[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by shudahadav8 Don't give up on EFI people. I know I'm new here but here's my opinion. I'm not new to Mustangs, started racing Mustangs in the Baltimore area in the mid 90's, I've now got over 10 yers experience racing Mustangs, both carb'd and injected. A properly tuned EFI car will out perform a carb'd car on the track and the street. I switched my '91 GT to a carb back in '98, I didn't have a lot of experience with injection at the time, in '01 my dyno guy convinced me to switch back to injection witha simple statement " I guaruntee you atleast 30 more hp across the board or I'll pay for the injection set-up", I took that bet. We went with the SDS set-up and low and behold, from 3500 all the way to 6500 I picked up 30+ hp, I also picked up 43 hp at the peak of 5700, the car was more controllable, more streetable and there was a definite difference going down the track, for the first time in years I was driving my car to the track an out for more street nights. yes the initial cost was a little pricey, but my car went fomr getting like 8 mpg on the street to about 19mpg. As far as cam choices with S/D, convert to a MAF and run what cam you want to run, or you can run one of the Comp Cams Extrem Energy cams like the xe270hr just for reference, there are two xe270hr cams, you would wan tthe one with 114 degree lobe sep angle. Comp also has a cam help number at 1800-999-0853

Bingo! Just look at what the renegade guys are doing with EFI, restrictive heads and .500 lift camshafts. EFI is where its at.

[ryans88gt]

I agree, EFI is great if you have the money and I never commented on one being better than the other. EFI is way better for forced induction and EFI is more dynamic for sure and you might have better drivability, but a well tuned carb can make the same or more power in many applications, as long as it is tuned properly (tuning is required for EFI too). EFI is not magic.

My original point remains that the reason for people using carbs is that not everyone wants to (or can) drop that kinda money on a car and the added MPG never makes up the price unless it is a daily driver that you are going to drive for 10 years without changing anything. How much money are you going to spend on a stand alone EFI system including the high pressure fuel system, the MAF, the sensors, the wiring, the computer, the injectors, the fuel rails, the intakes, throttle bodies, etc... Most people are afraid to do the math. You can spend $300-600 on a well built carb or you'll need to add a zero at the end for the EFI system.

I totally agree that it doesn't make sense to covert a mostly stock car to carb, that would be dumb. But for engine work that requires a completely different fuel system, a carb is way cheaper and easier. i would even contend that carbs are more reliable. How many posts do you see on here...

My car doesn't idle right
My car dies
My car wont start
My car is running rich/ lean / like shit...
9 times out of 10 it is a faulty sensor or computer problem.

That is something to think about down the road when components start to wear out. This is only my opinion and I gave clear reasoning for this point of view even though it will fall on deaf ears. I'm glad people are pushing the EFI performance envelope, that should help drive the prices down and maybe someday EFI will be price friendly option. If I could put a standalone EFI system on my car for ~$1000 I would consider it.

[shudahadav8]

Originally Posted by ryans88gt I agree, EFI is great if you have the money and I never commented on one being better than the other. EFI is way better for forced induction and EFI is more dynamic for sure and you might have better drivability, but a well tuned carb can make the same or more power in many applications, as long as it is tuned properly (tuning is required for EFI too). EFI is not magic. My original point remains that the reason for people using carbs is that not everyone wants to (or can) drop that kinda money on a car and the added MPG never makes up the price unless it is a daily driver that you are going to drive for 10 years without changing anything. How much money are you going to spend on a stand alone EFI system including the high pressure fuel system, the MAF, the sensors, the wiring, the computer, the injectors, the fuel rails, the intakes, throttle bodies, etc... Most people are afraid to do the math. You can spend $300-600 on a well built carb or you'll need to add a zero at the end for the EFI system. I totally agree that it doesn't make sense to covert a mostly stock car to carb, that would be dumb. But for engine work that requires a completely different fuel system, a carb is way cheaper and easier. i would even contend that carbs are more reliable. How many posts do you see on here... My car doesn't idle right My car dies My car wont start My car is running rich/ lean / like shit... 9 times out of 10 it is a faulty sensor or computer problem. That is something to think about down the road when components start to wear out. This is only my opinion and I gave clear reasoning for this point of view even though it will fall on deaf ears. I'm glad people are pushing the EFI performance envelope, that should help drive the prices down and maybe someday EFI will be price friendly option. If I could put a standalone EFI system on my car for ~$1000 I would consider it.

Your car is already injected so you don't have to spend that much money. Use one of the cams that will work with S/D and call it a day. I understand your reasoning, but the money you spend now doing it right will be money you save later. Trust me, I've been down this road. i was arguing the point with others that were all for swaping to a carb, it's not worth the money. The money you are about to spend on a well built carb will cover you mass air conversion and you can run the cam you want after that. I'm trying to save you money in the long run, not be an ass and try to get you to spend more money on your car for stuff you don't need.

