Acceptable build for 93 octane?

RDY4WAR · January 10th, 2012, 08:54 AM

I'm in the designing stages of the 408 stroker that will be going in my dad's '86 fox. This will be a street/strip car so I want to it run on pump gas. A few specs about the build I have in mind...

Redline RPM: 6200 (shifting 5800-6000)
Bore: 4.030"
Stroke: 4.000"
Head Volume: 64cc
Rod Length: 6.200"
Deck Clearance: .003"
Head Gasket: .060"
Piston Dome: +6.00cc (flat top, two valve reliefs)

Static Compression: 11.04:1

Cam: Lunati 61013
Lift: .600/.600
Adv. Duration: 292/300
intake valve closes: 49* ABDC
Lobe Separation: 112

Dynamic Cranking Pressure: 205psi
Dynamic Compression Ratio: 9.77:1

The goal from this build would be 500hp/520tq at the motor with a Victor Jr. intake and Holley 750 carb. A couple things I'm concerned about is the piston/valve clearance with that cam and how streetable that setup would be.

Trans will be a built C4 with 3500 stall and rear is a built 8.8 with 4.10 gear.

Is that too much dynamic compression for 93 octane?

fogged306 · January 10th, 2012, 09:35 AM

If it's an aluminum headed engine, no. What heads are you using?

Where are you getting that deck figure? You shouldn't be in the hole .043, if you are, something is wrong.. If you have valve reliefs in a flat top, then you're going to have -5cc. And also, why are you planning on such a low shift point with a single plane intake? Depends on the heads, but I would play with the shift points at the track and see what it likes. It's probably going to want to be shifted higher than that.

Assuming 0 deck, I'm coming up with a CR of just above 11:1.. Which is still fine for pump gas if you have aluminum heads, but at that point I'm not sure the cam you listed will cut it or not.

RDY4WAR · January 10th, 2012, 10:01 AM

Heads will be aluminum Trickflow TW 190 track heat.

We are thinking of the same thing but figuring it different. I'm saying +5cc as that much dished.

I got my damn numbers mixed up with my other 302 build I was looking at. Disregard. I will update with the correct info. I'm too damn tired.

EDIT: Half the stroke (2.00") + piston compression height (1.300") + rod length (6.200") = 9.500"

9.503 - 9.500 = .003" deck clearance

I figured up my deck clearance way wrong. My bad. This has me reconsidering my head choice now as I might want to go with a bigger chamber.

RDY4WAR · January 10th, 2012, 10:21 AM

Changed up the OP with what I originally meant to post.

Redline RPM: 6200 (shifting 5800-6000)
Bore: 4.030"
Stroke: 4.000"
Head Volume: 64cc
Rod Length: 6.200"
Deck Clearance: .003"
Head Gasket: .060"
Piston Dome: +6.00cc (flat top, two valve reliefs)

Static Compression: 11.04:1

Cam: Lunati 61013
Lift: .600/.600
Adv. Duration: 292/300
intake valve closes: 49* ABDC
Lobe Separation: 112

Dynamic Cranking Pressure: 205psi
Dynamic Compression Ratio: 9.77:1

MustangMatt96GT · January 10th, 2012, 10:26 AM

Heads are too small to make that power... 190 is even small for a 302 combo

RDY4WAR · January 10th, 2012, 10:47 AM

My second option was Edelbrock Victor Jr. aluminum heads (210cc) but didn't really like the smaller 60cc combustion chamber.

RDY4WAR · January 10th, 2012, 11:10 AM

Also, how good is the SCAT Series 9000 crankshaft? I'm not planning on turning crazy rpm and don't plan on more than 600whp.

69fastback · January 10th, 2012, 11:42 AM

The Scat 9000 will be ok as long as you're not spraying it.

I think you're on the verge of 93. The chambers on those heads better be clean an efficient, and the cam, and ignition timing had better be dialed in. I hope the gas in your area is better than ours too. Of course we only get 91, but you're going to need some good gas.

69fastback · January 10th, 2012, 11:43 AM

First you said 500 at the motor, then you said 600rwhp?????

RDY4WAR · January 10th, 2012, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by 69fastback

First you said 500 at the motor, then you said 600rwhp?????

The plan is 500hp at the motor for now, keeping it NA. I am considering spraying a 150-175 shot down the road but am not certain if I want to mess with nitrous or keep it NA. I was asking about the crank cause I want to be sure it can handle the power if I do decide to go that route later.

