[Burnt]

Ah.. That shouldn't be much of a problem for me then, since I don't plan to boost my next car. Cams are expensive for these cars.. but you are getting two as opposed to one.
New edge looks good, but not better than a Cobra IMO. The body style has grown on me fast.. my buddy just got a SN95 5.0 GT and I think it looks good/performs well. I'm not too sure how many owners the car has had, but that's something to ask when i meet the guy. I just figured that since I'll be replacing quite a few of the parts on the car, and the mileage will start to mean less and less but who knows

[BCP]

Originally Posted by mpe331lx Looks are a matter of oppinion (new edge vs sn95), so that really doesn't matter.. As for performance, Stock vs stock they are close performers with the edge going to the cobra. Full bolt ons , gears, and sticky tires and the cobra will DESTROY the GT. You really do not need aftermarket intakes or heads when the stock 4v stuff works. If you decide you want to build the 4v for N/A performance, its hard to beat a set of ported 03-05 4v heads, a ported short runner mach1 intake, with a healthy set of cams. There have been many N/A 4v cars hitting 10's with that combo.

^That. There arent many aftermarket intakes for the Cobra, because they do not need them! The stock intake works damned well, so there isnt really much of a market there. The 2V has lots of aftermarket parts availability because there is a market there, the stock stuff sucks.

In regards to reliability, my last Cobra, a 97, was my daily driver and racked up close to 30,000 miles in a little over a year. The only issue I ever had was the alternator, which was a pretty easy fix, and can happen on any car. It really depends on maintenance just like any car, the better it was maintained, the more likely it will be reliable. My 97 had 140k+ miles on it when i got rid of it, and still spanked a new Camaro SS, newer 5.7 GTO, turbo VW, etc while only having bolt-ons. IMO, a SN-95 Cobra is a fun, reliable, comfortable car whether its your daily driver, weekend toy, or both. They have great potential, perform well stock and with mild bolt-ons, handle well, stop well, and are comfy to be in for extended periods of time. Ive always regretted selling them

[acidtonic]

Originally Posted by BCP x2. I would definitely go with the 96-98 Cobra, but most likely a 97 Cobra. The 96 had a cooling issue, and the 98 was sort of a bastard year with parts from newer models found here and there.

Exactly! I chose a 97 for those reasons. 97 also still had composite IMRCs whist the 98 had plastic which was better for stock, but worse for deleting since you cant modify the plastic to create deletes.

Also the dash clock was removed in 98 and I love mine. I pulled out my sound so having a clock still is nice.

I started off wanting a new edge because all the 94-98 GTs I saw looked like ASS. Well it grows on you VERY quick. Especially having the best stock hood of any mustang ever. It really fixes the contours and curves and looks quite slick.

The car has a real curvy form which is not conveyed in pictures. The doors kinda bulge in some and the hood lines perfectly match the flow of the body when you look at it from the side while standing right next to the car.

As for mods I found mine to respond quite well to weight reduction. 1st gear doesnt pull on the GT as much as you'd think, but once you grab 2nd they are just gone. Bye bye.

You also get a much larger powerband. Criminally large. Shitty pull from 0-3000rpm, absolutely sick pull from 3800-7000! My old GT was the opposite pulling well from 2000-4500 and crap from 4500-5800.

I found the trick was to remove some weight. It matters more on this exact model year more than any other mustang I've owned. (I've had GTs). I cant really describe it very easily but all the power is shifted to higher RPM. So you basically are bogging the whole time you're in the low rpms. Remove enough weight to fix that bogging feeling and you'll swear there are two distinct rushes of power while revving. The first when your torque comes on and it starts taking off, then a second rush exactly when you need it around 3800rpm which then rockets you to 7200 where you're already going 45mph in 1st, then grab 2nd and hold on until 89mph when you have to shift again to 3rd.

The really long wide powerband means you just floor it and hold on. I need exactly one gear shift to hit 90mph. And with so much less weight I pull more than a GT when I'm not even in my powerband.

You will find with stock gears that you sit and kinda weight for the power to come on. If i floor it at 45mph in 2nd gear there isnt much and I can count an easy 2 seconds before I have that crazy pull.

Just feels like a horsepower oriented motor as opposed to the torque oriented motor of the GT. I'd much rather have my power in the top end where I need it.

