[WickedSnake00]

Objective: Get a 4.6L DOHC forged engine, along with the proper parts for a terminator twin screw setup.

Options:
1) Build it. Late model 4.6L DOHC engine: ~$2000, Forged Internals: ~$1800 (or forged longblock for $4300) Blower accessory drive, manifold and M112: $2800.
Total: $6600, plus intake system, intercooler system

2) Buy it. Terminator engine liftout: Between $5500-8000.

3) Transplant it. Entire drivetrain and fuel system: $10,500

4) Wrecked car. Salvage terminator: $10,800

Core return for current P71/TR-3650 liftout- ???

Comments:
Buying a running car is not an option. I've worked far too hard on this car, and fully intend on keeping it. I'm also trying to keep with the budget theme. It would be easy to just open up the wallet, but this car has been so cheap thusfar, I almost want the bragging rights of doing this for so little, as well as the reward of putting the hard work in. Who wouldn't want to say "Yeah, your $40,000 car just got smoked by my $10,000 car."

Any thoughts on what I should do or where I could go for some of this would be greatly appreciated. No big rush either. My car's still sitting in storage...

[WickedSnake00]

No thoughts at all? Any better suggestions for parts would be great.

I can't believe FRPP is selling the accessory drive for $1600. These parts are obscenely expensive for what they are.

Any tips on getting cheap parts, motors, or cars would be greatly appreciated. I'll gladly repay the favor.

And whatever route I go, you can expect a lengthy writeup, complete with pictures, lists, and prices.

So help me help you.

[SWEET2KSTANG]

just about everything has been done, its up to you what you want to do and how much you want to spend.

[WickedSnake00]

Update: After lots of number crunching the initial figures are somewhat misleading. With all accessories and systems, a package can be pieced together for around $8900. This has lead me to pick the wrecked Cobra option, I think this will be the overall most viable option. For now I'll keep rather tight lipped about cost figures. You'll have to wait for the final build thread to get those.

Here's how it shakes down:

(1) 2011 Dodge Ram ST 4x4 w/Cummins 6.7L diesel
(1) 30pk PBR
(1) engine hoist
(1) wrecked 03/04 Cobra

Time frame: Truck this summer (for pulling the wreck, and partly a little company discount.) Purchase parts/vehicle in the fall, carry out swap in winter. I know this seems distant, but I probably won't have adequate space until then. If I do happen to come across it, I'll start earlier. Keep an eye out for a "Project: Secondhand Snake build" thread. I'm hoping this might turn out to be one of the most impressive budget builds to date.

Comments:
Any help in locating a cheap wrecked Cobra will be rewarded!
Anyone who helps can get first dibs on spare parts (including my current drivetrain liftout), help on their project, body work, vehicle transport w/the diesel truck, or a puppy.




...just kidding about the puppy. Unless you get me a really good price. Then maybe.

[Thumbie]

keep looking in the junkyards and on craigslist.org. I've seen salvage title cobras on craigslist before. If you can, go with the engine from a '99 cobra and add forged internals and a supercharger to that. The Terminator comes with forged internals (I THINK) and that stock blower isn't the best you can buy. Don't get the '01 Cobra motor unless you're sure its a Teksid.

[majorownage]

teksid long block from mark viii: 300
cobra crank: 200
cobra cams: 300
cobra h beams: 300
diamond pistons: 700
machining/rings/bearings: 500

2700 for 1000hp capable longblock

these are all reasonable prices

you would have to use an aftermarkt kenne bell blower intake that is not compatible with an inner/aftercooler.

[majorownage]

Originally Posted by Thumbie keep looking in the junkyards and on craigslist.org. I've seen salvage title cobras on craigslist before. If you can, go with the engine from a '99 cobra and add forged internals and a supercharger to that. The Terminator comes with forged internals (I THINK) and that stock blower isn't the best you can buy. Don't get the '01 Cobra motor unless you're sure its a Teksid.

of course terminators come with forged internals...they'll hold 1000hp stock (for a while)

teksids are meh

iron<teksid<05 and up 4.6 aluminum


OHH and if you do use a teksid with a stock terminator intake manifold, you will have to grind the knock sensor bungs off

^^^^ my last post was going all forged budgeted build

It all depends on how much horsepower you want to make/need.

You do not need to spend that much if you are doing a 700 horse build.

I am really trying hard to find some 2011 5.slow rods to do some measurements on, and see if they are useable with other 4.6L stock parts. I just have not been able to get a definate answer on the small end diameter.

With these just these rods swapped, you are easily looking at a super cheap high horse engine.

People always complain about powdered metal. Powdered metal can be made "stronger" in some instances. It is in the metallurgy. Great example is Howard Racing. Many of their high performance rods were powdered metal.

I would take PM over any china forgings

[WickedSnake00]

Thanks for the thoughts, and believe me, I've run over all the numbers. The motor itself is the easy part (see eaton swap thread.) Your numbers seem in line with mine. Where the real insanity in cost comes in is the accessories. Things such as heat exchangers, brackets, timing covers, alternators, etc... really inflate the cost. Plus there's all the supporting modifications, as I'll go with the T-56 for the extra gear, and all the fuel requirements. All of this makes the salvage option more viable in the long run.

If I were only shooting for a mild 400-450hp build this would probably be fine, but I'm hoping to crack 600. In this case the limitation would be the supporting modifications, and not the block itself.

