Timing Question???

NYHigH · December 26th, 2006, 03:07 PM

Hey, I have an 88 Mustang GT. I swaped the motor with a brand new 302 short block. I was told it was based on a 94 cobra block, and i added the following:

Crane comp cam
Trick flow twisted wedge heads
1.6 roller rockers
hydraulic roller lifters
trick flow push rods
performer rpm intake
msd ignition

Holley 4150 hp series Carb 650cfm mechanical secondaries(no choke)

My question is, i'm trying to adjust the timing as a starting to adjusting the carb because it's idling high. Does anyone know the correct timing for this setup or is it the same 10 degrees as stock? Can you also recommend what to do about the pulley, it's all rusted and i can't see the numbers and what type of timing light (i've heard some timing lights don't work well with MSD ignition. with that being said, i then will be off to adjust the carb after the timing. i took it to a mechanic a while back, and i was told that they can't get the idle down because it looks like someone drilled holes in the butterflies. i bought the carb brand new from summit. Is this the way the carb comes because it is a racing carb and is it too big for what i have ....or do you think someone altered it?

I know there is a lot of questions here, but i've been dealing with this problem for a long time and i don't know what to do. Any help will be greatly appreciated . Thanks guys!

1slo5.0 · December 26th, 2006, 06:54 PM

You will have to play with the timing and see what the engine likes. You will need to clean the balancer up so you can see the marks. Spray around the carb with carb cleaner and see if the idle changes while its idling. You might have a vacuum leak. A 650 is not to big for that engine, it probably just needs some adjustment.

82GT · December 26th, 2006, 08:48 PM

The reason someone drilled holes in the butterflies was because it was running rich at idle or had trouble getting a decent idle because of a radical cam. When that happens people to turn the idle up to get a decent idle to the point where the idle/air screws no longer work because the carb is now idling on the main circuit because too much of the transfer slot it exposed.
Anyhow, holes in the butterflies should have NOTHING to do with not being able to adjust the idle.

82GT · December 26th, 2006, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by 82GT

The reason someone drilled holes in the butterflies was because it was running rich at idle or had trouble getting a decent idle because of a radical cam. When that happens people to turn the idle up to get a decent idle to the point where the idle/air screws no longer work because the carb is now idling on the main circuit because too much of the transfer slot it exposed.
Anyhow, holes in the butterflies should have NOTHING to do with not being able to adjust the idle.

As far as not able to see the timing marks? You can do one of two things:
1) Replace the balancer with a new one or
2) Clean the balancer good and install timing tape that you can buy for about $5

A good starting point for timing would be 10* BTDC and go from there.
A test & tune day at the track would really help you dial in the timing or a trip to the dyno

SALIV8 · December 26th, 2006, 08:57 PM

hey nyhigh- The cam card should spec the timing it likes, but I would try 13 degrees to start. Double check to make sure you have the right size pushrods (length).

NYHigH · December 26th, 2006, 09:56 PM

Thanks guys, i appreciate that.......what should i do about this crazy idle though....it's idling at 1500.....and for some reason when i give more than half throttle, the secondary butterfly lever on the passenger side of the carb gets stuck on realese of throttle and stays at 3500rpm ......Weird huh? I have to get out of the car and give the lever an extra push cause the engine is screaming.

SALIV8 · December 26th, 2006, 11:37 PM

Im a fuel injected guy, but have you checked the curb idle adjustment screw? I think there may be two- one for high idle/and choke. Check all positions of adjustment screws- curb idle, high idle, choke etc. check your fast idle lever,A/c idle speed adjuster, etc... And your throttle position. I don't know what your carb has, hope that may help.

82GT · December 27th, 2006, 03:34 PM

Find out why the linkage on the secondaries is hanging up. It should all move freely.
I don't understand why you just can't turn the idle speed screw to get the desired idle speed.
Silly question but are you turning the correct one?

