[Speedstang302]

hey guys..im brand new to EFI mustangs, and basically EFI all together..now i just bought a new mustang 3 weeks ago and had an b303 cam laying around, but an opertunity came around i jumped on..brand new f303 cam for $50..now i know most of the rules of EFI, like with that big of a cam i need bigger injectors or it will starve for fuel..then i was reading that i may need a new MAF sensor calibrated for 24lb injectors, and then also the PCM needs to be calibrated for 24lb injectors..how do i do this?? and do i rlly need a MAF sensor for 24lb injectors?? and i also bought a 75mm throttle body and EGR spacer, does the MAF sensor have to be roughly 75mm?? im rlly confused..i need it running and passing MASS inspection in just 3 weeks..and only a little time to work on it..and this is holding getting it all back together..all responses are greatly appreciated..thanks

[ujslost]

First of all you do not need 24 lb injectors for an b or F cam
If you do put in 24lbers then you will need a new MAF or recalibration
The pcm does not need a new calibration, but a tuner is nice

With a larger TB you might want a larger MAF though

[superman5.0]

rule of thumb with MAF and TB is that your MAF always has to be bigger then the TB otherwise its like running a funnel backwards.

[Speedstang302]

Originally Posted by ujslost First of all you do not need 24 lb injectors for an b or F cam If you do put in 24lbers then you will need a new MAF or recalibration The pcm does not need a new calibration, but a tuner is nice With a larger TB you might want a larger MAF though

Well im not just running an f cam..i have:

1.6 rr
ported upper and lower
heavily ported 302 E7 heads
double valve spring
bigger valves
full exhuast
cold air
full ignition
under drive pullys..

it wont starve for fuel w/ all that stuff with stock #19 injectors??

and im thinking 76mm C&L Mass Air
75mm Holley Throttle Body & EGR Spacer
24lb injectors..

do i need that stuff w/ my setup..i do plan on doing much more..or am i still fine w/ 19lb injectors??

[Speedstang302]

Originally Posted by ujslost First of all you do not need 24 lb injectors for an b or F cam If you do put in 24lbers then you will need a new MAF or recalibration The pcm does not need a new calibration, but a tuner is nice With a larger TB you might want a larger MAF though

what kinda tuner would you recommend or do you mean get it tuned?..also would 24lb injectors help? would make better #'s..i can get a new MAF easy that not my worry..im worried that once the cars running again, w/ stock injectors it will be sluggish and have no idle and top end..

[ujslost]

Oh well now that you mention all that other stuff.
You might be ok with 19s but 24s would be good idea.
I like the tweecer for a tuner.

[Stangzilla]

Originally Posted by superman5.0 rule of thumb with MAF and TB is that your MAF always has to be bigger then the TB otherwise its like running a funnel backwards.

The mass air can also be the same size as you throtte body but not smaller..

[Speedstang302]

Originally Posted by ujslost Oh well now that you mention all that other stuff. You might be ok with 19s but 24s would be good idea. I like the tweecer for a tuner.

my bad..plus its probably the stupidest idea to run a f303 cam w/ a bone stock motor and no other mods..i've used mustang and other american muscle cars before..but this is my 1st fuel injected..with carb you can play w/ them to get better flow and throttle response..with this damn fuel injection to do 1 thing i need to change out 5..nothing like the throttle response and power you can get from these little...5litre 302's w/ F.I. though..

[Stangzilla]

Originally Posted by Speedstang302 Originally Posted by ujslost First of all you do not need 24 lb injectors for an b or F cam If you do put in 24lbers then you will need a new MAF or recalibration The pcm does not need a new calibration, but a tuner is nice With a larger TB you might want a larger MAF though what kinda tuner would you recommend or do you mean get it tuned?..also would 24lb injectors help? would make better #'s..i can get a new MAF easy that not my worry..im worried that once the cars running again, w/ stock injectors it will be sluggish and have no idle and top end..

If you plan on just doin you basic Mustang bolt-ons just leave it alone. if you plan on going heads,cam, intake take it to a tuner and have a chip burned after you have all that stuff on. You really dont need a separate programmable management system unless you are gonna totally do the whole motor like stroke it or something. You decide. But if and when the day comes and you want a PMS dont forget to look at the Anderson Ford Motorsport PMS. I think its the best one on the market for Mustangs, I love mine... It costs about a grand plus another 350-450 for a good wideband o2 set-up. Just so you know you will need to get a wideband o2 for whatever system you decide to go with. Some people will say that it is not needed but the ones that really know what they are talkin about will tell you that it is absolutely needed..

[mikebert]

19# are good to 300 flywheel horsepower. 24# would be nice and leave you room to grow, but I doubt they are necessary just yet.

