Transmission Bind Up??

Unf6Stang · April 22nd, 2009, 10:03 PM

I have scoured through past forums and could not find anything about this subject so here is my question with some back round first. Very proud of dropping in our very first engine a 351w into a 1980 Mustang with a C4 transmission. It appears to be seated correctly and all the bellhousing bolts line up with the back of the engine and all of the torque converter screws line up with the flywheel holes but when we tried to turn the engine over manually to get to the rest of the flywheel/torque converter screws we couldn't get it to turn over.
I have a theory but this being my first time doing this I am not sure and thought I would get some expert knowledge on this before I waste a bunch of time. Could it be that the transmission or the motor is putting too much weight on one or the other causing something to bind up? Any help or ideas would be awesome and greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

88Saleen · April 22nd, 2009, 10:12 PM

are you absoutly positive you have the tq converter on all the way. if not, you pound the tranny to the engine, and possibly if you already tightened the tranny to the motor you could have broke your trans pump. when you slide the tq converter on the transmission, a rule of thumb is if you can fit your hand beind the tq converter bettween it and the bell housing, its not on. and im pretty sure there should be three sets of splines it needs to mesh with. pump, stator, and one more component of the tq converter but im drawing a blank as for the third comonent.

Unf6Stang · April 22nd, 2009, 10:17 PM

Yes, we made sure it was seated correctly before we put the motor on it, we haven't tightened the tranny to the motor all the way, we seated the motor on the mounts and put some of the bolts in to hold it in place but haven't thoroughly tightened them down yet.
What are the odds that even if we did seat the tq converter correctly it could have shaken out or been mis-seated when the engine was going in?

88Saleen · April 22nd, 2009, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Unf6Stang

Yes, we made sure it was seated correctly before we put the motor on it, we haven't tightened the tranny to the motor all the way, we seated the motor on the mounts and put some of the bolts in to hold it in place but haven't thoroughly tightened them down yet.
What are the odds that even if we did seat the tq converter correctly it could have shaken out or been mis-seated when the engine was going in?

just depends on how carefuly you installed the trans. i dont know anything about the setup and such, but im sure your running aftermaket bushings and mounts, are you sure the trans is straight with the motor. are you putting the output shaft in a bind is what im asking? do you have the trans mount or is it a cross member in already, or is it on the tranny jack still?

Unf6Stang · April 22nd, 2009, 10:31 PM

tranny jack is away, I am kind of thinking that it might be sitting cockeyed somewhere in the middle. I guess the main meat of my question was to see if this has happened to someone else and what a main cause is. I know its really specific haha but ya never know. Mounts are from a 302 which bolted right up to the motor. I might put the jack under it again and see if its not sitting right or off center or something and putting torque on the output shaft, I am kind of thinking that might be the main cause of my dilemma but I am not quite sure. Damn you trial and error. Gotta be a first time for everything I guess haha. Any suggestions in what I should check first before unbolting it all and trying again?

88Saleen · April 22nd, 2009, 10:34 PM

is the tq converter tight? grab it and see if you can turn it or move it at all?

89LX347 · April 22nd, 2009, 10:40 PM

this happened to me. and i to the tranny out and the converter was not on right, it was bound up in the tranny, you could turn it but it wasnt free wheeling like it should. tried to pull it off by hand and it wouldnt work, so we bolted some chains to it and hammered it off. there is about 3 times that it has to seat on the tranny, i dont think you have it on there well. mines was bolted all the way to the motor, looked perfect, even had the starter and crossmember on but the converter wasnt right. take it off and try it again

89LX347 · April 22nd, 2009, 10:41 PM

oh, and when you do get it right, the converter will not be flush with the bell housing, it will be about an inch in or so.

Unf6Stang · April 22nd, 2009, 10:42 PM

Well the motor is too close to the tranny to get to the tq =/

Unf6Stang · April 22nd, 2009, 10:44 PM

Alright I will go ahead and take just the tranny off and reseat the tq. Thank you for your help. I will prob. be on later and tell ya how it went and if it was right, I wouldn't doubt that's what it is.

1slo5.0 · April 22nd, 2009, 11:39 PM

Did you try putting the engine and trans together on the floor and then putting them in as one assembly at the same time? That eliminates pulling one or the other a time or two because something isn't right. If you put it all together on the floor and check everything right away then you know its good to go.

As far as the converter being in all the way, people screw this up all the time. You should feel it click or drop in the transmission 3 times. The converter will be deep in the bellhousing and you will probably have to pull it forward to the flexplate a bit when you bolt the engine to the trans. Chances are you damaged the pump if the converter isn't in all the way and you bolted the trans tight to the engine.

