[Cloud Nine]

What do you guys think the hp/tq rating and e/t with an average driver would be with this setup;

stock block 302
victor junior heads
track heat intake (chose this because I thought supercharger could take care of higher rpms?)
f303 or e303 cam (i read these work fine with a supercharger?)
vortech v3 sc trim supercharger (5-6psi) Vortech 4FA218-010L - Vortech Centrifugal Supercharger Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com
2.87 pulley swap (unsure about psi after swap? 10-12?)
bypass valve
255 walbro fuel pump
75mm throttle body
76mm c&l maf
42 lb injectors
mild suspension (hotchkis control arms, subframes, radials, shocks)


what would be estimate of the e.t with an average driver and 3000 lb race weight?

Only plan on spinning it too 6000 rpms

Would the stock block handle this power?

Thanks

[flattusmaximus78]

Originally Posted by Cloud Nine What do you guys think the hp/tq rating and e/t with an average driver would be with this setup; stock block 302 victor junior heads track heat intake (chose this because I thought supercharger could take care of higher rpms?) f303 or e303 cam (i read these work fine with a supercharger?) vortech v3 sc trim supercharger (5-6psi) Vortech 4FA218-010L - Vortech Centrifugal Supercharger Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com 2.87 pulley swap (unsure about psi after swap? 10-12?) bypass valve 255 walbro fuel pump 75mm throttle body 76mm c&l maf 42 lb injectors mild suspension (hotchkis control arms, subframes, radials, shocks) what would be estimate of the e.t with an average driver and 3000 lb race weight? Only plan on spinning it too 6000 rpms Would the stock block handle this power? Thanks

Go with the fcam, I'd make sure you get proper springs for the cam, not just what comes on those heads.

Your going to atleast need to get a good metal bypass valve. Specifically the blue ones vortech sells.

Get a better maf.

2.87 on a 6.87 crank pulley with a heads cam is around 15 psi.

If you do it like that the car should make around 490 to 500 plus. If not then burn it.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by Cloud Nine What do you guys think the hp/tq rating and e/t with an average driver would be with this setup; stock block 302 victor junior heads track heat intake (chose this because I thought supercharger could take care of higher rpms?) f303 or e303 cam (i read these work fine with a supercharger?) vortech v3 sc trim supercharger (5-6psi) Vortech 4FA218-010L - Vortech Centrifugal Supercharger Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com 2.87 pulley swap (unsure about psi after swap? 10-12?) bypass valve 255 walbro fuel pump 75mm throttle body 76mm c&l maf 42 lb injectors mild suspension (hotchkis control arms, subframes, radials, shocks) what would be estimate of the e.t with an average driver and 3000 lb race weight? Only plan on spinning it too 6000 rpms Would the stock block handle this power? Thanks

Street radials? You are going to need alot more than what you have listed. I would ditch the C&L junk and the F cam and probably use a different intake for sure. A box intake would be my choice. Then you will need either an aftermarket computer or a chip and then you will need a tune. 500+ to the tire with that blower is possible and with any sort of a driver it will go high 10s. With a good driver, low 10s. I know someone with a similar combination that runs 9.90s.

[flattusmaximus78]

Originally Posted by 1slo5.0 Street radials? You are going to need alot more than what you have listed. I would ditch the C&L junk and the F cam and probably use a different intake for sure. A box intake would be my choice. Then you will need either an aftermarket computer or a chip and then you will need a tune. 500+ to the tire with that blower is possible and with any sort of a driver it will go high 10s. With a good driver, low 10s. I know someone with a similar combination that runs 9.90s.

Doubt he's going to do that though. The c & l and fcam are junk at the end of the day, but its what he's playing with. Thats a ton of boost for that combo regardless so it's enough to go tens as is with either cam if the car has decent suspension and tire.

[Cloud Nine]

Woah, Ok I dont want to risk that much on the stock block.

What if I just left the boost at 5-6 psi and no pulley, and switched to a pro m maf.

Would that be around 350-400 hp?

And what springs do you suggest with the vic junior heads?

