351 clevor
Forums at Modded Mustangs
Home Register FAQ Members List Calendar Timeslips Blogs Garage Gallery Auto Loans Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Auto Escrow


Go Back   Forums at Modded Mustangs > Mustang Forums > 5.0 Mustangs

ModdedMustangs.com is the premier Ford Mustang Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack (1) Thread Tools
Old October 21st, 2007, 11:12 PM   1 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1
Regular
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 51
5litercobra is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

351 clevor


anyone have info on putin cleveland heads on a windsor thus the clevor name any advantages or disadvantages to this setup ive got a set of aluminum heads for my combo now but am open to the idea of the clevor cause from what ive read so far the cleveland heads flows much more cfm. Thanks for any info
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old October 22nd, 2007, 12:17 AM   #2
MM Fanatic
 
ryans88gt's Avatar
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 4,781
ryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the rough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Yeah, I have one in my 88 GT.

I did it to be different and I can tell you from experience, it will not be any cheaper than going aluminum heads. And if you want to get the most out of 351C heads you'll need to see the high side of 7000 rpms.

So...I wouldn't do it if you think it will save money. If you want something different, it is an interesting way to go.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2517646_19_full_332.jpg (85.4 KB, 161 views)
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 12:19 AM   #3
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
1slo5.0's Avatar
 
1990 Mustang LX
9.36@143 mph
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Posts: 11,367
1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all
iTrader: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 1slo5.0
Default

Cleveland heads can flow some air if you do some work to them. It won't be cheap though. CHI makes some pretty kick ass aluminum Cleveland style heads. Something to look into.
__________________
My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


***1988 Mustang GT - Stock....almost
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 12:24 AM   #4
MM Fanatic
 
ryans88gt's Avatar
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 4,781
ryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the rough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Originally Posted by Darrell
Cleveland heads can flow some air if you do some work to them. It won't be cheap though. CHI makes some pretty kick ass aluminum Cleveland style heads. Something to look into.
+1 on the CHI heads, John Kasse has made some awesome motors with those.

BTW my heads as cast (with flash and everything) flowed an average of 280 cfm on the intake side (before valve job) and 190 exhaust. They are 1970 4V closed chamber heads.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 09:55 AM   #5
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
2004 Redfire GT
14.23@100.83
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Massachusetss
Posts: 6,000
Speedstang302 will become famous soon enoughSpeedstang302 will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 1 reviews
Default

Re: 351 clevor


Originally Posted by 5litercobra
anyone have info on putin cleveland heads on a windsor thus the clevor name any advantages or disadvantages to this setup ive got a set of aluminum heads for my combo now but am open to the idea of the clevor cause from what ive read so far the cleveland heads flows much more cfm. Thanks for any info
cleveland heads flow more than any aluminum heads?
__________________
2004 40th Anni Redfire GT- Cold air, Magnapack Catback, Mach 1 Chin Spoiler, Mach 1 Grille Delete, Cobra Mirrors, 18x9/10 Chrome Saleens
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 09:58 AM   #6
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
1slo5.0's Avatar
 
1990 Mustang LX
9.36@143 mph
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Posts: 11,367
1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all
iTrader: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 1slo5.0
Default

Re: 351 clevor


Originally Posted by Speedstang302
Originally Posted by 5litercobra
anyone have info on putin cleveland heads on a windsor thus the clevor name any advantages or disadvantages to this setup ive got a set of aluminum heads for my combo now but am open to the idea of the clevor cause from what ive read so far the cleveland heads flows much more cfm. Thanks for any info
cleveland heads flow more than any aluminum heads?
No. They flow more than some heads but not many. With some work they can flow some good numbers.
__________________
My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


***1988 Mustang GT - Stock....almost
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 10:05 AM   #7
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
2004 Redfire GT
14.23@100.83
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Massachusetss
Posts: 6,000
Speedstang302 will become famous soon enoughSpeedstang302 will become famous soon enough
iTrader: 1 reviews
Default

Re: 351 clevor


Originally Posted by Darrell
Originally Posted by Speedstang302
Originally Posted by 5litercobra
anyone have info on putin cleveland heads on a windsor thus the clevor name any advantages or disadvantages to this setup ive got a set of aluminum heads for my combo now but am open to the idea of the clevor cause from what ive read so far the cleveland heads flows much more cfm. Thanks for any info
cleveland heads flow more than any aluminum heads?
No. They flow more than some heads but not many. With some work they can flow some good numbers.
yeah with work..but i meant stock!!!
__________________
2004 40th Anni Redfire GT- Cold air, Magnapack Catback, Mach 1 Chin Spoiler, Mach 1 Grille Delete, Cobra Mirrors, 18x9/10 Chrome Saleens
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 10:07 AM   #8
MM Fanatic
 
ryans88gt's Avatar
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 4,781
ryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the rough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

A standard short side port typically nets 340 cfm on the intake side and 220 cfm on the exhuast side. All out porting has produced some heads with 380+ CFM intake and 250+ CFM exhuast. So yeah, they will outflow many if not most aluminum heads.