StangBanger302 · January 10th, 2012, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by MustangMatt96GT

Heads are too small to make that power... 190 is even small for a 302 combo

Maybe small if you're turning 9,000rpms...lol. On a 302 anyway. For the 408 I agree, he should step up to the TFS205s or even a nice 225cc Highport.

69fastback · January 10th, 2012, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR

The plan is 500hp at the motor for now, keeping it NA. I am considering spraying a 150-175 shot down the road but am not certain if I want to mess with nitrous or keep it NA. I was asking about the crank cause I want to be sure it can handle the power if I do decide to go that route later.

Well, if it makes 500 on the motor, and you spray 150-175, you're still under 600 at the tires, but if you have the nitrous tune up right, it'll probably survive, BUT it's a risk. A cast crank will flex and nitrous is so violent on the hit, that if the crank flexes too much, it'll eat a bearing, then weld it to the crank, then rods start breaking.....

RDY4WAR · January 10th, 2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by 69fastback

Well, if it makes 500 on the motor, and you spray 150-175, you're still under 600 at the tires, but if you have the nitrous tune up right, it'll probably survive, BUT it's a risk. A cast crank will flex and nitrous is so violent on the hit, that if the crank flexes too much, it'll eat a bearing, then weld it to the crank, then rods start breaking.....

I understand. I know it would still be below 600whp, just wanted to have clearance room. I'll just fork out for the forged crank then to be safe.

January 10th, 2012, 08:54 AM	#1
RDY4WAR I Post Entirely Way Too Much 07 Turbo Focus 12.93 @ 105mph Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Glen Burnie, MD Posts: 6,006 iTrader: 0 reviews	Acceptable build for 93 octane? I'm in the designing stages of the 408 stroker that will be going in my dad's '86 fox. This will be a street/strip car so I want to it run on pump gas. A few specs about the build I have in mind... Redline RPM: 6200 (shifting 5800-6000) Bore: 4.030" Stroke: 4.000" Head Volume: 64cc Rod Length: 6.200" Deck Clearance: .003" Head Gasket: .060" Piston Dome: +6.00cc (flat top, two valve reliefs) Static Compression: 11.04:1 Cam: Lunati 61013 Lift: .600/.600 Adv. Duration: 292/300 intake valve closes: 49* ABDC Lobe Separation: 112 Dynamic Cranking Pressure: 205psi Dynamic Compression Ratio: 9.77:1 The goal from this build would be 500hp/520tq at the motor with a Victor Jr. intake and Holley 750 carb. A couple things I'm concerned about is the piston/valve clearance with that cam and how streetable that setup would be. Trans will be a built C4 with 3500 stall and rear is a built 8.8 with 4.10 gear. Is that too much dynamic compression for 93 octane? __________________ 2007 Focus - 230/215, cams/head/manifold swap done, new #s soon ...going E85! 1985 Bronco - 351W & 4WD 1986 Mustang LX - 351W build in the works! David Michael Smith, 07/25/1956 - 12/08/2011 ...R.I.P dad! I miss you dearly! Last edited by RDY4WAR; January 10th, 2012 at 10:20 AM.

January 10th, 2012, 10:01 AM	#3
RDY4WAR I Post Entirely Way Too Much 07 Turbo Focus 12.93 @ 105mph Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Glen Burnie, MD Posts: 6,006 iTrader: 0 reviews	Heads will be aluminum Trickflow TW 190 track heat. We are thinking of the same thing but figuring it different. I'm saying +5cc as that much dished. I got my damn numbers mixed up with my other 302 build I was looking at. Disregard. I will update with the correct info. I'm too damn tired. EDIT: Half the stroke (2.00") + piston compression height (1.300") + rod length (6.200") = 9.500" 9.503 - 9.500 = .003" deck clearance I figured up my deck clearance way wrong. My bad. This has me reconsidering my head choice now as I might want to go with a bigger chamber. __________________ 2007 Focus - 230/215, cams/head/manifold swap done, new #s soon ...going E85! 1985 Bronco - 351W & 4WD 1986 Mustang LX - 351W build in the works! David Michael Smith, 07/25/1956 - 12/08/2011 ...R.I.P dad! I miss you dearly!

