[kevnsue]

I have a 1989 mustang with these up grades.
1) Trick Flow Heads (Ported)
2) Trick flow Stage 2 Cam
3) Trick flow intake
4) C&L 73 mm mass air Calibrated to 24lb injectors
5) BBK Cold air intake
6) BBK 70mm Throttle body and 70mm EGR Plate
7) 24lbs Injectors
8) BBK Adjustable fuel pressure reg.
9) BBK Long tube headers with X-pipe No cats.
10) Trick Flow Nitrous plate.
I have no computer chips or tunes at this point.
The car is running very rich and does not want to idle. Trick flow said it was becouse of the overlap on the cam.
I have been told that I need a dyno tune. Do you guys agree? SCT is the chip that they are talking about using But this is I thought exspensive. Maybe not. 600.00 is alot of money to me but I also want it to be right. Give me some advise I am new to all of this so any help would be much appreciated. Thanks Kevin

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[HMUSN]

You need a tune man.

you will love yourself for doing it.

[Drick]

yes you definitly need to tune

[TurboLX]

TUNE IT TUNE IT TUNE IT!

[kevnsue]

Looks Like the Tunes Have It !!!!
Thanks Guys. P.S Is 600.00 a good price for a dyno tune or should I keep shopping.

[TurboLX]

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!! keep shopping buddy

[TurboLX]

my shop offers $350 for a dyno run and a good tune, depending on the car

[kevnsue]

one shop wants 800.00 to a 1000.00 for it. He said the SCT chip was 400.00 and the dyno and the tune was the rest of it and he wants the car for one week to work out all cold starting issues EXC... The other place wants 200.00 for the SCT chip and 400.00 for the dyno and the tune. I have not found any place else in washington State to go. If any body knows of any way around this or of a good shop, let me know. Thanks Kevin

[ckthecerealkiller]

The other place wants 200.00 for the SCT chip and 400.00 for the dyno and the tune.

I would take that price, that isn't bad. If you have your car in good condition why the hell would he need it for an entire fricken week???

[kevnsue]

To go racing I think. LOL

[Mr_Evil]

Buy a Piggy Back ECU, then tell them to tune it (if you cant yourself). Chips suck. Chips are for mildly upgraded motors.

[kevnsue]

Originally Posted by Mr_Evil Buy a Piggy Back ECU, then tell them to tune it (if you cant yourself). Chips suck. Chips are for mildly upgraded motors.

What is a piggy back ECU and what brands do they have? I will look into it. Thanks again Kevin

[Mr_Evil]

Seeing you have Mass Air, an Apexi SAFC (Apexi Super Air Flow Converter 2) would work well for you. There are more out there that are more advance. Like Greddy. But that Apexi should suit you well.

[ScratchinFerTraction]

Where are you located, maybe someone can offer a reputable shop.

I go to SGS Automotive in South Central PA
http://sgsperformance.com/pricing.htm

The tuner Dave Guy set up the 2 time Renegade champion and I was out the door for $563 with a SCT chip purchase, some minor labor, and 2 hours of tuning.

Shop around and get suggestions.

[Mr_Evil]

3 pulls for a $100! I know the Dyno is an expensive tool. But who can afford to use it at those prices!? 3 pulls aint enough to tune much.

Getting into the discussion of what is the best way to go in tuning can be a deep one.

Chips have a wide range of types and limitations. Usually when talking "Chips" one refers to preprogrammed ones. (those are for mildly modded cars) Then some chips are reflashed/programmed with either their special tool or laptop. Some/many of those are limited by what the ECU will allow. Ones that are programmable via laptop are better than ones that can only be changed via some special thing the shop has. Because if you have to have a special programming tool every time you need to adjust some thing. That means you are locked into going to that shop for every minor change. Thus making them lord over your car.

Piggy Back ECUs intercept sensor signals and change readings and out puts that trick/fool the ECU. Usually giving you a tuneabilty of about 30% + or - in fuel delivery in a fuel map. Plus you can change your ignition timing map. That should be enough for most applications. But with PB-ECUs there are different levels. Because you can rewire your fuel injectors to like a Greddy PB-ECU and you will have infinite fuel level adjustability.

Fully adjustable aftermarket ECUs is the best way to go. Nothing you cant do with them. But you have to rewire your stuff usually, and it will require a laptop to program (some piggy-backs do also). Plus they are a little more expensive.

So, after giving you that briefing. My opinion is this. If that chip isnt fully programmable, and you cant tap into it with a laptop. I wouldt spend money on it. Especially if you are wanting to do Dyno pulls and all. It is a waste. Chips were like the first band-aid that hit the user end market for this FI tuning problem.

[neverfastenough]

First, I am not arguing that piggy backs aren't far superior to chips, but aren't they also far more expensive? Said 3 pulls for 100 bucks to monitor the air fuel mix and unlimited pulls for performance tuning at 150 first hour and 100 every other hour. I have never been to a dyno but from what I heard that might not be a bad price. I'll be going with the piggyback myself when I get back and start buildind my car, but he is already talking about expesiveness. I know that's not really a word. By the way thanks for all that info on the piggyback!

[neverfastenough]

That things not that expensive at all, but I will have to read up on it some more tomorrow.

[ScratchinFerTraction]

Mr. Evil
The $100 for 3 pulls if for those that want hp numbers only.

The $150 1st hour and $100 every hour after is unlimited pulls for tuning purposes. You buy the chip there and pay only the $150 if you ever go back, assuming you get done in 1 hour.
Stan

[Kevin b]

Ok So if I were to buy a piggy back PCM Would I not be just guessing on if the car was getting what it needed and wsa making the most HP it could with what it has got? Or would you still after buying a piggy back controler. Want to have some dyno pulls to get the most out of the controler also. I am very nervous about buying something for say 600.00 dollars and I still have to rely on a shop with a dyno to fine tune things. I am not dumb but I also am no rocket sientist, As you could probably tell from my writing and spelling skills. For example I have a hard time downloading music from limewire onto my ipod. And this seems more complicated then that. But if you guys who deal with this stuff and use it and think it is something I coud do my self, Let me know I will give it a shot. But I need to know that what I buy was money well spent and not just pissed away. Thanks guys for all your help.

[Mr_Evil]

Well, an Apexi SAFC Neo is about $250 on Ebay. The most difficult thing about it will be splicing in to the wires near the ECU. Only reason that is difficult is because you gotta' find what wire is what. But someone should have that info, so you just need to find the info. Thats the hassle. As for how much electronic technical skills it requires... It takes no more skill than that chip you were looking at would take. Actually, tuning with the Apexi unit is probably going to be the easiest out of all of the others. Easiest FI tuning tool. The in car controls make it quite simple. No need for much computer knowledge. Seeing that you can actually work your IPod, I think you could tune with it. The other FI tuning tools that require a laptop will require more computer knowledge. As for Dyno pulls. If you can afford them (and $150 an hour does sound better), why not get them. After tinkering around, and driving the car around. You should be able to get your car in decent tune (if you understand air/fuel ratio's & timing). But, doing Dyno pulls will put your tune in the next level.