BUT flow isn't everything. These are low velocity ports, so if you want to use that CFM you need to be up above 6000 rpm.

The real ticket with these heads is epoxy filling part of the ports (especially the exhaust and the lower part of the intake port). Then you can raise the exhaust runner with some plates. If you have your porting and filling done by someone that knows what they are doing you can have a pretty bad ass set of iron heads, but the cost will not be much cheaper than a set of AFR 225s.

Also, cleveland heads are big, bigger than windsor heads, and heavy, about 75 lbs each. So factor that into the equation as well.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 10:22 AM   #9
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
1slo5.0's Avatar
 
1990 Mustang LX
9.36@143 mph
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Posts: 11,367
1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all
iTrader: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 1slo5.0
Default

Originally Posted by ryans88gt
A standard short side port typically nets 340 cfm on the intake side and 220 cfm on the exhuast side. All out porting has produced some heads with 380+ CFM intake and 250+ CFM exhuast. So yeah, they will outflow many if not most aluminum heads.

BUT flow isn't everything. These are low velocity ports, so if you want to use that CFM you need to be up above 6000 rpm.

The real ticket with these heads is epoxy filling part of the ports (especially the exhaust and the lower part of the intake port). Then you can raise the exhaust runner with some plates. If you have your porting and filling done by someone that knows what they are doing you can have a pretty bad ass set of iron heads, but the cost will not be much cheaper than a set of AFR 225s.

Also, cleveland heads are big, bigger than windsor heads, and heavy, about 75 lbs each. So factor that into the equation as well.
I don't know who told you a stock Cleveland head goes 340/220 but there is now way they do with out major work like port plates and welding as you mentioned. The CHI heads don't even flow that much out of the box.
__________________
My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


***1988 Mustang GT - Stock....almost
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 02:20 PM   #10
MM Fanatic
 
ryans88gt's Avatar
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 4,781
ryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the rough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Originally Posted by Darrell
The CHI heads don't even flow that much out of the box.
The small port 225 cc CHI heads flow over 340 cfm out of the box without porting....see attached picture from CHI's website

Originally Posted by Darrell
I don't know who told you a stock Cleveland head goes 340/220 but there is now way they do with out major work like port plates and welding as you mentioned.
The person that told me was a flow bench...he is pretty hard to argue with and never listens to what I say.

Stock 4V cleveland heads do flow 340 cfm with short side work as I mentioned. Not much work, just a cleanup of the bowl area and smoothing out the radius and a decent valve job. I have the flow sheets for a set of heads with about 10 hrs in them, just not in electronic form, so you'll have to take my word for it.

If you don't believe me, there are some old articles with flow data...recorded at 28" Hg

Mustang & Fords - Dec. 1999 280 cfm on as cast heads

Super Ford - Sept. 1991 360 cfm on ported heads
Attached Images
File Type: gif 3v_225cc_graph_small_156.gif (17.2 KB, 119 views)
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 02:22 PM   #11
MM Fanatic
 
ryans88gt's Avatar
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 4,781
ryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the rough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Also CHI has built several motors with 700+ NA HP with their 225 cc heads.
__________________
88 GT CHI headed 351w 10.8 @ 125 - still figuring it out.
03 Cobra 2.3 whipple 10.7 @ 129 - sold it
04 Mach 1 12.7 @ 109 mostly stock - sold it
89 LX procharged 302 515 hp 497 ftlbs 10.7 @130 mph - sold it

  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 03:23 PM   #12
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
1slo5.0's Avatar
 
1990 Mustang LX
9.36@143 mph
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Posts: 11,367
1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all
iTrader: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 1slo5.0
Default

I've never seen a Cleveland head flow that much with minor work. I'm curious as to what bench they used.

I know what CHI products are capable of.
__________________
My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


***1988 Mustang GT - Stock....almost
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 03:34 PM   #13
MM Fanatic
 
ryans88gt's Avatar
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 4,781
ryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the rough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Originally Posted by Darrell
I've never seen a Cleveland head flow that much with minor work.
How many cleveland heads have you seen?? The port size is 275+ cc and is about 1 full inch shorter than a windsor head port (due to the intake valve being very close to the intake). It would be embarrassing not to flow those kind of numbers with a port that big. I'm sure with modern port design, it would be easy to flow 380+ CFM from a similarly size port.