[BCP]

Originally Posted by acidtonic Exactly! I chose a 97 for those reasons. 97 also still had composite IMRCs whist the 98 had plastic which was better for stock, but worse for deleting since you cant modify the plastic to create deletes. Also the dash clock was removed in 98 and I love mine. I pulled out my sound so having a clock still is nice. I started off wanting a new edge because all the 94-98 GTs I saw looked like ASS. Well it grows on you VERY quick. Especially having the best stock hood of any mustang ever. It really fixes the contours and curves and looks quite slick. The car has a real curvy form which is not conveyed in pictures. The doors kinda bulge in some and the hood lines perfectly match the flow of the body when you look at it from the side while standing right next to the car. As for mods I found mine to respond quite well to weight reduction. 1st gear doesnt pull on the GT as much as you'd think, but once you grab 2nd they are just gone. Bye bye. You also get a much larger powerband. Criminally large. Shitty pull from 0-3000rpm, absolutely sick pull from 3800-7000! My old GT was the opposite pulling well from 2000-4500 and crap from 4500-5800. I found the trick was to remove some weight. It matters more on this exact model year more than any other mustang I've owned. (I've had GTs). I cant really describe it very easily but all the power is shifted to higher RPM. So you basically are bogging the whole time you're in the low rpms. Remove enough weight to fix that bogging feeling and you'll swear there are two distinct rushes of power while revving. The first when your torque comes on and it starts taking off, then a second rush exactly when you need it around 3800rpm which then rockets you to 7200 where you're already going 45mph in 1st, then grab 2nd and hold on until 89mph when you have to shift again to 3rd. The really long wide powerband means you just floor it and hold on. I need exactly one gear shift to hit 90mph. And with so much less weight I pull more than a GT when I'm not even in my powerband. You will find with stock gears that you sit and kinda weight for the power to come on. If i floor it at 45mph in 2nd gear there isnt much and I can count an easy 2 seconds before I have that crazy pull. Just feels like a horsepower oriented motor as opposed to the torque oriented motor of the GT. I'd much rather have my power in the top end where I need it.

Not to mention some 98's had a returnless fule system, and other quirks of the upcoming models.

Changing the gears fixes the low RPM power real quick. I DDed mine with 4:30's and it was loads of fun, while not really getting horrible fuel economy for what it was.

[mpe331lx]

Originally Posted by acidtonic Exactly! I chose a 97 for those reasons. 97 also still had composite IMRCs whist the 98 had plastic which was better for stock, but worse for deleting since you cant modify the plastic to create deletes.

Small correction......the IMRC's that all 98s have (and some late 97's) are called composite, which is is the plastic material. The composite/plasic IMRC's can easily be made into a delete by closing the holes with epoxy. They also transfer less heat then the aluminum ones and have ports that better match the heads.


The 96-early 97s had aluminum ones.

[ReverendDexter]

For the record, I'd take the SN95 Cobra over the New Edge GT every time.

[MacGill]

By the Cobra for the name (4v engine sound + higher revving rpm's) but in all honesty from a mere bolt on versus bolt on performance point of view it is not as night and day as many make it out to be. I mean sure if you boost or run N2o (higher impact mods) the 4v outperforms but just as is with all other engines you can't change mother nature (atmospheric pressure you are up against) unless you do the heavy duty mods. They are just a tad faster in stock trim and have the potential to be monsters but they do not perform like the 03-04 Mach 1's and as with everything else technology gets better etc. In all honesty it takes big power to really pull and keep pulling on someone and well the difference in weight/hp really isn't enough to back up claims that one will just completely destroy the other with the same bolt ons. Both are great cars and my old neighbour had a red 97 Cobra w' 4.10's + tune and it drove nice but in reality they aren't putting down Termi hp numbers to blow something close in numbers away. I just look at things in more of a real light and 40 crank hp isn't enough to just walk away bolt on or not. When I would go to the track and race if I got the jump on a car close in power or maybe a bit ahead and I made all my shifts he would not pass me through the traps but would have a better time then me. Some days my buddies Cobra is faster than me and sometimes I am faster then him, most times it is who got the better start etc. My point is that I always hear people saying how bolt -ons will make you blow other out of the water when really I think alot of the stories is exaggerated. So again, both are great cars and both have good potential it's really a drivers race unless you get real serious about it with the most potential on the 4v side but since you mentioned that isn't what you were going to do take the best deal and have fun my man!!

[acidtonic]

Yeah I was mistaken to call the aluminum composite. I still meant I prefer the aluminum IMRCs when making deletes. From what I understand the composite IMRCs are better if you plan to keep them as they do transfer less heat and gum up less.

Here is a great listing of differences to look at. Covers a bit of everything.Corral.net : Ford Mustang Forums - View Single Post - what are the big diff between a 03 cobra motor and other dohc 4.6

As for the Mach I'd rather have the round body Cobra which has the T-45 vs 3650 (despite the t-45 having a bad rep, I personally feel they are better than the 3650.).

Also the Cobra has the better return style fuel system. (Someone mentioned 98 was returnless that is incorrect. 98 had returnless buckets but a return style setup still.)

Mach however has stock subframes and bilsteins which are way better than the cobra stock vs stock. I have Tokico Dspecs on mine and couldnt be happier since my stockers blew out at 75K on the money.