[real57vetteguy]

give it about 8-10 lbs of boost, and correct fuel it will last. I would rather have a box intake for supercharged apps, but the one you have is fine, the alphabet cams arent up to par for alot of applications but they work well with forced induction. You have great heads for what you are doing, but I would change the springs. the stock ones will probably work find as long as you have a stock rev limiter, but double check. I had almost the same setup once with a 331 motor, that made 316 rwhp with 5 lbs of boost, a safe assumption is 17-21 hp per lb of boost, so if you can get a pully to give you about 8-10 you should hit 350. dont be scared of 10 lbs on a stock block. I had a friend running 17 lbs on a 150,000 stockblock and it lived on the drag strip till 200,000

[Cloud Nine]

What kind of springs do you suggest? Are these good?

Racing Head Service (RHS) 35972-01 - RHS Cylinder Head Parts Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

We may just end up getting a custom cam.

I don't really want to get a trick flow box intake because I read they have hood clearance issues.

Are there any other box intakes?

[fogged306]

Dont get valve springs until you get the cam. If you want to do it right, you'll want to get springs that match what spring rates the cam calls for.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by real57vetteguy give it about 8-10 lbs of boost, and correct fuel it will last. I would rather have a box intake for supercharged apps, but the one you have is fine, the alphabet cams arent up to par for alot of applications but they work well with forced induction. You have great heads for what you are doing, but I would change the springs. the stock ones will probably work find as long as you have a stock rev limiter, but double check. I had almost the same setup once with a 331 motor, that made 316 rwhp with 5 lbs of boost, a safe assumption is 17-21 hp per lb of boost, so if you can get a pully to give you about 8-10 you should hit 350. dont be scared of 10 lbs on a stock block. I had a friend running 17 lbs on a 150,000 stockblock and it lived on the drag strip till 200,000

Yep, the intake and cam will function in that engine but why do you think your 331 made 316rwhp with boost when most heads/cam/intake 5 liters make 320+rwhp with no boost? The reason for a blower or turbo is to make more power. If you make less power than a naturally aspirated engine then you are doing something wrong....

As for your advice about valve springs, you shouldn't be giving valve train advice. Valve springs are matched to the cam only and have nothing to do with the stock rev limiter or any other rev limiter for that matter. If someone took you advice they could end up with a pile of scrap metal for an engine.

[flattusmaximus78]

Yup, valves float when they float. It doesn't matter were your limiter is. I'd still get springs matched to what ever cam you get; fcam or a bcam regardless. Whether it's the final set up the engine sees or not thats part of the process of putting an engine together. When I did my vortech and fcam at the same time it floated so bad. Darrel told me it was valve springs and it was. Jboosty walked me through the rest.

[95StangMX]

[Cloud Nine]

Alright I'll be sure to get springs to match my cam.

Do you think if I left that blower at the 5-6 psi it comes with I would be somewhere around 400?

And what are some good box intakes that arent too pricey? I heard the trick flow box intake had hood clearance issues so I don't really want to go with that one.

[real57vetteguy]

Originally Posted by 1slo5.0 Yep, the intake and cam will function in that engine but why do you think your 331 made 316rwhp with boost when most heads/cam/intake 5 liters make 320+rwhp with no boost? The reason for a blower or turbo is to make more power. If you make less power than a naturally aspirated engine then you are doing something wrong.... As for your advice about valve springs, you shouldn't be giving valve train advice. Valve springs are matched to the cam only and have nothing to do with the stock rev limiter or any other rev limiter for that matter. If someone took you advice they could end up with a pile of scrap metal for an engine.

Why in the world do you think I said I would change the springs, that he needed to double check, as in with the cam manufacturer or consult the head manufacturer about the cam he is using? seems to me we are making the same point . As far as the 331 making 316 rwhp that was before I added the supercharger, I should have made that clear that was my fault, it made 376 on a stock pully making 4 lbsof boost.

[fogged306]

Originally Posted by real57vetteguy I had almost the same setup once with a 331 motor, that made 316 rwhp with 5 lbs of boost,

Originally Posted by real57vetteguy . As far as the 331 making 316 rwhp that was before I added the supercharger, I should have made that clear that was my fault, it made 376 on a stock pully making 4 lbsof boost.

I like turtles

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by real57vetteguy but I would change the springs. the stock ones will probably work find as long as you have a stock rev limiter, but double check.