[fogged306]

He is running a carbed clevor motor.

Don't ask me why I am jumping in the middle of this.... Im neutral, dont shoot

[1slo5.0]

I just spent $1200 on a 1150 ultra HP dominator and $850 on a CHI intake. Not to mention the $1000+ I have in my fuel system and then who knows how much money in misc. items like throttle bracket, etc. My engine guy told me I was wasting my money and I could have a top notch EFI system and make more power for the same price as I would have into carburetion. Like a fool I said "you're nuts". Now I know I'm a fool and at the end of the season I will be switching to EFI.

[ryans88gt]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but please let me know how much you end up spending on an EFI system that gets you into the 9 second zone. I'll bet it is more than double the $3000 you have spent on your carb system.

Also, I'm not sure how you would spend $1000+ on pumps and accessories, but you will spend more for EFI. You need all the same stuff, but it also has to be built for higher pressure. So if you spent $1000 for 7-10 PSI plan on spending $2000 for 35-50 PSI.

The most expensive intake I could find from CHI was $590, you got ripped off if you spent $850...even if you had it port matched...

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by ryans88gt I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but please let me know how much you end up spending on an EFI system that gets you into the 9 second zone. I'll bet it is more than double the $3000 you have spent on your carb system. Also, I'm not sure how you would spend $1000+ on pumps and accessories, but you will spend more for EFI. You need all the same stuff, but it also has to be built for higher pressure. So if you spent $1000 for 7-10 PSI plan on spending $2000 for 35-50 PSI. The most expensive intake I could find from CHI was $590, you got ripped off if you spent $850...even if you had it port matched...

For about the same price I could have had an EFI system. I run a Magnafuel Pro Star 500 pump. Now add that to the price of all of the braided line, fittings, regulator, etc. It doesn't take long to stick $1000 into a fuel system. The Magnafuel EFI pump is less than $200 more than the pump I have. As far as the CHI intake before you talk so foolish and say I've been ripped off you should know what you are talking about. Of course you couldn't find the intake I have because its not available in the states yet. The one you found was the Commander. The one I have is the Commander 4.0. Its new. Since I had to get it directly from Austrailia I had to also pay shipping to get it here.

Commander:


Commander 4.0:

[shudahadav8]

Is your currently injected? That's the first question. We'll start there. i went 9.80's running an SDS set-up, if your already injected, the wiring is already there, so all you would need is a pigggy back kit, it completely replaces your computer, but is compatible with your stock wiring. You bigggest concern is going to be what intake, t/b and fuel system your going to run. If you already injected I'd bet you could do it for under 2500 including the fuel system. Post up what you currently have and I'll help you put together a price/shopping list with contact info.

[ryans88gt]

Originally Posted by Darrell Originally Posted by ryans88gt I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but please let me know how much you end up spending on an EFI system that gets you into the 9 second zone. I'll bet it is more than double the $3000 you have spent on your carb system. Also, I'm not sure how you would spend $1000+ on pumps and accessories, but you will spend more for EFI. You need all the same stuff, but it also has to be built for higher pressure. So if you spent $1000 for 7-10 PSI plan on spending $2000 for 35-50 PSI. The most expensive intake I could find from CHI was $590, you got ripped off if you spent $850...even if you had it port matched... For about the same price I could have had an EFI system. I run a Magnafuel Pro Star 500 pump. Now add that to the price of all of the braided line, fittings, regulator, etc. It doesn't take long to stick $1000 into a fuel system. The Magnafuel EFI pump is less than $200 more than the pump I have. As far as the CHI intake before you talk so foolish and say I've been ripped off you should know what you are talking about. Of course you couldn't find the intake I have because its not available in the states yet. The one you found was the Commander. The one I have is the Commander 4.0. Its new. Since I had to get it directly from Austrailia I had to also pay shipping to get it here. Commander: Commander 4.0:

All of CHI's parts come from Australia and the list prices include shipping to the US. I can see paying a premium for a new intake though.
What kind of intake are you going to run with an EFI setup to give you 800 hp NA ??? What's the price on that? $850 would be a steal for an EFI intake that can support that kind of power, whereas you could pay as little as $300 for an intake to support that power with a carb, you chose to spend more to try something new.

