Timing PIP signal on MSD distributor

dirty_d · October 28th, 2011, 12:58 PM

When re-installing my distributor I oriented it so that when the rotor is pointing at the #1 terminal the short tooth on the magnetic wheel is lined up with the hall effect sensor. Is this the correct orientation? The timing is fine otherwise, but I don't really have any way to know of the injectors are opening at the right time.

ryanw · October 28th, 2011, 01:10 PM

How I did mine was. I lined my balancer up with zero on the timing pointer and droped in the distributor pointing at number one cylinder. Now if it doesn't run right then your 180 degrees off. To make sure your not 180 off. Pull the spark plug on number 1. Turn your crank until you feel air being pushed out of the spark plug hole. Rotate the crank a little more on till you are on zero. Then drop distributor in pointing at number one cylinder. Then start her up and set the timing.

ryanw · October 28th, 2011, 01:12 PM

This method will not work if your balancer has spun.

dirty_d · October 28th, 2011, 01:26 PM

I have the spark timing correct, no problem there. I just don't know if the injector timing is correct. The ECU detects #1 base timing BTDC by a shorter pulse out of the PIP pin on the distributor so it can calculate when to open the injectors on the intake strokes of the correct cylinders. You can install the distributor in a bunch of different ways and still get the correct spark timing, but have the injectors open on the compression stroke etc. It will still run too.

If the rotor is pointing to cylinder #1 at TDC does that guarantee the correct PIP timing?

ryanw · October 28th, 2011, 01:31 PM

That's all news to me' I don't know any thing about that. Sorry I couldn't help

Mustang Boy · October 28th, 2011, 01:45 PM

This is all news to me also. When I installed my MSD distributor I just marked on my stock lower distributor cap where the rotor was facing, I then took the lower cap off and mounted it to my new MSD distributor. I took my stock distributor out and stabbed my new MSD in and lined the mark on the lower cap with the rotor, tightened the hold down bolt and swapped on the MSD upper and lower cap. Car started up on the first try with no problems at all.

dirty_d · October 28th, 2011, 02:41 PM

Yea the thing is if it is wrong you probably won't even be able to tell. The engine would just make less horsepower than it potentially could and get worse MPG because the fuel wouldn't be properly atomized. The fuel would pool up because the air in the runner isn't moving, then that pool would need to get sucked into the cylinder when the intake valve opens.

From what I've read the rising edge of the PIP pulses are what tell the ECU when each piston is at 10deg BTDC(or whatever your base timing is) on the compression stroke. The #1 cylinder has a shorter pulse than the rest so it can be identified. The teeth on that rotor block the magnetic field from getting to the sensor, so i think I might have it wrong, I need the beginning of the empty space before the short tooth to line up with the sensor when the spark rotor lines up with plug #1.

JBIGBOOTSY · October 28th, 2011, 10:35 PM

5.0's fire 4 injectors at a time, all passenger side, and all drivers side. It is not sequential.

fogged306 · October 29th, 2011, 02:24 AM

HO's are sequential.. The non-HO 302's are batch fire.

e3sean · October 29th, 2011, 08:15 PM

when #1 is at TDC the latches that hold the distrubitor cap should be horizontal left and right and number 1 will be left of rear. and the dizzy will be pointing at #1 and the thin prong in the magnetic pick up.the tfi should be at nearly a 45* angle to the right as well. that is the starting point. fireing order for 302HO/351 is 13726548

October 28th, 2011, 01:10 PM	#2
ryanw I Post Entirely Way Too Much 1991 Ford Mustang GT Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 6,063 iTrader: 0 reviews	How I did mine was. I lined my balancer up with zero on the timing pointer and droped in the distributor pointing at number one cylinder. Now if it doesn't run right then your 180 degrees off. To make sure your not 180 off. Pull the spark plug on number 1. Turn your crank until you feel air being pushed out of the spark plug hole. Rotate the crank a little more on till you are on zero. Then drop distributor in pointing at number one cylinder. Then start her up and set the timing. __________________ DART 331ci stroker, AFR 185 heads, Trick Flow R intake, Accufab 70mm tb, 75mm pro m Maf, 30lb injectors, jba headers, 2 1/2" x pipe flowmaster super 10 mufflers, 255 fuel pump, 3:27 gears