NYHigH · December 27th, 2006, 05:40 PM

You know what, i'm not even sure which one you mean....i know there are 2 flat head adjustment screws on each side of the carb, and than there are the float adjustments........i'm not near the car to look right now but where would the one your talking about be?

I'm not that good at the tuning thing yet so i appreciate the help.

SALIV8 · December 27th, 2006, 07:11 PM

Check this out NYhigh

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/...199R7923-2.pdf

82GT · December 28th, 2006, 12:01 AM

The idle speed screw should be on the driver side next to the throttle lever.

The two small screws you see in the front are the idle/air screws.
To set those, turn each one all the way in until the engine begins to stall and then turn it out about a half turn. Do one at a time!
Set your idle speed first and then set the other ones like I just said.

twinturbo · December 28th, 2006, 09:16 PM

The idle timing on a carb vehicle is not as important as the total. ASSUMING you have the correct centrifugal advance distributor, set the total, measured at 3500rpm, to 30*, and go from there. More than likley, this will give you 10-15 at idle, which is about right.

82GT · December 29th, 2006, 05:03 PM

I think he's talking about the idle SPEED...not the timing.

December 26th, 2006, 03:07 PM	#1
NYHigH Regular Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 170 iTrader: 0 reviews	Timing Question??? Hey, I have an 88 Mustang GT. I swaped the motor with a brand new 302 short block. I was told it was based on a 94 cobra block, and i added the following: Crane comp cam Trick flow twisted wedge heads 1.6 roller rockers hydraulic roller lifters trick flow push rods performer rpm intake msd ignition Holley 4150 hp series Carb 650cfm mechanical secondaries(no choke) My question is, i'm trying to adjust the timing as a starting to adjusting the carb because it's idling high. Does anyone know the correct timing for this setup or is it the same 10 degrees as stock? Can you also recommend what to do about the pulley, it's all rusted and i can't see the numbers and what type of timing light (i've heard some timing lights don't work well with MSD ignition. with that being said, i then will be off to adjust the carb after the timing. i took it to a mechanic a while back, and i was told that they can't get the idle down because it looks like someone drilled holes in the butterflies. i bought the carb brand new from summit. Is this the way the carb comes because it is a racing carb and is it too big for what i have ....or do you think someone altered it? I know there is a lot of questions here, but i've been dealing with this problem for a long time and i don't know what to do. Any help will be greatly appreciated . Thanks guys!

December 26th, 2006, 06:54 PM	#2
1slo5.0 MM Ninjas! 1990 Mustang LX 9.36@143 mph Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Fond du Lac, Wisconsin Posts: 11,375 iTrader: 1 reviews	You will have to play with the timing and see what the engine likes. You will need to clean the balancer up so you can see the marks. Spray around the carb with carb cleaner and see if the idle changes while its idling. You might have a vacuum leak. A 650 is not to big for that engine, it probably just needs some adjustment. __________________ My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm.... ***1988 Mustang GT - Stock....almost

December 26th, 2006, 08:48 PM	#3
82GT Regular Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Danville, Pa. Posts: 324 iTrader: 0 reviews	The reason someone drilled holes in the butterflies was because it was running rich at idle or had trouble getting a decent idle because of a radical cam. When that happens people to turn the idle up to get a decent idle to the point where the idle/air screws no longer work because the carb is now idling on the main circuit because too much of the transfer slot it exposed. Anyhow, holes in the butterflies should have NOTHING to do with not being able to adjust the idle. __________________ 1982 GT (t-top) 351w(.060),10:3, ported & polished iron heads, 1.94/1.60 valves, BBK shorties & flowmasters, 274XE cam, stealth intake, mallory dizzy, stealth intake, 750dp, Edge 3700 stall converter, C-4, 4:10's Best E.T 12.79@103.55mph

December 26th, 2006, 09:56 PM	#6
NYHigH Regular Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 170 iTrader: 0 reviews	RE Thanks guys, i appreciate that.......what should i do about this crazy idle though....it's idling at 1500.....and for some reason when i give more than half throttle, the secondary butterfly lever on the passenger side of the carb gets stuck on realese of throttle and stays at 3500rpm ......Weird huh? I have to get out of the car and give the lever an extra push cause the engine is screaming.