When thinking about your EFI fuel system, you have $1000 already in the system, swapping out the pump for a $200 more expensive pump gives you $1200. Now add an expensive regulator and fuel logs, possibly more expensive fuel line (depending on if what you have is compatible) and you are getting close to double what you originally paid.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by ryans88gt All of CHI's parts come from Australia and the list prices include shipping to the US. I can see paying a premium for a new intake though. What kind of intake are you going to run with an EFI setup to give you 800 hp NA ??? What's the price on that? $850 would be a steal for an EFI intake that can support that kind of power, whereas you could pay as little as $300 for an intake to support that power with a carb, you chose to spend more to try something new. When thinking about your EFI fuel system, you have $1000 already in the system, swapping out the pump for a $200 more expensive pump gives you $1200. Now add an expensive regulator and fuel logs, possibly more expensive fuel line (depending on if what you have is compatible) and you are getting close to double what you originally paid.

I am well aware all of CHI's parts come from Austrailia seeing how the company is based in Austrailia. There are US distributors though. What I was saying is John set me up with this intake before any of the US distributors recieved them. As far as I know nobody in the US has them yet. No the prices do not include shipping, unless they changed their pricing lately.

I don't make 800 horsepower and didn't ever say I did so I'm not sure where you got that from. Either way you can get a complete Accel DFI system for about $2500 with everything you need including fuel pump and computer. Aeromotive makes a top notch belt driven fuel pump that is about $100 less than what I paid for my Magnafuel. I'm sure if you open up the latest issue of Muscle Mustangs magazine you can add the cost of an EFI system up and come up with several thousand dollars more than a carb set up but I don't buy from magazines, I buy shit that works. And for the record, a $300 carb intake won't support anywhere near 800 horsepower. The last intake I ran was a heavily ported Super Victor by M2 Race Systems and it was maxed out on my engine. You need not explain to me how to make horsepower, I have a pretty good handle on that.

I understand that I already purchased all of the carb fuel system and it will be cost me more to convert to EFI. I was comparing EFI to carb from the start, not after a swap to one or the other was already made. On my car I'd need a different pump and regulator. Everything else is the same.

Like shudahadav8 said, if you already have factory EFI it will fully support a good amount of horsepower with a piggy back system like a PMS or equivelant......yes, even 800 horsepower. I know several guys running 9s and 10s with stock type EFI systems. Some of them are only using the old school Ford RPM Extender. My buddy Mark made 555hp at the wheels with an RPM Extender and a stock short block 302. It can be done, you just need to do research and not believe everything you see and read in magazines.

[shudahadav8]

Well said Darrel. If your starting with a car that already has EFI you costs for a better efi set-up will be about the same as converting to a decent carb set-up. We are more than willing to help walk you through this if you decide to stay injected. If your dead set on changing to a carb we'll still help you with that. We are just trying to save you money in the long run.

[usmcsawgunner]

yea im with the whole carb thing too....i hate the computer thing and for me its just easier to swap jets and stuff...my dads old school and thats prolly where i get it from but ehh..just my 2 cents....

[NottyBoy93]

I WAS always pro carb, but here is what I like about F/I. You will not have too many issues that re-tuning won't solve, if the motor is well built then you can pile on the boost, spray or not and you are never too far from where a lap-top won't put you back in line. 15 years ago you would have never convinced me that a stock bodied EFI Fox Body would be running 6.69 at Bradenton.....Guess Brad Brand has no idea what hell he is doing huh? Personally you go carbed, you will do what the rest of us had done eventually and go back to F/I.

[ryans88gt]

Originally Posted by shudahadav8 Well said Darrel. If your starting with a car that already has EFI you costs for a better efi set-up will be about the same as converting to a decent carb set-up. We are more than willing to help walk you through this if you decide to stay injected. If your dead set on changing to a carb we'll still help you with that. We are just trying to save you money in the long run.

I don't have EFI anything on my car, I sold the whole speed density system along with the engine for $750 about 7 years ago to some guy that wanted to put it in his hill climbing bronco. It saved me about 100 lbs from my car (the harness alone weighed 30 lbs, not including the sensors).

I also have no desire to switch over to EFI, I like my carb setup. I run 11s at the track, drive the car on the interstate, and get 22 mpg combined driving. Plus I never have to replace sensors or use expensive diagnostic tools.

To Darrell, you said you car had a 750 hp race motor, read above, I was just rounding up for your benefit. You also said all you need is a pump and regulator to switch over, so I was just curious as to what kind of fuel log you are running that has ports for a carb and injectors. As for intakes, I bought a massaged Parker intake awhile back for $350 from a friend of Terry's. I could tell you the flow numbers, but then you'd just say that flow numbers don't equal hp. I never used the intake (it was just too tall, and I did't want a 6 inch cowl on my car) so I can't say that it was capable of 800hp, but I will say that the motor it was originally made for produced 700hp with the same intake. You might not be able to buy one new for $350, but you can find intakes capable of those numbers for very reasonable prices....like you said, you don't buy your parts out of MM&FF, neither do I.
I hope your quest for EFI power, goes well. Let me know what your final bill is and what parts you used. If it works out well for you, I might consider it in the future.