October 28th, 2011, 01:12 PM	#3
ryanw I Post Entirely Way Too Much 1991 Ford Mustang GT Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 6,063 iTrader: 0 reviews	This method will not work if your balancer has spun. __________________ DART 331ci stroker, AFR 185 heads, Trick Flow R intake, Accufab 70mm tb, 75mm pro m Maf, 30lb injectors, jba headers, 2 1/2" x pipe flowmaster super 10 mufflers, 255 fuel pump, 3:27 gears

October 28th, 2011, 01:31 PM	#5
ryanw I Post Entirely Way Too Much 1991 Ford Mustang GT Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 6,063 iTrader: 0 reviews	That's all news to me' I don't know any thing about that. Sorry I couldn't help __________________ DART 331ci stroker, AFR 185 heads, Trick Flow R intake, Accufab 70mm tb, 75mm pro m Maf, 30lb injectors, jba headers, 2 1/2" x pipe flowmaster super 10 mufflers, 255 fuel pump, 3:27 gears

October 28th, 2011, 01:45 PM	#6
Mustang Boy Hardcore Enthusiast 1994 Mustang GT 14.582@92.58MPH Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: tampa florida Posts: 1,729 iTrader: 1 reviews	This is all news to me also. When I installed my MSD distributor I just marked on my stock lower distributor cap where the rotor was facing, I then took the lower cap off and mounted it to my new MSD distributor. I took my stock distributor out and stabbed my new MSD in and lined the mark on the lower cap with the rotor, tightened the hold down bolt and swapped on the MSD upper and lower cap. Car started up on the first try with no problems at all. __________________ 315's Crew Black and White Crew Crew Member #2

October 28th, 2011, 10:35 PM	#8
JBIGBOOTSY MM Fanatic 1990 LX hatch Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hobart Indiana Posts: 4,391 iTrader: 0 reviews	5.0's fire 4 injectors at a time, all passenger side, and all drivers side. It is not sequential. __________________ Bolt-on Abraham Lincoln Log motor. With extra wiring.

October 28th, 2011, 12:58 PM	#1
dirty_d Regular Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 58 iTrader: 0 reviews	Timing PIP signal on MSD distributor When re-installing my distributor I oriented it so that when the rotor is pointing at the #1 terminal the short tooth on the magnetic wheel is lined up with the hall effect sensor. Is this the correct orientation? The timing is fine otherwise, but I don't really have any way to know of the injectors are opening at the right time.

October 28th, 2011, 01:26 PM	#4
dirty_d Regular Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 58 iTrader: 0 reviews	I have the spark timing correct, no problem there. I just don't know if the injector timing is correct. The ECU detects #1 base timing BTDC by a shorter pulse out of the PIP pin on the distributor so it can calculate when to open the injectors on the intake strokes of the correct cylinders. You can install the distributor in a bunch of different ways and still get the correct spark timing, but have the injectors open on the compression stroke etc. It will still run too. If the rotor is pointing to cylinder #1 at TDC does that guarantee the correct PIP timing?

October 28th, 2011, 02:41 PM	#7
dirty_d Regular Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 58 iTrader: 0 reviews	Yea the thing is if it is wrong you probably won't even be able to tell. The engine would just make less horsepower than it potentially could and get worse MPG because the fuel wouldn't be properly atomized. The fuel would pool up because the air in the runner isn't moving, then that pool would need to get sucked into the cylinder when the intake valve opens. From what I've read the rising edge of the PIP pulses are what tell the ECU when each piston is at 10deg BTDC(or whatever your base timing is) on the compression stroke. The #1 cylinder has a shorter pulse than the rest so it can be identified. The teeth on that rotor block the magnetic field from getting to the sensor, so i think I might have it wrong, I need the beginning of the empty space before the short tooth to line up with the sensor when the spark rotor lines up with plug #1.

October 29th, 2011, 02:24 AM	#9
fogged306 MM Fanatic 89 GT Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 4,875 iTrader: 2 reviews	HO's are sequential.. The non-HO 302's are batch fire.

October 29th, 2011, 08:15 PM	#10
e3sean I Post Entirely Way Too Much 1988 lx 9.68@142 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: goldsboro NC Posts: 5,609 iTrader: 0 reviews	when #1 is at TDC the latches that hold the distrubitor cap should be horizontal left and right and number 1 will be left of rear. and the dizzy will be pointing at #1 and the thin prong in the magnetic pick up.the tfi should be at nearly a 45* angle to the right as well. that is the starting point. fireing order for 302HO/351 is 13726548 __________________

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