[CammedMysticCobra]

Originally Posted by Techniq My plans: The cams will be upgraded before hand but they're not my concern for the time being as this is for planning purposes. As for what I'm looking for, a high to mid 11 sec street car would fit me great with a some room to grow with experience (eventually Mid-Low 10's). Reasons for trying to avoid the roots type charger. This car will be daily driven, making it more practical, for fuel consumption, to run turbos or centi-charger (Centri- ist the best option in my case due to CR) as I will be able to keep it out of boost in these conditions. Also the n/a feel created by the roots , as desirable as it sounds, would again make it difficult in city conditions. I'm am aware of lower boost options. Whipple is not an option for me.I don't want to swap intake and last time I checked it wasn't an option for Mach1's unless this swap was made. Ok first off If you dont want to run faster than low or mid 10s you do know you wont need more than 650 to 700hp at 135 if you have auto, or if you can slam some serious gears, which you didnt answer if you did. So right there you already know you dont need no twins to run that kind of power or times. Second You could run 2.8 Kenne easly be at 24 psi on your daily and just have a gas saving tune which you would run lean az hell on part throttle and have your racing tune with an SCT. So that fixes your problem that you say you will have in city driving conditions. And I sent you a message with your Shaker hood intake that you could fit 3.4Whipple or 2.8 Kenne bell. Google Image Result for http://www.motorator.com/uploads/blog_images/0000/0193/SuperShaker_4.jpg Google Image Result for http://cracklecdn-zoovy-2.simplecdn.net/img/stage3motorsports/W150-H150-Befefef/0/saleen_shaker_charger_engine.jpg Centrifugal Chargers: More efficient than Roots type, so I don't see why you call them inefficient. Procharger in particular run's a 3 core air-to-air intercooler. Kennebell runs the same intercooler as the 03/04 cobras from what I'm aware. Centrifugal even with their 3 core air to air intercooler always run extremely hot and thats not even including the heat coming from the radiator that is right infront of it all the time becuase of the chargers location. I truthfully don't see a problem with Hellion or HPP or the point your trying to show me. Forgive my ignorance. As for the videos, they don't seem to be doing the drivers or your point much justice. As you can see from the people who commented above they arnt all you think they are. Iam telling you can make your own for allot cheaper. (Pull Videos) They seem to be pulling decently well . I dont understand what you describe as decent cuz they all were loosing and look at the RPM at which they are at full boost its not more than 1500 to 2000 Rpm of power on the manuals. (Roll Races)What boost are the car's running?Why are the mod's lists so vague in description. For all I know the TT is running 8lbs while the KB is running 14. Boost is boost If the kenne bell is running 17 cuz no one runs lower than 17psi on any kenne bell on Cobra and the TT Cobra needs to be higher if he wants even catch up becuase of the lag in which I have proven my point because if your roll racing from 50 to 160 and you need to be playing catchup that isnt going to give you too much time to get next to him and beat him unless your running 15 psi above the car your racing because of the lag that is clearly in the vids. (Drag Videos)Are they even launching in boost? Didn't sound like it for the one video we could hear. If it was wouldn't it sound something like this?..... MIKES Twin Turbo Cobra mustang! SICK 1/4 MILE!!! Yeah they were they just didnt have two steps which is the right way to launch a turbo car like these two did. But guaranteed to run high 9s at 141 he has to be close to 850hp and have lost at least 200 to 300lbs in the Cobra. or (Even though this video is of a single turbo ) YouTube- FastMark's 03 Cobra 9.2@155 Hellion 88mm turbo Like I said yeah if you have automatic on twins or single and two step its a different story. But to run 9.2 @ 149 with the car weighing in 3650 you need 950hp which you would need 35 psi. To hook this amount of power your going to have be rolling on slicks. But you also said you want a street car if you have to roll on slicks and be running race gas which this car would have to do to run those times on the street not to mention some serious suspension work and fully built tranny to hold that amount of power. By this time you are stepping into semi race car terratory. This is why you the best option is Kenne or Whipple but dont listen to me its not like I know what Iam talking about. These videos I feel are a great demonstration of a perfect launch in boost. You also seem to be making the point the bigger the Turbo the more lag will be present.... however this statement is true a larger turbo(s) will have the ability to produce more boost and are more efficient. To add who had to say that Both turbos needed to be the same size?I could go with one 50mm and one 76mm. Hellion & HPP seem to be well known and good companies. Also the turbos of today seem to have reduced the dreaded lag period pretty well....

