[99Ls1fever]

As, I stated in the introduction new members thread. I have been a LSX LTX Guy forever and am Past burned out and wanted to go a new direction. So, I now have a 92' GT and a 80' Linc. TC. 351w 2bbl and an AOD. That will be getting transplanted into the Foxbody.
I have been crusing throgh this site all day and going through the archieves of posts and there seem to be very knowledge 351w guys here. I AM NOT ONE MY SELF.
Car is going to be a 90% Strip Car, until emissons is gone again in our county.
Goals:
*Keep stock internals in motor tell they blow then forge and stroke motor to a 408.
*Once Motor Blows I am going to 0n 3 Performance 351w Turbo Kit.
*So all mods from here out will be directed towards not having to back track. (buying parts twice)
*Switch 2 bbl manifold to 4bbl manifold (could use advice on this) Air Gap, Victor Jr, Etc)
*CARB (I have been talking on "theturboforums.com" ) and came to the conclusion that a Quick Fuel Blow Through Carb w/ Annular Boosters is the way to go. Opnions?
*Cam that i am ideally looking at, is the F303 Cam Retro Fit. Converting to roller, and since the cam is a 114 lsa it makes a good Forced Induction Cam and there are numerous people running 10's and below with this cam. Now Since this is a 302 Cam, I am under the understanding I need to run 302 firing order correct? Also with running this cam on a stock motor is my Piston to Valve clearance going to be an issue?
*Pushrods? On cam swaps on SBF do I need to get chromemoly push rods? , and if so what length?
*Ignotion??? Here is where I start to lose the grasp. Idea would be MSD Pro-Billet Dist, Blaster 2, 6AL Box (opnions) do I need the 6AL-2 for running boost?
*Will be putting a Main Girdle on the block.
*Heads- planning on AFR 205's
*Head Studs will be ordered and put in with h/c install.
Also, I believe I will need to use drop soild motor mounts on the 351 and I know I have to run a different oil pan ( is there and oil pan kit WITH a high volvume oil pump). I have found a millon pan and pump kits just not one that says specific high volume oil pump & pan.
Thanks

[69fastback]

I see a few things with this......most notably, the cam. Do not put that cam in a 351. They were designed for a 302, and they suck for that, and would really suck in a 351. They're old junk, and their best use would be for a paperweight. No letter cams, for any engine, ever.......


What kind of power are you looking to make, and whats the budget?

I think you're taking a risk with your plan of buying nice parts, and putting them on stock internals, with basically having intentions of blowing it up, and then building it up. For one, if the internals break, you'll likely trash the block anyways. Secondly, if you invest a few grand in heads, you could tear them up as well.

For an intake, no less than a Vic Jr. Super Vic would be better

You'll get varying opinions on a carb. I'm using Pro-Systems on mine. Once you get your combo figured out, fill out their build sheet, and they'll build you one. Prices are comparable to any performance carb.

For a cam, custom will always be best, and they don't cost much more. There are several good places like Bullet, Cam motion, FTI, ect... Do nonuse a POS letter cam, or any other 302 cam.

Anytime you change cam, heads, ect, you'll have to measure for pushrod length. You'll be running guide plates, so you will need hardened pushrods.

P to V clearance will always have to be checked. If you're going to stick with the stock bottom end plan, which I think is a terrible idea, you might look into TW heads, because they'll give you more clearance, and are better heads anyways IMO. You will be able to run more cam with them, without notching the pistons, and have a better performing head. If you stick with AFRs, I'd go with 225s. A 205 TW will flow comparable to an AFR 225.


That's a start...... Lol

[93hatch]

turbo=go fuel injected super vic

[fogged306]

If you blow the bottom end, chances are it will be the block that splits, cap chatter is what kills these blocks. Depending on the year block you get, it will take quite a bit of power before the block lets go. A main girdle won't do anything but hold the two halves of the block together when it splits, just get some main studs and line bore it with the studs on there. IMO you will be better off doing TF high ports than the AFR's. The AFR's are a good head, but inline heads tend to shroud the valves on 4" bore ford engines. Twisted Wedge heads rotate the intake valve to unshroud it and the high ports have the valves more towards the center of the cylinder to unshroud them better than a normal inline valve head.

[flattusmaximus78]

That motor combo wont ever let go unless you buy a shitty motor to start with. Get the super vic with those heads on the stock cam with the 302 on 3 kit and the car will go stupid deep into the 10s.