This is what I was refering to. You said the stock springs will probably work fine with the stock rev limiter. The rev limiter has nothing to do with what valve springs will work. Nothing at all. Valve float doesn't just occur at high rpm. It occurs at all rpm.

Originally Posted by real57vetteguy I had almost the same setup once with a 331 motor, that made 316 rwhp with 5 lbs of boost

Originally Posted by real57vetteguy As far as the 331 making 316 rwhp that was before I added the supercharger, I should have made that clear that was my fault, it made 376 on a stock pully making 4 lbsof boost.

I see a contradiction here. Either way, 316rwhp with a 331 tells me this was a poor combination. Most off the shelf heads/cam/intake 302s make 320+rwhp.

[Cloud Nine]

So can anyone help me out with my earlier question. lol

[real57vetteguy]

Cloud nine
As for your advice about valve springs, you shouldn't be giving valve train advice. Valve springs are matched to the cam only and have nothing to do with the stock rev limiter or any other rev limiter for that matter. If someone took you advice they could end up with a pile of scrap metal for an engine.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=flattusmaximus78;3512331]Yup, valves float when they float. It doesn't matter were your limiter is. QUOTE]

Wow I am a bit lost as to your one sided way of thinking, alot of head manufacturers will install springs that will operate fine using adequate sized cams, due to the fact that the car is only turning 5250 rpms, if your spring is not properly sized, over reving, or extreme high rpms can cause valve float, and damage to Springs, valvetrain etc. so the fucking rev limiter can prevent valve float in some cases because it keeps the accidental 7200 rpm missed shift from happening. Here is the very Dictionary fucking definition of valve float:
"Valve Float: At very high RPM, an engine condition in which the valve lifters actually float because the valve springs are not strong enough to overcome the momentum of the various valvetrain components. This can be fixed by replacing the springs, but extended periods of valve float will damage the valvetrain beyond repair."

I dont know if this constant valve float you talk about is bacause you stuck some valve springs for a 2.3 liter on a set of trick flows for your 347 but rpms, and rev limiters do have alot to do with valve float!

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by real57vetteguy Wow I am a bit lost as to your one sided way of thinking, alot of head manufacturers will install springs that will operate fine using adequate sized cams, due to the fact that the car is only turning 5250 rpms, if your spring is not properly sized, over reving, or extreme high rpms can cause valve float, and damage to Springs, valvetrain etc. so the fucking rev limiter can prevent valve float in some cases because it keeps the accidental 7200 rpm missed shift from happening. Here is the very Dictionary fucking definition of valve float: "Valve Float: At very high RPM, an engine condition in which the valve lifters actually float because the valve springs are not strong enough to overcome the momentum of the various valvetrain components. This can be fixed by replacing the springs, but extended periods of valve float will damage the valvetrain beyond repair." I dont know if this constant valve float you talk about is bacause you stuck some valve springs for a 2.3 liter on a set of trick flows for your 347 but rpms, and rev limiters do have alot to do with valve float!

You are way off and your tone and chest thumping is making you look like an idiot. Valve float does not just happen at high rpm or peak rpm or past peak rpm. The definition you posted is wrong. Your sarcasm regarding using 2.3 springs on Trick Flow heads further illustrates that you really do not understand how a valvetrain works and you are trying to shadow that with poor sarcasm. No, rev limiters have nothing at all to do with valve float.

I posted one of my own dyno graphs on here a while back that showed severe valve float. You couldn't feel it in the car until about 7200 rpm but the graph shows it was happening alot sooner than that. This was due to a few valve springs being weak.

[Cloud Nine]

Well I'm thinking of getting new springs anyway because I'm doing a rebuild anyway.

I'm probably also gonna just leave the blower at 5-6 psi. I think that should leave me kinda safely at 400 rwhp.

What causes the heads to lift? To much boost and too high compression? How do you prevent it?

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by Cloud Nine Well I'm thinking of getting new springs anyway because I'm doing a rebuild anyway. I'm probably also gonna just leave the blower at 5-6 psi. I think that should leave me kinda safely at 400 rwhp. What causes the heads to lift? To much boost and too high compression? How do you prevent it?

With 5-6 psi you won't have to worry about heads lifting. Things that will cause that are high psi with cheap hardware, thin deck surface, warped heads or deck, etc.