You asked for advice Iam giving it to you and you dont seem to be not wanting to take it. I dont think you understand the definition of what efficiency is. A bigger turbo gives you the ability to run higher boost which will give you more power and the higher boost the less efficient the whole setup becomes.

[Techniq]

Originally Posted by CammedMysticCobra You asked for advice Iam giving it to you and you dont seem to be not wanting to take it. I dont think you understand the definition of what efficiency is. A bigger turbo gives you the ability to run higher boost which will give you more power and the higher boost the less efficient the whole setup becomes.

Your correct..... I did ask for the advice. Said with kind intentions, some of it just seems to be a bit flawed. Like below....

Originally Posted by CammedMysticCobra I myslef would never run any centrigufical prochrager or vortec they are very inafficient, all ways run hot az hell, and the way they move the boost is just retarded.

This statement left me a bit confused. I was under the impression that Centrifugal Superchargers operate much like a turbo making them more efficient then roots, but in its case it is belt driven so it is still given some restraint by the motor.

Originally Posted by CammedMysticCobra A bigger turbo gives you the ability to run higher boost which will give you more power and the higher boost the less efficient the whole setup becomes.

^This again left me confused. Only being half correct. During higher boost a Turbo must spin at a greater rpm so yes it will become less efficient as heat increases. This is why larger turbos are used so that the same amount of air can be moved at a lower rpm which reduces heat.

The following are not my words. "Cited below"

this argument has been recorded a thousand times. Volume is the same for every single turbo at the same psi and the same RPM. Smaller turbos simply cannot flow enough at higher RPMS to match bigger ones. Bigger turbos are nice, espcially with high rpm's becuase they can still produce 20+ psi of boost where the 16G would fall on its face and produce less boost and almost become a flow restriction. Also, bigger turbos are more efficient so they heat up the air less at any given rpm, thus 20psi from a 16g and 20psi from a larger turbo at a certain rpm has differences in temperature which leads to density differences.

same psi on larger turbo makes more power than smaller turbo - evolutionm.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A larger turbo is able to move more air at a same rpm making it more efficient. A smaller turbo needs to rotate at a much higher rpm to produce the same amount of air flow. It heats up therefore creating hotter less reliable air.

[Techniq]

Originally Posted by GTermi Yeah, dont buy anything from HPP. They love to screw over their customers pretty bad. I trusted Manny to do me right and boy he bent me over and rapped me. They are a very crooked company IMO

Originally Posted by GTermi Also, when i went up to HPP, one of their "badest cars(Mach 1)" with that turbo only made 550..for a twin turbo kit u better be making much more than 550 to the tire.

I think I found someone with a similar problem.

HP TT 57mm Kit on '04 Mach1
@ 10 psi made 516 Rwhp/ 517 Rwtq <- Not sure how good that is.

I guess when he tried upping the boost he ran into some problems with the kit.

Long story short..... He now has an F1a Procharger on it.