December 27th, 2006, 03:34 PM	#8
82GT Regular Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Danville, Pa. Posts: 324 iTrader: 0 reviews	Find out why the linkage on the secondaries is hanging up. It should all move freely. I don't understand why you just can't turn the idle speed screw to get the desired idle speed. Silly question but are you turning the correct one? __________________ 1982 GT (t-top) 351w(.060),10:3, ported & polished iron heads, 1.94/1.60 valves, BBK shorties & flowmasters, 274XE cam, stealth intake, mallory dizzy, stealth intake, 750dp, Edge 3700 stall converter, C-4, 4:10's Best E.T 12.79@103.55mph

December 26th, 2006, 08:57 PM	#5
SALIV8 all motor 92 coupe 9.94@136.40 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 576 iTrader: 0 reviews	hey nyhigh- The cam card should spec the timing it likes, but I would try 13 degrees to start. Double check to make sure you have the right size pushrods (length).

December 26th, 2006, 11:37 PM	#7
SALIV8 all motor 92 coupe 9.94@136.40 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 576 iTrader: 0 reviews	Im a fuel injected guy, but have you checked the curb idle adjustment screw? I think there may be two- one for high idle/and choke. Check all positions of adjustment screws- curb idle, high idle, choke etc. check your fast idle lever,A/c idle speed adjuster, etc... And your throttle position. I don't know what your carb has, hope that may help.

December 27th, 2006, 05:40 PM	#9
NYHigH Regular Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 170 iTrader: 0 reviews	You know what, i'm not even sure which one you mean....i know there are 2 flat head adjustment screws on each side of the carb, and than there are the float adjustments........i'm not near the car to look right now but where would the one your talking about be? I'm not that good at the tuning thing yet so i appreciate the help.

December 27th, 2006, 07:11 PM	#10
SALIV8 all motor 92 coupe 9.94@136.40 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 576 iTrader: 0 reviews	Try this Check this out NYhigh http://www.holley.com/data/Products/...199R7923-2.pdf

December 28th, 2006, 12:01 AM	#11
82GT Regular Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Danville, Pa. Posts: 324 iTrader: 0 reviews	The idle speed screw should be on the driver side next to the throttle lever. The two small screws you see in the front are the idle/air screws. To set those, turn each one all the way in until the engine begins to stall and then turn it out about a half turn. Do one at a time! Set your idle speed first and then set the other ones like I just said. __________________ 1982 GT (t-top) 351w(.060),10:3, ported & polished iron heads, 1.94/1.60 valves, BBK shorties & flowmasters, 274XE cam, stealth intake, mallory dizzy, stealth intake, 750dp, Edge 3700 stall converter, C-4, 4:10's Best E.T 12.79@103.55mph

December 28th, 2006, 09:16 PM	#12
twinturbo Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 60 iTrader: 0 reviews	The idle timing on a carb vehicle is not as important as the total. ASSUMING you have the correct centrifugal advance distributor, set the total, measured at 3500rpm, to 30*, and go from there. More than likley, this will give you 10-15 at idle, which is about right.

December 29th, 2006, 05:03 PM	#13
82GT Regular Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Danville, Pa. Posts: 324 iTrader: 0 reviews	I think he's talking about the idle SPEED...not the timing. __________________ 1982 GT (t-top) 351w(.060),10:3, ported & polished iron heads, 1.94/1.60 valves, BBK shorties & flowmasters, 274XE cam, stealth intake, mallory dizzy, stealth intake, 750dp, Edge 3700 stall converter, C-4, 4:10's Best E.T 12.79@103.55mph

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Timing Question???

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