[99Ls1fever]

Originally Posted by 69fastback I see a few things with this......most notably, the cam. Do not put that cam in a 351. They were designed for a 302, and they suck for that, and would really suck in a 351. They're old junk, and their best use would be for a paperweight. No letter cams, for any engine, ever....... What kind of power are you looking to make, and whats the budget? I think you're taking a risk with your plan of buying nice parts, and putting them on stock internals, with basically having intentions of blowing it up, and then building it up. For one, if the internals break, you'll likely trash the block anyways. Secondly, if you invest a few grand in heads, you could tear them up as well. For an intake, no less than a Vic Jr. Super Vic would be better You'll get varying opinions on a carb. I'm using Pro-Systems on mine. Once you get your combo figured out, fill out their build sheet, and they'll build you one. Prices are comparable to any performance carb. For a cam, custom will always be best, and they don't cost much more. There are several good places like Bullet, Cam motion, FTI, ect... Do nonuse a POS letter cam, or any other 302 cam. Anytime you change cam, heads, ect, you'll have to measure for pushrod length. You'll be running guide plates, so you will need hardened pushrods. P to V clearance will always have to be checked. If you're going to stick with the stock bottom end plan, which I think is a terrible idea, you might look into TW heads, because they'll give you more clearance, and are better heads anyways IMO. You will be able to run more cam with them, without notching the pistons, and have a better performing head. If you stick with AFRs, I'd go with 225s. A 205 TW will flow comparable to an AFR 225. That's a start...... Lol

I will look into the trick flow tw heads. What size runners on the trick flow wedge's are the ideal head? 225's? 215's? It is going to be boosted and stroked in the future so I would assume the 225's???

The budget isnt unlimited, but as long as we arent getting stupid its afforadable.

Goals are: Lets see where it goes from here. it will be a turbo build, and at some point a fully forged stroker motor. Mean time I just want to find a solid heads, cam and intake setup and get on the car and put the motor in the vehicle and take the car out a few times while I am getting the assortment of parts together.

I thought that the cam was a good selection because I wanted to run hyd roller and i wanted a wide LSA 114 for FI. And there were numerous people running 8's and 800 hp-up on this cam. Blow-thru database "ONLY", no replies or comments, etc.
But I am up for different approach. I just need a link or some specs to get a feel for a good cam. So, I have a general Idea.

Originally Posted by 93hatch turbo=go fuel injected super vic

I am going to keep it carb-ed and do a blow through carb. I have been running efi for a while and am burned out and want a new challange.

Originally Posted by fogged306 If you blow the bottom end, chances are it will be the block that splits, cap chatter is what kills these blocks. Depending on the year block you get, it will take quite a bit of power before the block lets go. A main girdle won't do anything but hold the two halves of the block together when it splits, just get some main studs and line bore it with the studs on there. IMO you will be better off doing TF high ports than the AFR's. The AFR's are a good head, but inline heads tend to shroud the valves on 4" bore ford engines. Twisted Wedge heads rotate the intake valve to unshroud it and the high ports have the valves more towards the center of the cylinder to unshroud them better than a normal inline valve head.

If I break the block I will get a ford racing block or an aftermarket company block. I just want to get a feel for SBF and a idea of what i am working with. I like the idea of the tw heads. it seems to make perfect. I will have to look into them more and read up on them. Trick Flow seems to have the heads game down pretty well in all make motors. What size runners 225's on the tw heads? what are most of you guys running or believe is ideal?

Originally Posted by flattusmaximus78 That motor combo wont ever let go unless you buy a shitty motor to start with. Get the super vic with those heads on the stock cam with the 302 on 3 kit and the car will go stupid deep into the 10s.

tf heads? super vic seems to be the overall sence so far what makes it such an attractive intake high rpm range and runners? what is a 302 on 3 kit?

[69fastback]

Tf heads = trick flow

Nobody is making 800 on an e cam without some serious forced induction. If you do some more research, you'll find those cams are junk. There are plenty of cams with a wide LSA.

Super Vic just flows more air. The advertised RPM don't mean much. It will make power well below, and above the advertised range, with the right cam. This is why a custom cam is so good. It takes in the whole combo, and will give you more power, and driveablity throughout. Even if you go with an OTS cam, just about any of them are better than a letter cam.

[99Ls1fever]

I knew tf stood for trick flow.

What is a OTS Cam? Not fimilar with the termonology. And I am going to run boost to it 100% positive! I would imagine on stock motor I would only be running under 8lbs???

I would imagine with a vic jr wouldn't fit under a stock hood, since I would be looking in to to the vic jr what size cowl will I have to run on a fox to clear the hood???

[flattusmaximus78]

On 3 performance is a turbo company. They make a $1700 dollar kit for 351s and 302s. Because I told you to stick to a 302, I was only referring you to their kit that thay make for 302s specifically.