[CammedMysticCobra]

Originally Posted by Techniq Your correct..... I did ask for the advice. Said with kind intentions, some of it just seems to be a bit flawed. Like below.... This statement left me a bit confused. I was under the impression that Centrifugal Superchargers operate much like a turbo making them more efficient then roots, but in its case it is belt driven so it is still given some restraint by the motor. Right and in the messge I posted later on today I specifically told why they were more less efficient. Centrifugal even with their 3 core air to air intercooler always run extremely hot and thats not even including the heat coming from the radiator that is right infront of it all the time becuase of the chargers location. A bigger turbo gives you the ability to run higher boost which will give you more power and the higher boost the less efficient the whole setup becomes. ^This again left me confused. Only being half correct. During higher boost a Turbo must spin at a greater rpm so yes it will become less efficient as heat increases. This is why larger turbos are used so that the same amount of air can be moved at a lower rpm which reduces heat. Yes I know that bigger the turbo the more air they can move at lower rpm no where in my statement did I state that the bigger the turbo the hotter the temperature. What I ment by less efficienct the whole setup becomes is what I first started talking about to you and my point about the lag from bigger turbos and the fact you will only be making power in no more than 1500 to maybe 2500 Rpm. And by Bigger turbos I mean any turbo bigger or as big as twin 57s if your not running a displacement larger than 5.0. The following are not my words. "Cited below" this argument has been recorded a thousand times. Volume is the same for every single turbo at the same psi and the same RPM. Smaller turbos simply cannot flow enough at higher RPMS to match bigger ones. Bigger turbos are nice, espcially with high rpm's becuase they can still produce 20+ psi of boost where the 16G would fall on its face and produce less boost and almost become a flow restriction. Also, bigger turbos are more efficient so they heat up the air less at any given rpm, thus 20psi from a 16g and 20psi from a larger turbo at a certain rpm has differences in temperature which leads to density differences. I agree with this statement but you need to uderstand this is coming from Evolutionm which is a Evo forum. When they say bigger turbos, they are talking about the smallest upgraded turbos which are GT20Rs up to GT42Rs which are the biggest turbos that the fastest record Evos have. And so you can understand how huge a T88 is, the GT42R is the equivalent between a T70 to a T75 and would still spool faster and be able to make 1000hp so maybe this will make you see you dont understand what your talking about and you need to do alot more research on turbos before you keep on reposting my responses that you dont agree with due to your lack of turbo knowledge. same psi on larger turbo makes more power than smaller turbo - evolutionm.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A larger turbo is able to move more air at a same rpm making it more efficient. A smaller turbo needs to rotate at a much higher rpm to produce the same amount of air flow. It heats up therefore creating hotter less reliable air.

See my above response about the bigger turbos for this quote as well it pretains to the same thing.

And you still havent answered weather you have an automatic or manual?

[Mroman27]

The point is, smaller turbos spool up faster then a LARGER turbo. so you make the potential hp faster and don't have max boost for only the high end of your RPM range.

the point of the videos was to show that a large turbo was gonna spool a whole lot slower then a smaller one. From what i hear... problems with running a big and small, is the tuning. but only from what i hear.

You could always be a big money baller and go compound induction... but thats BIG money

[Techniq]

Originally Posted by CammedMysticCobra See my above response about the bigger turbos for this quote as well it pretains to the same thing. And you still havent answered weather you have an automatic or manual?

I'm sure we meant the same thing we just went about describing it in a different manner.

You were correct in your assumption..... Standard.

[Techniq]

Originally Posted by Mroman27 The point is, smaller turbos spool up faster then a LARGER turbo. so you make the potential hp faster and don't have max boost for only the high end of your RPM range. the point of the videos was to show that a large turbo was gonna spool a whole lot slower then a smaller one. From what i hear... problems with running a big and small, is the tuning. but only from what i hear. You could always be a big money baller and go compound induction... but thats BIG money

That's another option. I have 1/3 of the eaton swap already it's just about getting the other 2/3rds. As I said earlier I have several years to work this all together so It might not be a bad idea to consider this either.

[Techniq]

As for as what set up/size turbo(s) that would most appropriately fit what I'm looking for, what should I look for when deciding?