January 10th, 2012, 10:21 AM	#4
RDY4WAR I Post Entirely Way Too Much 07 Turbo Focus 12.93 @ 105mph Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Glen Burnie, MD Posts: 6,006 iTrader: 0 reviews	Changed up the OP with what I originally meant to post. Redline RPM: 6200 (shifting 5800-6000) Bore: 4.030" Stroke: 4.000" Head Volume: 64cc Rod Length: 6.200" Deck Clearance: .003" Head Gasket: .060" Piston Dome: +6.00cc (flat top, two valve reliefs) Static Compression: 11.04:1 Cam: Lunati 61013 Lift: .600/.600 Adv. Duration: 292/300 intake valve closes: 49* ABDC Lobe Separation: 112 Dynamic Cranking Pressure: 205psi Dynamic Compression Ratio: 9.77:1 __________________ 2007 Focus - 230/215, cams/head/manifold swap done, new #s soon ...going E85! 1985 Bronco - 351W & 4WD 1986 Mustang LX - 351W build in the works! David Michael Smith, 07/25/1956 - 12/08/2011 ...R.I.P dad! I miss you dearly!

January 10th, 2012, 10:26 AM	#5
MustangMatt96GT Proud American 1996 Mustang GT Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lakewood, CO Posts: 10,689 iTrader: 3 reviews	Heads are too small to make that power... 190 is even small for a 302 combo __________________ RIP Travis Billings Special Thanks to: Andrews Racing Transmissions Baseline Suspensions 25.3 SFI Chassis Build Never Lift Racecars

January 10th, 2012, 10:47 AM	#6
RDY4WAR I Post Entirely Way Too Much 07 Turbo Focus 12.93 @ 105mph Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Glen Burnie, MD Posts: 6,006 iTrader: 0 reviews	My second option was Edelbrock Victor Jr. aluminum heads (210cc) but didn't really like the smaller 60cc combustion chamber. __________________ 2007 Focus - 230/215, cams/head/manifold swap done, new #s soon ...going E85! 1985 Bronco - 351W & 4WD 1986 Mustang LX - 351W build in the works! David Michael Smith, 07/25/1956 - 12/08/2011 ...R.I.P dad! I miss you dearly!

January 10th, 2012, 09:35 AM	#2
fogged306 MM Fanatic 89 GT Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 4,875 iTrader: 2 reviews	If it's an aluminum headed engine, no. What heads are you using? Where are you getting that deck figure? You shouldn't be in the hole .043, if you are, something is wrong.. If you have valve reliefs in a flat top, then you're going to have -5cc. And also, why are you planning on such a low shift point with a single plane intake? Depends on the heads, but I would play with the shift points at the track and see what it likes. It's probably going to want to be shifted higher than that. Assuming 0 deck, I'm coming up with a CR of just above 11:1.. Which is still fine for pump gas if you have aluminum heads, but at that point I'm not sure the cam you listed will cut it or not.

January 10th, 2012, 11:10 AM	#7
RDY4WAR I Post Entirely Way Too Much 07 Turbo Focus 12.93 @ 105mph Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Glen Burnie, MD Posts: 6,006 iTrader: 0 reviews	Also, how good is the SCAT Series 9000 crankshaft? I'm not planning on turning crazy rpm and don't plan on more than 600whp. __________________ 2007 Focus - 230/215, cams/head/manifold swap done, new #s soon ...going E85! 1985 Bronco - 351W & 4WD 1986 Mustang LX - 351W build in the works! David Michael Smith, 07/25/1956 - 12/08/2011 ...R.I.P dad! I miss you dearly!

January 10th, 2012, 11:42 AM	#8
69fastback Premium Member 1969 Mustang Mach 1 6.824@101.61 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oklahoma jackass, get to driving Posts: 5,565 iTrader: 0 reviews	The Scat 9000 will be ok as long as you're not spraying it. I think you're on the verge of 93. The chambers on those heads better be clean an efficient, and the cam, and ignition timing had better be dialed in. I hope the gas in your area is better than ours too. Of course we only get 91, but you're going to need some good gas. __________________ ./___ _ ____ ___ \. ( ]]] _ _ O _ _ [[[ ) \_ o _ _____ _ o _/ \|___\| ......... \|___\| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyYU3...e_gdata_player

January 10th, 2012, 11:43 AM	#9
69fastback Premium Member 1969 Mustang Mach 1 6.824@101.61 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oklahoma jackass, get to driving Posts: 5,565 iTrader: 0 reviews	First you said 500 at the motor, then you said 600rwhp????? __________________ ./___ _ ____ ___ \. ( ]]] _ _ O _ _ [[[ ) \_ o _ _____ _ o _/ \|___\| ......... \|___\| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyYU3...e_gdata_player

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