Did you try fitting the converter to the flywheel before you installed it in the trans to make sure the pilot fits in the back of the crank?

grnstang · April 22nd, 2009, 11:54 PM

yeah, it is much easier to drop it in in one piece. when you have it on the floor you have the best angles to work on it and make sure everything is exactly right instead of climbing around under the car with a flash light. take them both out and re do it...afternoon job

Unf6Stang · April 23rd, 2009, 04:53 AM

Well it took us about an hour and a half but we pulled down the transmission and reseated the TQ and sure enough when we put it back in it fit in and spun freely. Thank you all for your help, next time I think it's safe to say that we are putting it in engine and tranny in bolted together haha. About the pump, last time we didn't force the bolts in all the way cause we knew something didn't feel right we only had them threaded a few times at most, is that still going to cause issues to the tranny pump?

1slo5.0 · April 23rd, 2009, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Unf6Stang

Well it took us about an hour and a half but we pulled down the transmission and reseated the TQ and sure enough when we put it back in it fit in and spun freely. Thank you all for your help, next time I think it's safe to say that we are putting it in engine and tranny in bolted together haha. About the pump, last time we didn't force the bolts in all the way cause we knew something didn't feel right we only had them threaded a few times at most, is that still going to cause issues to the tranny pump?

I would have pulled the pump out and looked at it while you had the trans out. But I only like to do the job once so I like to be pretty thorough in my work. You will know if its bad when you try to drive the car.

89LX347 · April 23rd, 2009, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Unf6Stang

Well it took us about an hour and a half but we pulled down the transmission and reseated the TQ and sure enough when we put it back in it fit in and spun freely. Thank you all for your help, next time I think it's safe to say that we are putting it in engine and tranny in bolted together haha. About the pump, last time we didn't force the bolts in all the way cause we knew something didn't feel right we only had them threaded a few times at most, is that still going to cause issues to the tranny pump?

i think your pump will be fine. you will be able to tell if its not

88Saleen · April 23rd, 2009, 04:13 PM

yeah the pump should be fine if you didnt tighten the tranny up to the engine.

Unf6Stang · April 23rd, 2009, 10:55 PM

Alright sweet, thanks for the help. The car should be driveable within the next week or so, now to find an 8:8 rear-end. =)

April 22nd, 2009, 10:03 PM	#1
Unf6Stang Newbie 1998 Mustang Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 23 iTrader: 0 reviews	Transmission Bind Up?? I have scoured through past forums and could not find anything about this subject so here is my question with some back round first. Very proud of dropping in our very first engine a 351w into a 1980 Mustang with a C4 transmission. It appears to be seated correctly and all the bellhousing bolts line up with the back of the engine and all of the torque converter screws line up with the flywheel holes but when we tried to turn the engine over manually to get to the rest of the flywheel/torque converter screws we couldn't get it to turn over. I have a theory but this being my first time doing this I am not sure and thought I would get some expert knowledge on this before I waste a bunch of time. Could it be that the transmission or the motor is putting too much weight on one or the other causing something to bind up? Any help or ideas would be awesome and greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

April 22nd, 2009, 10:12 PM	#2
88Saleen Enthusiast 1988 Mustang Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grand Blanc, Michigan Posts: 832 iTrader: 0 reviews	are you absoutly positive you have the tq converter on all the way. if not, you pound the tranny to the engine, and possibly if you already tightened the tranny to the motor you could have broke your trans pump. when you slide the tq converter on the transmission, a rule of thumb is if you can fit your hand beind the tq converter bettween it and the bell housing, its not on. and im pretty sure there should be three sets of splines it needs to mesh with. pump, stator, and one more component of the tq converter but im drawing a blank as for the third comonent. Last edited by 88Saleen; April 22nd, 2009 at 10:15 PM.

April 22nd, 2009, 10:40 PM	#7
89LX347 Hardcore Enthusiast Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 iTrader: 0 reviews	this happened to me. and i to the tranny out and the converter was not on right, it was bound up in the tranny, you could turn it but it wasnt free wheeling like it should. tried to pull it off by hand and it wouldnt work, so we bolted some chains to it and hammered it off. there is about 3 times that it has to seat on the tranny, i dont think you have it on there well. mines was bolted all the way to the motor, looked perfect, even had the starter and crossmember on but the converter wasnt right. take it off and try it again __________________ I believe in art when it is not seen. I believe in music when it is not audible. I believe in God when He is silent.

