum up very quickly which kills power. Just adding an injector bung to spray the secondary port fixes the gunk problem and gains 20hp or more without doing anything else.

So basically these heads have the capability to blow away any other 4v head possibly even the beloved R heads when the whole combo is actually matched for the heads. Right now the entire combo around them is just wrong for how these heads need to make power. Yet with all that stuff wrong they are not too far behind C heads in current mismatched form.

Sorry for the book but that’s my opinion on why I like these heads. People as we speak are working on fixing these issues and being so cheap and easy to find they might be a good choice for even an na motor in the coming years. I also think they sound much better than all the other 4v heads but that’s just my opinion.
__________________
Converted to the Dark Side.
06 Apex Silver Evolution IX GSR
- Turboback Exhaust, Tune
- Wideband O2, Trustz backlight gauges, Apexi turbo timer
- Stock wing, but soon to be wingless.
- Guessing 280-310 at the wheels.
02 Red Escape V6 4x4
  Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 06:37 PM   #13
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
'97'Cobra's Avatar
 
1997 Mustang Cobra
8.65@84mph
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 1,769
'97'Cobra has a spectacular aura about'97'Cobra has a spectacular aura about'97'Cobra has a spectacular aura about
iTrader: 2 reviews
Default

Wow that was the best write up i have ever read concerning 4v heads
someone stayed up late doing homework...
__________________

Originally Posted by BWAL09 View Post
i usually wave first, but if the guy is sexy and i'm drunk, i might lift up my shirt and flash him as well.
MM Cobra Club Member #61
  Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 10:14 PM   #14
Enthusiast
 
98Cobra_sleeper's Avatar
 
1998 mustang cobra
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: pa
Posts: 581
98Cobra_sleeper is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

is there a better intake in the works for these heads?
__________________
HP twin turbo - 691hp/608tq with 15lbs huffed in.
  Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 10:23 PM   #15
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
'97'Cobra's Avatar
 
1997 Mustang Cobra
8.65@84mph
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 1,769
'97'Cobra has a spectacular aura about'97'Cobra has a spectacular aura about'97'Cobra has a spectacular aura about
iTrader: 2 reviews
Default

i forgot were i saw it online but they make a "stage 2" intake it was like $600 or something close. Im trying to remember the site i want to say brothersperformance.com im not entirly sure though but its out there. I havent heard any reviews on head or seen it throw down numbers so im sceptical to just throw that kinda money at it.
__________________

Originally Posted by BWAL09 View Post
i usually wave first, but if the guy is sexy and i'm drunk, i might lift up my shirt and flash him as well.
MM Cobra Club Member #61
  Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 06:46 PM   #16
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
97 Cobra
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Royal Oak Michigan
Posts: 1,059
acidtonic will become famous soon enoughacidtonic will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Actually nothing exists currently but a company called sullivan is working on one which essentially is like the Duke Nukem Forever of car parts.

In other words its "been coming out soon" for like 10 years now maybe longer.

Many just mod the stock intake and make it into a short runner which can get you an easy 15-20rwhp without losing anything down low.

Also I want to clarify since it sounds like I wowed you guys about the B heads. Its all potential but nobody really has made the stuff needed to harness them. In 90% of non boosted builds they are the worst choice of head.

Even with all the issues they are actually great for boost you just need to port them and the intake. Since they flow like gutters already you will actually hurt things by just hacking away material and instead you need to leave the intake ports alone as they are large enough. Dont even smooth the rough surface on the primaries since that will hurt fuel atomization (mixing) but you can smooth out the secondaries if you never plan to spray fuel through them.

Instead smooth and polish the exhaust ports while making them slightly larger and fix the shape issues like short turn radius, delete the IMRCS, gasket and port match everything, and forge the bottom end. That will get you a very nice boosted setup but it will suck without boost.

If you dont plan to boost ever just go with a C head. The other thing about boosting is I never said what kind of boost. C heads rule the world of Roots/TwinScrew blowers since nobody makes an intercooler for the B headed versions. Only the C heads have enough room under the intake for an intercooler which is pretty much a requirement if you're boosting a forged setup and want to make any power.

Thats why you see less people using the B heads because tons of the mustang guys are all about the roots/ts blowers. Now if you're going centri or turbo..... grab and port some B's
__________________
Converted to the Dark Side.
06 Apex Silver Evolution IX GSR
- Turboback Exhaust, Tune
- Wideband O2, Trustz backlight gauges, Apexi turbo timer
- Stock wing, but soon to be wingless.
- Guessing 280-310 at the wheels.
02 Red Escape V6 4x4
  Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2009, 04:49 AM   #17
MM Fanatic
 
2003 gt
5.4 32v on the way
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Omaha
Posts: 3,945
DickH is just really niceDickH is just really niceDickH is just really niceDickH is just really niceDickH is just really nice
iTrader: 2 reviews
Default

wait wait... im retarded now, but why are B heads better for boost? how much more than C heads do they really make pound for pound?
__________________
Before asking a gearing related question click THIS link and enjoy all your saved time.

Click here for your tuning needs

My slow paced budget 5.4 dohc build
  Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2009, 09:34 AM   #18
MM's Orangest
 
Mach Boy's Avatar
 
2004 Mach 1 Mustang
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indy
Posts: 2,820
Blog Entries: 1
Mach Boy has a spectacular aura aboutMach Boy has a spectacular aura about
iTrader: 1 reviews
Default

There's also a difference between the Mark 8 B heads and the 96-98 Cobra Bs. The Cobra Bs are better.
__________________

360HP / 345TQ N/A
  Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2009, 02:01 PM   #19
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
97mustanggt's Avatar
 
97GT & 97Snake & 00L
T.B.A
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Richgrove, Ca
Posts: 2,196
97mustanggt will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

how do you shortrun tha 96-98 bheads to get that 15-20hp without loosing bottom end torque?
__________________

97 Cobra & 00 Lightning
Beauty & The Beast

I rev next to hybrids so they can hear me kill the environment

MM Cobra Club Member #77
MM Lightning Club Founder
  Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2009, 02:53 PM   #20
MM's Orangest
 
Mach Boy's Avatar
 
2004 Mach 1 Mustang
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Indy
Posts: 2,820
Blog Entries: 1
Mach Boy has a spectacular aura aboutMach Boy has a spectacular aura about
iTrader: 1 reviews
Default

^Any head for that matter?
__________________

360HP / 345TQ N/A
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools


Threads Similar to: differences in heads, which to buy?
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
looking to buy new heads any ideas? zsgardner87 Classic Mustangs 3 August 31st, 2008 10:54 PM
WHAT KINDA HEADS SHOULD I BUY BROKINARROW 5.0 Mustangs 31 October 18th, 2007 03:42 PM
WITCH HEADS TO BUY?? mike96gt 96-98 20 October 8th, 2007 11:15 PM
Time to buy cyl. heads JBIGBOOTSY 5.0 Mustangs 18 February 15th, 2007 01:18 AM
differences FastBack71 5.0 Mustangs 10 January 22nd, 2007 10:36 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:18 AM.
Modded Mustangs is ©2005-2008, All Rights Reserved, And is Not Affiliated with Ford Motor Company.
Forum is powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Ent. Ltd. & SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.

powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Ent. Ltd.