[futureMACH1racer]

I believe Swervo is going to sell his kit, so you can probably buy that pretty reasonable...

[CammedMysticCobra]

Originally Posted by Techniq I'm sure we meant the same thing we just went about describing it in a different manner. No I dont think so I was correcting you and making you uderstand what I was talking about. You were correct in your assumption..... Standard.

What assumption and still dont understand why its so hard for you to answer the question if you have an automatic or manual.
So after reading everything I posted do you understand now or you still have the same opinions you tried correcting me with. Becuase your now asking what turbo to go with when all the info on what would be the best turbo is in my last post lol.

[Cricket]

What are you looking for out of the car?

What are you goals for it?

[Techniq]

Originally Posted by Cricket What are you looking for out of the car? What are you goals for it?

My goals for the car... im wanting something thats streetable for daily driving. As for power 450- 500 rwhp would work just fine for now. Ill later want to increase the power as I gain experiance with the car.

[onefast_03cobra]

i have 2 buddys that went from a whipple to turbos. they both have 03 cobras one with a t76 and the other with twin 61s. and they will both tell you that yes the turbos make more power but on the streets the t/s were a hell of alot more fun. and with turbos your always retune the car is that becomes a pain in the ass

[CammedMysticCobra]

Yes this explains my point exaclty.

[Kimo]

oh man.. i love it!

[Techniq]

Originally Posted by onefast_03cobra i have 2 buddys that went from a whipple to turbos. they both have 03 cobras one with a t76 and the other with twin 61s. and they will both tell you that yes the turbos make more power but on the streets the t/s were a hell of alot more fun. and with turbos your always retune the car is that becomes a pain in the ass

Which is why I wanted to stay away from turbos. This is "more maintenance" part I was wanting to avoid. A procharger is what I wanted to really go with. Self contained, Great intercooler set up and I wouldn't sacrifice the stock gas mileage much because I'd be outta boost during normal driving. But the CR seems to be saying otherwise. Do twin screws really hurt gas mileage that much?

[CammedMysticCobra]

No dude they dont and already told you the type of forced induction you go with has nothing to do with your gas mileage. What does effect that is your tune.

[dcook_14]

Originally Posted by Techniq Which is why I wanted to stay away from turbos. This is "more maintenance" part I was wanting to avoid. A procharger is what I wanted to really go with. Self contained, Great intercooler set up and I wouldn't sacrifice the stock gas mileage much because I'd be outta boost during normal driving. But the CR seems to be saying otherwise. Do twin screws really hurt gas mileage that much?

I don't know why you keep throwing out that a centri will be more fuel efficient than a twin screw. You're out of boost driving with a twin screw as well ie if you never go WOT with a twin screw then you'll never be in boost. The things that determine gas mileage are your tune, gears, and right foot. The only way I can see a twin screw'd car getting worse gas mileage is because it's so damn fun to smash the gas and be at full boost at 3k rpm, so you'll be rodding on the car all the time.

If you're worried about the Procharger not having enough power off the line, spray a 50 shot. Nothing wrong with running nitrous off the line. How often are you at lower RPMs when you're drag racing anyway?

[TRMach1]

Originally Posted by dcook_14 I don't know why you keep throwing out that a centri will be more fuel efficient than a twin screw. You're out of boost driving with a twin screw as well ie if you never go WOT with a twin screw then you'll never be in boost. The things that determine gas mileage are your tune, gears, and right foot. The only way I can see a twin screw'd car getting worse gas mileage is because it's so damn fun to smash the gas and be at full boost at 3k rpm, so you'll be rodding on the car all the time. If you're worried about the Procharger not having enough power off the line, spray a 50 shot. Nothing wrong with running nitrous off the line. How often are you at lower RPMs when you're drag racing anyway?

Amen bro!! That about sums it all up. Drove my car on a 1600 mile round trip last year, averaged 27mpg on the Interstate!

[612rwhpSVT]

Good Luck!