April 22nd, 2009, 10:41 PM	#8
89LX347 Hardcore Enthusiast Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,304 iTrader: 0 reviews	oh, and when you do get it right, the converter will not be flush with the bell housing, it will be about an inch in or so. __________________ I believe in art when it is not seen. I believe in music when it is not audible. I believe in God when He is silent.

April 22nd, 2009, 11:39 PM	#11
1slo5.0 MM Ninjas! 1990 Mustang LX 9.36@143 mph Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Fond du Lac, Wisconsin Posts: 11,375 iTrader: 1 reviews	Did you try putting the engine and trans together on the floor and then putting them in as one assembly at the same time? That eliminates pulling one or the other a time or two because something isn't right. If you put it all together on the floor and check everything right away then you know its good to go. As far as the converter being in all the way, people screw this up all the time. You should feel it click or drop in the transmission 3 times. The converter will be deep in the bellhousing and you will probably have to pull it forward to the flexplate a bit when you bolt the engine to the trans. Chances are you damaged the pump if the converter isn't in all the way and you bolted the trans tight to the engine. Did you try fitting the converter to the flywheel before you installed it in the trans to make sure the pilot fits in the back of the crank? __________________ My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm.... ***1988 Mustang GT - Stock....almost

April 22nd, 2009, 10:17 PM	#3
Unf6Stang Newbie 1998 Mustang Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 23 iTrader: 0 reviews	Yes, we made sure it was seated correctly before we put the motor on it, we haven't tightened the tranny to the motor all the way, we seated the motor on the mounts and put some of the bolts in to hold it in place but haven't thoroughly tightened them down yet. What are the odds that even if we did seat the tq converter correctly it could have shaken out or been mis-seated when the engine was going in?

April 22nd, 2009, 10:31 PM	#5
Unf6Stang Newbie 1998 Mustang Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 23 iTrader: 0 reviews	tranny jack is away, I am kind of thinking that it might be sitting cockeyed somewhere in the middle. I guess the main meat of my question was to see if this has happened to someone else and what a main cause is. I know its really specific haha but ya never know. Mounts are from a 302 which bolted right up to the motor. I might put the jack under it again and see if its not sitting right or off center or something and putting torque on the output shaft, I am kind of thinking that might be the main cause of my dilemma but I am not quite sure. Damn you trial and error. Gotta be a first time for everything I guess haha. Any suggestions in what I should check first before unbolting it all and trying again?

April 22nd, 2009, 10:34 PM	#6
88Saleen Enthusiast 1988 Mustang Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grand Blanc, Michigan Posts: 832 iTrader: 0 reviews	is the tq converter tight? grab it and see if you can turn it or move it at all?

April 22nd, 2009, 10:42 PM	#9
Unf6Stang Newbie 1998 Mustang Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 23 iTrader: 0 reviews	Well the motor is too close to the tranny to get to the tq =/

April 22nd, 2009, 10:44 PM	#10
Unf6Stang Newbie 1998 Mustang Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 23 iTrader: 0 reviews	Alright I will go ahead and take just the tranny off and reseat the tq. Thank you for your help. I will prob. be on later and tell ya how it went and if it was right, I wouldn't doubt that's what it is.

April 22nd, 2009, 11:54 PM	#12
grnstang Hardcore Enthusiast 91 LX 13.7@101 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Norwalk OH Posts: 1,426 iTrader: 1 reviews	yeah, it is much easier to drop it in in one piece. when you have it on the floor you have the best angles to work on it and make sure everything is exactly right instead of climbing around under the car with a flash light. take them both out and re do it...afternoon job __________________

April 23rd, 2009, 04:53 AM	#13
Unf6Stang Newbie 1998 Mustang Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 23 iTrader: 0 reviews	Well it took us about an hour and a half but we pulled down the transmission and reseated the TQ and sure enough when we put it back in it fit in and spun freely. Thank you all for your help, next time I think it's safe to say that we are putting it in engine and tranny in bolted together haha. About the pump, last time we didn't force the bolts in all the way cause we knew something didn't feel right we only had them threaded a few times at most, is that still going to cause issues to the tranny pump?

April 23rd, 2009, 04:13 PM	#16
88Saleen Enthusiast 1988 Mustang Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grand Blanc, Michigan Posts: 832 iTrader: 0 reviews	yeah the pump should be fine if you didnt tighten the tranny up to the engine.

April 23rd, 2009, 10:55 PM	#17
Unf6Stang Newbie 1998 Mustang Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 23 iTrader: 0 reviews	Alright sweet, thanks for the help. The car should be driveable within the next week or so, now to find an 8:8 rear-end. =)

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