If you get the 24# injectors, you need to get a MAF calibrated to 24#. Nothing more, nothing less. All the MAF does is send a voltage signal to the computer, so as long as the MAF compensates for the injectors nothing else needs to. Stick to Pro-M or PMAS (same people) for your MAF - C&L is not reliable. I know I've talked to someone here who is running C&L and he will be the first to admit that although it works well for him, he is very much in the minority of overall C&L results. If you're in a rush to get it does and pass inspection, I would stick with the stock injectors for the time.

As far as the cams, people around here tend to cane you for using the "alphabet" cams, but I'm under the assumption that horsepower is horsepower and I've been in some alphabet cammed cars that damn near threw me in the trunk from a standstill. I believe the B and F cams peak high. One guy I know went from an E to an F and regretted it - I like my E because it has more midrange than the other and as far as I can tell, still gets the job done.

Just to throw out some more EFI wisdoms. . .

Yeah, a MAF housing that is at least as big as your TB is a good idea. The stock MAF is 55mm and the stock TB is 58mm so it's like the inverted funnel someone already mentioned. Of course, if you upgrade TB, it makes sense to upgrade the EGR spacer. And it makes sense to upgrade or at least port the upper intake to match your EGR spacer. You can see where this is going, eh? Just don't put a bigger TB on and expect more horsepower. People fear EFI and think it's some mystical bullshit that steals your horsepowers while you're not looking or something. I've seen one guy spend at least $2,000 on a Fox body 5.0, which was his first EFI, not get the performance he wanted and sell the car. It's the same principles as carb, we just have more parts and more wires.

[Speedstang302]

Originally Posted by Stangzilla Originally Posted by Speedstang302 Originally Posted by ujslost First of all you do not need 24 lb injectors for an b or F cam If you do put in 24lbers then you will need a new MAF or recalibration The pcm does not need a new calibration, but a tuner is nice With a larger TB you might want a larger MAF though what kinda tuner would you recommend or do you mean get it tuned?..also would 24lb injectors help? would make better #'s..i can get a new MAF easy that not my worry..im worried that once the cars running again, w/ stock injectors it will be sluggish and have no idle and top end.. If you plan on just doin you basic Mustang bolt-ons just leave it alone. if you plan on going heads,cam, intake take it to a tuner and have a chip burned after you have all that stuff on. You really dont need a separate programmable management system unless you are gonna totally do the whole motor like stroke it or something. You decide. But if and when the day comes and you want a PMS dont forget to look at the Anderson Ford Motorsport PMS. I think its the best one on the market for Mustangs, I love mine... It costs about a grand plus another 350-450 for a good wideband o2 set-up. Just so you know you will need to get a wideband o2 for whatever system you decide to go with. Some people will say that it is not needed but the ones that really know what they are talkin about will tell you that it is absolutely needed..

i do actually have an 302 laying around that i planned on boring and stroking out to a 347ci..but thats a ways away..i have heavily ported and polished 302 heads, f303 cam..is that not enough stuff for 24lb injectors..
i also am soon getting trick flow or edelbrock aluminum heads for it..alot of basic bolt on and some internal stuff..but hope to be around 325-350hp..plenty fine for me..i dont need to blow the doors off this thing..it only has 56k on it and i'd like to let it live its entire life..just be fast enough on the street..thats it..i'll get another if i wanna push 5-600hp..and beat the shit out of it on the track and street..

now when you say wideband o2, you're talking bout o2 sensors?..now what are wideband sensors??

[Speedstang302]

Originally Posted by mikebert 19# are good to 300 flywheel horsepower. 24# would be nice and leave you room to grow, but I doubt they are necessary just yet. If you get the 24# injectors, you need to get a MAF calibrated to 24#. Nothing more, nothing less. All the MAF does is send a voltage signal to the computer, so as long as the MAF compensates for the injectors nothing else needs to. Stick to Pro-M or PMAS (same people) for your MAF - C&L is not reliable. I know I've talked to someone here who is running C&L and he will be the first to admit that although it works well for him, he is very much in the minority of overall C&L results. If you're in a rush to get it does and pass inspection, I would stick with the stock injectors for the time. As far as the cams, people around here tend to cane you for using the "alphabet" cams, but I'm under the assumption that horsepower is horsepower and I've been in some alphabet cammed cars that damn near threw me in the trunk from a standstill. I believe the B and F cams peak high. One guy I know went from an E to an F and regretted it - I like my E because it has more midrange than the other and as far as I can tell, still gets the job done. Just to throw out some more EFI wisdoms. . . Yeah, a MAF housing that is at least as big as your TB is a good idea. The stock MAF is 55mm and the stock TB is 58mm so it's like the inverted funnel someone already mentioned. Of course, if you upgrade TB, it makes sense to upgrade the EGR spacer. And it makes sense to upgrade or at least port the upper intake to match your EGR spacer. You can see where this is going, eh? Just don't put a bigger TB on and expect more horsepower. People fear EFI and think it's some mystical bullshit that steals your horsepowers while you're not looking or something. I've seen one guy spend at least $2,000 on a Fox body 5.0, which was his first EFI, not get the performance he wanted and sell the car. It's the same principles as carb, we just have more parts and more wires.