[gotn20]

i'm going down the same road. I am haveing a 408 built by ford strokers and Going with the big on 3 kit for 351's. I can't wait

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by 99Ls1fever As, I stated in the introduction new members thread. I have been a LSX LTX Guy forever and am Past burned out and wanted to go a new direction. So, I now have a 92' GT and a 80' Linc. TC. 351w 2bbl and an AOD. That will be getting transplanted into the Foxbody. I have been crusing throgh this site all day and going through the archieves of posts and there seem to be very knowledge 351w guys here. I AM NOT ONE MY SELF. Car is going to be a 90% Strip Car, until emissons is gone again in our county. Goals: *Keep stock internals in motor tell they blow then forge and stroke motor to a 408. *Once Motor Blows I am going to 0n 3 Performance 351w Turbo Kit. *So all mods from here out will be directed towards not having to back track. (buying parts twice) *Switch 2 bbl manifold to 4bbl manifold (could use advice on this) Air Gap, Victor Jr, Etc) *CARB (I have been talking on "theturboforums.com" ) and came to the conclusion that a Quick Fuel Blow Through Carb w/ Annular Boosters is the way to go. Opnions? *Cam that i am ideally looking at, is the F303 Cam Retro Fit. Converting to roller, and since the cam is a 114 lsa it makes a good Forced Induction Cam and there are numerous people running 10's and below with this cam. Now Since this is a 302 Cam, I am under the understanding I need to run 302 firing order correct? Also with running this cam on a stock motor is my Piston to Valve clearance going to be an issue? *Pushrods? On cam swaps on SBF do I need to get chromemoly push rods? , and if so what length? *Ignotion??? Here is where I start to lose the grasp. Idea would be MSD Pro-Billet Dist, Blaster 2, 6AL Box (opnions) do I need the 6AL-2 for running boost? *Will be putting a Main Girdle on the block. *Heads- planning on AFR 205's *Head Studs will be ordered and put in with h/c install. Also, I believe I will need to use drop soild motor mounts on the 351 and I know I have to run a different oil pan ( is there and oil pan kit WITH a high volvume oil pump). I have found a millon pan and pump kits just not one that says specific high volume oil pump & pan. Thanks

Wow, I don't know where to start. You won't want to run the stock bottom end. At least not the stock pistons. Depending on your horsepower goals, the crank and rods will probably need to be changed too. And your run it until it blows idea is a foolish one. When it blows it will likely damage other parts like the heads, cam, oil pan, etc. Its always cheaper to do it right the first time. You don't need to retrofit anything with the cam. Get some link bar lifters. Don't use the stock type hydraulic roller lifters in a non roller block.....ever! The F303 is a bad choice for a cam. And there is more to a cam than lobe separation. Either way always check piston to valve clearance. As with any engine, push rod length will have to be measured.

MSD is always a good choice for ignition parts.

Main girdles are useless and a waste of money.

302 engine mounts will work with a 351W.

Use a high capacity oil pan with a standard volume oil pump. High volume pumps rob horsepower, put stress on the distributor and in most applications pump too much oil anyway. You also don't need to fill the pan. The extra volume in the pan is to keep the oil off the crank and the design of the pan is the major thing.

Since your Mustang is EFI it would be wise to keep it EFI because it will be easier to tune with forced induction.

[99Ls1fever]

Originally Posted by flattusmaximus78 On 3 performance is a turbo company. They make a $1700 dollar kit for 351s and 302s. Because I told you to stick to a 302, I was only referring you to their kit that thay make for 302s specifically.

Yeah that is the turbo kit I have been planning on running. Once I get the heads cam and intake on the motor I will be ordering this kit.

Originally Posted by 1slo5.0 Wow, I don't know where to start. You won't want to run the stock bottom end. At least not the stock pistons. Depending on your horsepower goals, the crank and rods will probably need to be changed too. And your run it until it blows idea is a foolish one. When it blows it will likely damage other parts like the heads, cam, oil pan, etc. Its always cheaper to do it right the first time. You don't need to retrofit anything with the cam. Get some link bar lifters. Don't use the stock type hydraulic roller lifters in a non roller block.....ever! The F303 is a bad choice for a cam. And there is more to a cam than lobe separation. Either way always check piston to valve clearance. As with any engine, push rod length will have to be measured. MSD is always a good choice for ignition parts. Main girdles are useless and a waste of money. 302 engine mounts will work with a 351W. Use a high capacity oil pan with a standard volume oil pump. High volume pumps rob horsepower, put stress on the distributor and in most applications pump too much oil anyway. You also don't need to fill the pan. The extra volume in the pan is to keep the oil off the crank and the design of the pan is the major thing. Since your Mustang is EFI it would be wise to keep it EFI because it will be easier to tune with forced induction.

I am not running EFI, I am going to run a blow thru carb. What are the best hyd rollers to run in a 351w? Are the Ford Racing hydr lifters a good choice?

