whats the deal with twin turbo stangs and cylinder 1 problems?

98Cobra_sleeper · November 10th, 2011, 10:44 PM

So i've came across several engine's for sale on several forums. I see these engines for sale either with damage to cylinder 1 or previous damage thats been fixed. All of them say the engine came out of a twin turbo cars. I have missfire in my cylinder 1 as well. whats the deal?

Keasbey · November 11th, 2011, 10:02 AM

might look into the cooling head mod. i dont remember which cylinder would always over heat when high boost was added, but thats why they do it.

1999cobra92 · November 11th, 2011, 09:07 PM

Cylinders #8 I believe is the one that tends to heat up with out the head cooling modd

98Cobra_sleeper · November 12th, 2011, 11:48 PM

i have the cooling head mod already, which cools cyl 8.

CobraStang161 · November 17th, 2011, 09:33 AM

Hey buddy what's up? I was going to text you about this but figured I'd post it for other people. Since the first cylinder sees boost the quickest, the rings are hit the hardest by all the added atmospheres from added boost. If the rings are improperly ground or just the wrong type for the build these problems will happen, and you will get blow-by. Where air bleeds into the bottomend losing compression.

98Cobra_sleeper · November 19th, 2011, 11:32 PM

ahh that makes some sense. good info man, thanks

C MY 4D · November 20th, 2011, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by CobraStang161

Hey buddy what's up? I was going to text you about this but figured I'd post it for other people. Since the first cylinder sees boost the quickest, the rings are hit the hardest by all the added atmospheres from added boost. If the rings are improperly ground or just the wrong type for the build these problems will happen, and you will get blow-by. Where air bleeds into the bottomend losing compression.

I don't agree.

Most likely a fuel system problem. Cylinder #1 is the furthest foreward cylinder. If the fuel system is not properly plumbed or the pump is not strong enough it will be the first cylinder to starve. While the car is under WOT the g-forces will try to push fuel back against the pump. None of this is seen while on the dyno since the car is stationary.
Returnless systems especially have these problems because of the time it takes for the ecu to command more fuel pressure. If a lean spike is present on the initial hit cylinder #1 is going to get it the worst.

WickedSnake00 · November 21st, 2011, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by C MY 4D

I don't agree.

Most likely a fuel system problem. Cylinder #1 is the furthest foreward cylinder. If the fuel system is not properly plumbed or the pump is not strong enough it will be the first cylinder to starve. While the car is under WOT the g-forces will try to push fuel back against the pump. None of this is seen while on the dyno since the car is stationary.
Returnless systems especially have these problems because of the time it takes for the ecu to command more fuel pressure. If a lean spike is present on the initial hit cylinder #1 is going to get it the worst.

I would agree with this. Pressurized gas is more apt to equalize than liquid, especially relatively dense liquid under acceleration. I can't speak for the 99/01 Cobra manifolds, but any aftermarket sheet metal style should have relatively equal pressure distribution, and even if it weren't, I don't see cylinder #1 as being the most pressurized.

To back up this theory, I'm looking at the engines here at work. They're all highly boosted straight sixes with a large common intake manifold. That's a lot more area to cover than our little 4.6L engines. Plus since they're diesel, the design really doesn't give a sh*t about port velocity, so this is an example of an extremely crummy intake design. Yet with all that against it, boost distribution is pretty even.

It would be interesting to see if someone could get a set of headers and run tests with a wideband on each primary and compare different intake designs versus fuel rails to see exactly how bad the problem is.

CobraStang161 · November 21st, 2011, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by C MY 4D

I don't agree.

Most likely a fuel system problem. Cylinder #1 is the furthest foreward cylinder. If the fuel system is not properly plumbed or the pump is not strong enough it will be the first cylinder to starve. While the car is under WOT the g-forces will try to push fuel back against the pump. None of this is seen while on the dyno since the car is stationary.
Returnless systems especially have these problems because of the time it takes for the ecu to command more fuel pressure. If a lean spike is present on the initial hit cylinder #1 is going to get it the worst.

We can agree to disagree my friend. This is from my experience with these motors. The Piston to wall clearance is horrible and the rings are complete junk, even on the 03/04 cobras. I have seen many motors blow onCylinder 1 from no compression from cracked rings...

C MY 4D · November 21st, 2011, 12:08 PM

Sorry, I still don't see it. Most factory motors go on cylinder #8. I guarantee most of those TT motors are aftermarket so that throws your theory for a loop.

BTW where did you get the idea cylinder #1 sees boost first? Do explain.

98Cobra_sleeper · November 21st, 2011, 11:20 PM

well, i have aftermarket rings (hellfire rings to be exact). i also have an aeromotive eliminator fuel pump, sumped gas tank, -8 feed line and -6 return. I have a 98 cobra motor, but i have 97 cobra imrc's plates with flappers deleted. i had the holes welded shut on the imrc plates. maybe the weld sticks out a lil in the hole in Cylinder 1? dunno.
BUUUT i get the missfire under even minor loads, like just going uphill. i get a check engine light on for it. Whats odd is that i didn't get a missfire when i had a supercharger on it. maybe i have a bad injector?

C MY 4D · November 22nd, 2011, 11:15 PM

Well that's easy enough to figure out. I would start with a compression and leak down test. If all looks ok swap in a new plug and swap the wire with another cylinder and swap injectors to another cylinder. Make sure you choose different cylinders for each part moved. If the miss follows a certain part you found the problem.