The Mach has the WAP block which I know is fine for 90% but I like knowing the Cobra's Teksid is better. Most B head cars need valvetrain attention eventually unless properly kept clean so they naturally have a great excuse to go C head anyway. I just think it's easier to start with the better block and switch heads vs starting with the heads and trying to switch the block. Keep a lower mileage 96-98 clean by proper oil changes and seafoaming via pcv valve and you wont have any valvetrain problems at all. Older cars might need the heads pulled and simply cleaned out. Great time to update cams, lash adjusters, followers, and maybe go forged or do something to the intake while it's out.

Stock vs stock the Mach actually makes nearly identical numbers until mid 3500rpm when it gains roughly 30hp/37tq on the B head car but only for a bit. They are not as bad as people let on stock vs stock. The stock gears are really the reason since the mach has 3.55s while a stock 96-98 has 3.27s. But yes C heads are better NA, I dont disagree.

I compared some dynos a while ago and the Mach was a newer car with less miles while the Cobra was an old motor completely stock. Not amazingly accurate but interesting to look at. Corral.net : Ford Mustang Forums - View Single Post - Any news on the B-headed Sullivan intake???

Now I know modding the C head shows their true potential since they are better without FI, but the B heads aren't as bad as some make them out to be. I'm running good times with mine and couldnt be happier. I like the sound of the B head cars and the t-45 too which of course is also an opinion.

Insurance is cheaper too along with people selling B heads for practically nothing providing never ending cheap replacement parts if needed. Run it hard!

[Burnt]

Thanks everyone, I repped all you guys posting some good info. Learning a lot here. ^^

[Jobra]

Originally Posted by Burnt Thanks everyone, I repped all you guys posting some good info. Learning a lot here. ^^

Yea the only thing holding me back from the 96-98's are the age. It can be tricky to find a good one that hasn't been molested, involved in a crash, or distastefully modded. Personally I would try to find an 03/04 Mach 1, as they incorporate the benefits of both worlds. The engine is revamped a little too so the 4v is even better! And it has the nice looks of the new edge, which I think are better for sure. I do like the looks of the SN95 Cobra's but I don't the like the stock looking V6/GT SN95's at all honestly.

Nobody touched on your transmission question (I don't think when I was scanning through) The Cobra uses the T-45 which is an older model of course than the new edge's T-3650 (at least from mid 2001-2004) Ford didn't do anything to the T-45 in the Cobra differently than the GT, so it's not "tougher". The T-3650 in the new edge's and Mach 1 IS stronger than the T-45's. That's why they switched to the new 3650's when it came out mid productions of the 01's... (Edit: just saw acids post but i added some more detail)

So you just have to ask yourself. Are you willing to drop 9-12 grand cash on 96-98 Cobra that is coming up on 13-15 years old with questionable history and no warranty? I'm not dissing the Cobra at all, I love the car, but I'm speaking realistically here. I know they are built solid and shit but you have to remember: what has the car been doing for the last decade and a half?

A mach might run 10-14k, but is much newer and just as fast or faster. This would be my choice.

A 99-04 GT can run anywhere from 7ish-14 thousands as well (dealer markups FTL) However these cars are MUCH more plentiful so getting salvaged part out cars and finding things you need down the road will be easier and cheaper.

If you plan on going F/I, we all know the 4v heads are the best for that job. However you can still make great power form the 2v's with a centri/twin screw, or even a single turbo.

Remember, It's a mustang. The possibilities are endless. You never know what you may find out there, so I'd say look for a 03/04 GT, SN95 Cobra, AND a Mach and see what you can find that is the best mechanically and has a good price and miles!

Good luck to you!

[acidtonic]

This can go to another thread if needed but I do disagree on the 3650 being better. Simply being newer means nothing. Cars regress in performance all the time. Civics used to have SLA front ends but they switched to a much worse McPherson setup.

So more proof beyond simply being newer is warranted.

I tend to find more cases of 3650s acting weird than T-45s despite the T-45 being "known" as a bad tranny.

T-45s have no shift stops so idiot drivers can damage them easier and bend forks. You just need to not use the stock shifter. 3650s tend to wear synchros much easier and have gear lockout and clunking issues. The T-45s have older T-5 style shift rails while the 3650 has a much more complex setup.

There are even TSBs for known 1-2 shift problems on 3650s.

Many after driving both side by side say the T-45 feels smoother while the 3650 feels real mechanical and clunky. They both have long skinny input shafts which makes them both weak. Supposedly the 3650 can hold a tad more power, but I see enough breaking from stock power to avoid them.

Of course the opinion that bubbles to the top is just that T3650 > T-45. I disagree.

[mystk96]

someone take my cobra and ill take your new edge gt