What cam specs do you believe would be ideal for a turbo 351w build? Running a victor jr, 750cfm carb, 70mm turbo. Even a link would help me out.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by 99Ls1fever I am not running EFI, I am going to run a blow thru carb. What are the best hyd rollers to run in a 351w? Are the Ford Racing hydr lifters a good choice? What cam specs do you believe would be ideal for a turbo 351w build? Running a victor jr, 750cfm carb, 70mm turbo. Even a link would help me out.

Why do you want to mess with a blow thru carb? Just wondering...

I'm not a camshaft expert and especially not on forced induction cams. I do know that the alphabet cams are old technology and the lobes are not consistent on them. You can probably find an off the shelf cam that will work. I'd call Comp Cams tech line and pick their brain. Or call Cam Motion for a custom cam.

You will need a lifter like this if you use a hydraulic roller.
COMP Cams 8931-16 - COMP Cams Pro Magnum Hydraulic Roller Lifters - Overview - SummitRacing.com
or
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-21400006 - Trick Flow® Hydraulic Roller Lifters - Overview - SummitRacing.com

[99Ls1fever]

Cool, thanks for the links. I have talked with Summitracing tech today over the phone and they were saying not to run over at .540 lift came on stock bottom end or there will be piston tap. But if I run the trick flow tw heads I could run up to a .550 on stock bottom end.

Whats the differance on running these lifter compared to the lifters that come in this cam kit? These lifters are ford racing.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CMB-09-0021/

I want to run stock bottom end tell I blow it, ONLY because I have never built a SBF, and I want to get a feel for the motor and an understanding of what combo I am running and the performance I can get out of it.

When it blows = Final motor build

I will have bought a ford racing block or a 351w aftermarket block and 408 stroker crank and rods "waiting on pistons determend at that point in time" And then I can have a better feel for cam selection size duration and how the car feels and track times. I have ZERO idea how a foxbody even drives let alone building a motor for one. Like I said before. I have only been a GM LSX LTX guy and have built 4 gm motors in the specific field. Everything else is NEW.

[69fastback]

P to V clearance has more to do with duration than lift. There is no answer how big a cam you can safely run on it. The only way to know, is buy the heads and cam, and check it. You really shouldn't limit yourself with that though. It costs like $50 to get the pistons notched for clearance.

[99Ls1fever]

How safe is it to notch stock pistons?

[69fastback]

Perfectly safe.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by 99Ls1fever Cool, thanks for the links. I have talked with Summitracing tech today over the phone and they were saying not to run over at .540 lift came on stock bottom end or there will be piston tap. But if I run the trick flow tw heads I could run up to a .550 on stock bottom end. Whats the differance on running these lifter compared to the lifters that come in this cam kit? These lifters are ford racing. Summit Racing 09-0021 - Summit Racing® Camshaft and Lifter Kit Pro Packs - Overview - SummitRacing.com I want to run stock bottom end tell I blow it, ONLY because I have never built a SBF, and I want to get a feel for the motor and an understanding of what combo I am running and the performance I can get out of it. When it blows = Final motor build I will have bought a ford racing block or a 351w aftermarket block and 408 stroker crank and rods "waiting on pistons determend at that point in time" And then I can have a better feel for cam selection size duration and how the car feels and track times. I have ZERO idea how a foxbody even drives let alone building a motor for one. Like I said before. I have only been a GM LSX LTX guy and have built 4 gm motors in the specific field. Everything else is NEW.

The person you talked to is wrong and gave an "out of the book" response. Valve timing events play a bigger role than lift. I would pick the cam, check valve to piston clearance and then cut the valve reliefs more if needed.

Those lifters will not work. Like I said in other posts, you need link bar lifters like the ones in the links I posted.

Good luck with your blow up theory. Just remember, the turbo gets oil from the engine so you will likely need a new turbo after all of that shrapnel runs thru your turbo. Good luck.

[flattusmaximus78]

You def want the 76mm, the 70mm is is better off for 302s. You have the cubes so use them to your advantage.

[mustangtommy]

Originally Posted by 1slo5.0 The person you talked to is wrong and gave an "out of the book" response. Valve timing events play a bigger role than lift. I would pick the cam, check valve to piston clearance and then cut the valve reliefs more if needed. Those lifters will not work. Like I said in other posts, you need link bar lifters like the ones in the links I posted. Good luck with your blow up theory. Just remember, the turbo gets oil from the engine so you will likely need a new turbo after all of that shrapnel runs thru your turbo. Good luck.

Why wouldn't you want to run a retro fit kit?
Just curious cause i have been running a roller cam and stock 302 roller lifters in a non roller block for like 10000 miles and never had an inkling of problems all you need to do is drill and tap the block for the spyder bar