98Cobra_sleeper · November 23rd, 2011, 10:38 AM

yea sounds like a good idea

November 11th, 2011, 09:07 PM	#3
1999cobra92 Enthusiast 1999 mustang cobra Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Los Angeles, Ca Posts: 882 iTrader: 1 reviews	Cylinders #8 I believe is the one that tends to heat up with out the head cooling modd __________________ Black and White Crew Crew Member # 5 Check garage for mods and pics if you Los Angeles and want to ride send me a text (323) 270-6827 0% Wheel hop, 0% broken parts, 100% wheel spin

November 12th, 2011, 11:48 PM	#4
98Cobra_sleeper Enthusiast 1998 mustang cobra Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: pa Posts: 617 iTrader: 0 reviews	i have the cooling head mod already, which cools cyl 8. __________________ HP twin turbo - 691hp/608tq with 15lbs huffed in (old setup) comin soon...ON3 turbo kit, PTE7175

November 17th, 2011, 09:33 AM	#5
CobraStang161 Hardcore Enthusiast 4V twin turbo 2000 GT I live my life a quarter mile at a time xD Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 1,739 iTrader: 0 reviews	Hey buddy what's up? I was going to text you about this but figured I'd post it for other people. Since the first cylinder sees boost the quickest, the rings are hit the hardest by all the added atmospheres from added boost. If the rings are improperly ground or just the wrong type for the build these problems will happen, and you will get blow-by. Where air bleeds into the bottomend losing compression. __________________ 2000 Mustang GT Built 4V Motor with Sullivan Single Plane Intake Custom 66MM BB TT kit Borla XR-1 Dumped before rear Moser built 9" Rear 35 spline WaveTrac Diff with 3.75s 35 spline Moser axles 14PT roll cage and minitubbed

November 19th, 2011, 11:32 PM	#6
98Cobra_sleeper Enthusiast 1998 mustang cobra Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: pa Posts: 617 iTrader: 0 reviews	ahh that makes some sense. good info man, thanks __________________ HP twin turbo - 691hp/608tq with 15lbs huffed in (old setup) comin soon...ON3 turbo kit, PTE7175

November 21st, 2011, 12:08 PM	#10
C MY 4D Billy Weston 2003 Cobra 11.14@124.36 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hampton, VA Posts: 4,806 iTrader: 8 reviews	Sorry, I still don't see it. Most factory motors go on cylinder #8. I guarantee most of those TT motors are aftermarket so that throws your theory for a loop. BTW where did you get the idea cylinder #1 sees boost first? Do explain. __________________ TT Build in progress....... Need work done to your car for a great price in Hampton Roads? Shoot me a PM. Last edited by C MY 4D; November 21st, 2011 at 12:21 PM.

November 10th, 2011, 10:44 PM	#1
98Cobra_sleeper Enthusiast 1998 mustang cobra Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: pa Posts: 617 iTrader: 0 reviews	whats the deal with twin turbo stangs and cylinder 1 problems? So i've came across several engine's for sale on several forums. I see these engines for sale either with damage to cylinder 1 or previous damage thats been fixed. All of them say the engine came out of a twin turbo cars. I have missfire in my cylinder 1 as well. whats the deal? __________________ HP twin turbo - 691hp/608tq with 15lbs huffed in (old setup) comin soon...ON3 turbo kit, PTE7175

November 11th, 2011, 10:02 AM	#2
Keasbey Regular 97 cobra Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 74 iTrader: 0 reviews	might look into the cooling head mod. i dont remember which cylinder would always over heat when high boost was added, but thats why they do it.

November 21st, 2011, 11:20 PM	#11
98Cobra_sleeper Enthusiast 1998 mustang cobra Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: pa Posts: 617 iTrader: 0 reviews	well, i have aftermarket rings (hellfire rings to be exact). i also have an aeromotive eliminator fuel pump, sumped gas tank, -8 feed line and -6 return. I have a 98 cobra motor, but i have 97 cobra imrc's plates with flappers deleted. i had the holes welded shut on the imrc plates. maybe the weld sticks out a lil in the hole in Cylinder 1? dunno. BUUUT i get the missfire under even minor loads, like just going uphill. i get a check engine light on for it. Whats odd is that i didn't get a missfire when i had a supercharger on it. maybe i have a bad injector? __________________ HP twin turbo - 691hp/608tq with 15lbs huffed in (old setup) comin soon...ON3 turbo kit, PTE7175

November 22nd, 2011, 11:15 PM	#12
C MY 4D Billy Weston 2003 Cobra 11.14@124.36 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hampton, VA Posts: 4,806 iTrader: 8 reviews	Well that's easy enough to figure out. I would start with a compression and leak down test. If all looks ok swap in a new plug and swap the wire with another cylinder and swap injectors to another cylinder. Make sure you choose different cylinders for each part moved. If the miss follows a certain part you found the problem. __________________ TT Build in progress....... Need work done to your car for a great price in Hampton Roads? Shoot me a PM.

November 23rd, 2011, 10:38 AM	#13
98Cobra_sleeper Enthusiast 1998 mustang cobra Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: pa Posts: 617 iTrader: 0 reviews	yea sounds like a good idea __________________ HP twin turbo - 691hp/608tq with 15lbs huffed in (old setup) comin soon...ON3 turbo kit, PTE7175

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