i had a b303 in my 84 ranger, and liked it...but at 17yrs old and still in school..i'll take what i can get.. found a f303 cam for $50 brand new..i would have loved to get a comp or crane or even lunati cam, or even a custom cam, but $ ..so i settled for the f cam..now i have ported upper and lower...heavily ported and built up 302 heads..and alot of other bolt ons..so im seeing 300hp coming pretty soon..so 24lb maybe for the best..and as far as i've learned a 75 or 70mm throttle body and same size EGR spacer and then along with 76mm MAF sensor..

so please tell me best bang for least amount of the buck on

Throttle body
EGR Spacer
MAF Sensor
Injectors

and what size's would be best..and not kill me more on gas..and yes i know what i signed up for when i started modding a mustang..

[mikebert]

A wideband sensor is just a sensor that monitors your air/fuel ratio. It's normally always used (by smart people) in forced induction setups. It doesn't have anything to do with the O2 sensors.

As long as you're naturally aspirated I would not spend my money on one. I think Stangzilla was talking about that in the context of a stand alone engine management system which would allow you to tweak all kinda of things in the engine. Things that would break your engine if you ran it too hard, too long, too lean or whatever. If you're just looking for 325 horse at the crank, you won't need to get into that level of complication. Good old heads, cam and intake will do the job just fine.

[mikebert]

For starters, what size is the inside diameter on your upper intake?

[Stangzilla]

Originally Posted by mikebert A wideband sensor is just a sensor that monitors your air/fuel ratio. It's normally always used (by smart people) in forced induction setups. It doesn't have anything to do with the O2 sensors. As long as you're naturally aspirated I would not spend my money on one. I think Stangzilla was talking about that in the context of a stand alone engine management system which would allow you to tweak all kinda of things in the engine. Things that would break your engine if you ran it too hard, too long, too lean or whatever. If you're just looking for 325 horse at the crank, you won't need to get into that level of complication. Good old heads, cam and intake will do the job just fine.

Exactly......except the part where you said that widebands have nothing to do with o2 sensors. Well they do cuz thats what they are. I think what you meant was it has nothing to do with your existing o2 sensors. That is true. The wideband has nothing to do with the stock ecm. It is a totally seperate sensor that is soley used to monitor the air fuel ratio real time so you always can tune your car for the optimum A/F ratio if you have a PMS. Also the Anderson Ford PMS has the ability to either piggyback or standalone or both. I have mine tuned piggyback until I get beyond the 6250rpm stock rev limiter then I have it set for the standalone to kick in for the rest of the rpm range.. But like you said unless you want to make 400+ hp with the right combo dont bother to spend the money on one..

[86GT50]

Change your fuel pump from the stock to the 255.... you'll starve for fuel if you don't... Even if you have an adjustable fuel regulater on the rails, if you have the stock pump... you wont be able to pull the required fuel needed with your combo...

[Speedstang302]

Originally Posted by mikebert For starters, what size is the inside diameter on your upper intake?

now i wouldnt know that off-hand..my uncle would becuase he did it in his shop..i gave him like $500 to port and polish the heads pretty good, and do the same to the intake..i didnt ask questions or get #'s on what he did..i could find out..but i did it like 6 months ago and he probably doesnt even remember by now..

[Speedstang302]

Originally Posted by 86GT50 Change your fuel pump from the stock to the 255.... you'll starve for fuel if you don't... Even if you have an adjustable fuel regulater on the rails, if you have the stock pump... you wont be able to pull the required fuel needed with your combo...

i was deffinatly thinking bout upgrading to a holley or BBK 255lph fuel pump..for sure..and a fuel pressure regulator was at the back of my mind..do a need one, or the real question is would it help..

[mikebert]

Find out what the inside diameter is before you start buying TB and all that.

You shouldn't need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator with your application. One member told me in another thread that he blew out his fuel pressure regulator when he switched to a 255lph pump, so maybe a new aftermarket one is a good idea when you get that pump.

[ujslost]

go to autozone or harbor freight and buy a $20 digital caliper and measure the inside of the intake. You will find you can use this tool for alot more applications so its worth the $20 if ya can get one.