The only upgrades in the near future would be larger rear wheels, pulley, a KB 2.1, and stage II blower cams. After I get this pieced together first of course.

[majorownage]

Originally Posted by WickedSnake00 Thanks for the thoughts, and believe me, I've run over all the numbers. The motor itself is the easy part (see eaton swap thread.) Your numbers seem in line with mine. Where the real insanity in cost comes in is the accessories. Things such as heat exchangers, brackets, timing covers, alternators, etc... really inflate the cost. Plus there's all the supporting modifications, as I'll go with the T-56 for the extra gear, and all the fuel requirements. All of this makes the salvage option more viable in the long run. If I were only shooting for a mild 400-450hp build this would probably be fine, but I'm hoping to crack 600. In this case the limitation would be the supporting modifications, and not the block itself. The only upgrades in the near future would be larger rear wheels, pulley, a KB 2.1, and stage II blower cams. After I get this pieced together first of course.

FYI the whipple kit for the 5.slow makes 624 hp on 11:1 compression, powder forged rods, and hypereutectic pistons...

[4valvegt]

Originally Posted by majorownage of course terminators come with forged internals...they'll hold 1000hp stock (for a while) teksids are meh iron<teksid<05 and up 4.6 aluminum OHH and if you do use a teksid with a stock terminator intake manifold, you will have to grind the knock sensor bungs off ^^^^ my last post was going all forged budgeted build It all depends on how much horsepower you want to make/need. You do not need to spend that much if you are doing a 700 horse build. I am really trying hard to find some 2011 5.slow rods to do some measurements on, and see if they are useable with other 4.6L stock parts. I just have not been able to get a definate answer on the small end diameter. With these just these rods swapped, you are easily looking at a super cheap high horse engine. People always complain about powdered metal. Powdered metal can be made "stronger" in some instances. It is in the metallurgy. Great example is Howard Racing. Many of their high performance rods were powdered metal. I would take PM over any china forgings

I could show some pictures of a scattered termi that proves otherwise. The rods and crank are forged pistons are not.

[4valvegt]

Teksid is the strongest 4.6 block out there period. The best platform to build off of.

[majorownage]

Originally Posted by 4valvegt I could show some pictures of a scattered termi that proves otherwise. The rods and crank are forged pistons are not.

are you crazy?

termi engines were all forged, sorry to burst your bubble, but just because you have a forged engine doesn't mean it will go through hell and back

termi engines have the following

forged cobra crank
manley h beam rods
mahle forged pistons


also, all that scuffing you see? That is because the forging swelled up so much from detonation heat. Hypereutectic castings do not do that because the amount of thermal expansion is negligible.

[majorownage]

Originally Posted by 4valvegt Teksid is the strongest 4.6 block out there period. The best platform to build off of.

nope

ford gt block, the 5.0 aluminum, and 05 and up 4.6 aluminum are better.

[4valvegt]

Originally Posted by majorownage nope ford gt block, the 5.0 aluminum, and 05 and up 4.6 aluminum are better.

I said 4.6 not 5.4 or 5.0, teksid is better than 05 up. Cobras will not last at 1000hp.

[majorownage]

Originally Posted by 4valvegt I said 4.6 not 5.4 or 5.0, teksid is better than 05 up. Cobras will not last at 1000hp.

they do last at 1000hp. The killer for termi engines is heat/detonation. E85 takes care of both.

A guy locally in dallas ran a stock 03 cobra on e85 with a procharger and 4r70w. He was making 1200hp until he threw a rod XD

The new 5.0 uses the same material as 05 and up 4.6's. It is impossible to say the 5.slow is stronger than the 05 and up 4.6's

[WickedSnake00]

Holy off topic Batman!

I see no problems with running a stock terminator motor to the 600-700hp range. I wouldn't sweat with that assembly anywhere south of 800hp.

I also see no viable suggestions for attaining the previously stated objective. If I wanted a 5.0 to boost I'd buy one. Instead I'll be enjoying the boost from a VGT on my Cummins ISB 6.7L.

[4valvegt]

Originally Posted by WickedSnake00 Holy off topic Batman! I see no problems with running a stock terminator motor to the 600-700hp range. I wouldn't sweat with that assembly anywhere south of 800hp. I also see no viable suggestions for attaining the previously stated objective. If I wanted a 5.0 to boost I'd buy one. Instead I'll be enjoying the boost from a VGT on my Cummins ISB 6.7L.

Ya maybe 800hp with a PERFECT tune. Anywhere above and its not gonna last in a track setting. I have one sitting on an engine stand in my shop right now that was sitting at around 600 and a piston failed in it.

[majorownage]

Originally Posted by 4valvegt Ya maybe 800hp with a PERFECT tune. Anywhere above and its not gonna last in a track setting. I have one sitting on an engine stand in my shop right now that was sitting at around 600 and a piston failed in it.

Let me guess what piston? Oh say #7?

[4valvegt]

Originally Posted by majorownage Let me guess what piston? Oh say #7?

#4

[4valvegt]

Originally Posted by majorownage Let me guess what piston? Oh say #7?

The owner thought the left head dropped the guide and his valve fell into the cylinder. Think these motors are kind of sensative to heat and detonation like you say, but its not the first terminator i have seen fail, you really have to have a perfect tune if your gonna run alot of power but 1000 hp doesnt seem possible out of these engines.