As I said, flow isn't the problem with cleveland heads, velocity is the problem.



  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 05:20 PM   #14
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
1slo5.0's Avatar
 
1990 Mustang LX
9.36@143 mph
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Posts: 11,367
1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all
iTrader: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 1slo5.0
Default

Originally Posted by ryans88gt
Originally Posted by Darrell
I've never seen a Cleveland head flow that much with minor work.
How many cleveland heads have you seen?? The port size is 275+ cc and is about 1 full inch shorter than a windsor head port (due to the intake valve being very close to the intake). It would be embarrassing not to flow those kind of numbers with a port that big. I'm sure with modern port design, it would be easy to flow 380+ CFM from a similarly size port.

As I said, flow isn't the problem with cleveland heads, velocity is the problem.



I've seen a few........ We used to use the Cleveland stuff years ago when aftermarket Windsor heads were scarce. There was a company that made an intake specifically for this swap but I can't remember the name off hand. I think they were located in Michigan. The intake ports aren't anywhere near 275cc. The common 351C 4V C4V D1ZE-GA has a 244cc intake port, 137cc exhaust port, 2.19 intake/1.71 exhaust and as cast flows around 284/154 @ .600.

BH Performance ported a set of 4V heads a while back that went 330/200 @ .700 lift fully ported.
__________________
My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


***1988 Mustang GT - Stock....almost
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 09:21 PM   #15
Regular
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 51
5litercobra is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

351 clevor


im looking to do this to a 408 stroker for strip use my reason is cause most of the aftermarket race heads lke blue thunder and the yates heads seam to be modeled after these i have access to a set of 4v heads at the machine shop i work at part time so i am going to do all the neccasary filling porting and drilling myself and that 280 cfm as cast still outflows my alumys by at least 10/15 cfm and with some bowl work possibly more. thanks for the info very enlightening
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 09:51 PM   #16
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
1slo5.0's Avatar
 
1990 Mustang LX
9.36@143 mph
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Posts: 11,367
1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all1slo5.0 is a name known to all
iTrader: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 1slo5.0
Default

Re: 351 clevor


Originally Posted by 5litercobra
im looking to do this to a 408 stroker for strip use my reason is cause most of the aftermarket race heads lke blue thunder and the yates heads seam to be modeled after these i have access to a set of 4v heads at the machine shop i work at part time so i am going to do all the neccasary filling porting and drilling myself and that 280 cfm as cast still outflows my alumys by at least 10/15 cfm and with some bowl work possibly more. thanks for the info very enlightening
Yes the Yates, Blue Thunder, Neal, etc are some what modeled around the Cleveland head. Like Ryan said, you will need to turn some rpm to make those big 4V ports work.
__________________
My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


***1988 Mustang GT - Stock....almost
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 22nd, 2007, 10:07 PM   #17
Regular
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 51
5litercobra is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

as mentioned this is a 408 solid roller block drag profile cam. Hopefully the extra 67 inces will help to compensate for the velocity issue and at the flow of 280 cfm they only support 575hp w/o a power adder im hoping to max out
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 23rd, 2007, 01:00 AM   #18
MM Fanatic
 
ryans88gt's Avatar
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 4,781
ryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the rough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Originally Posted by Darrell

I've seen a few........ We used to use the Cleveland stuff years ago when aftermarket Windsor heads were scarce. There was a company that made an intake specifically for this swap but I can't remember the name off hand. I think they were located in Michigan. The intake ports aren't anywhere near 275cc. The common 351C 4V C4V D1ZE-GA has a 244cc intake port, 137cc exhaust port, 2.19 intake/1.71 exhaust and as cast flows around 284/154 @ .600.

BH Performance ported a set of 4V heads a while back that went 330/200 @ .700 lift fully ported.
B&A performance made the intakes, that is what I have on my engine. They went out of business years ago, Bush performance (Arkansas) bought the casting equipment and manufactured a few more for a number of years. They went out of business too, no more B&A intakes. I see them on Ebay every once in awhile for like $800. CHI is the only company I know of that currently makes an intake. Rumors have it that edelbrock is going to make a windsor intake for their new aluminum cleveland heads. My ports measured 275 cc as cast, there is a lot of variation from year to year and closed chamber and open chamber ports are not exactly the same. Also the 302B heads have a slightly bigger port near the valve to accommodate the 2.25 intake valve.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 23rd, 2007, 01:05 AM   #19
MM Fanatic
 
ryans88gt's Avatar
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 4,781
ryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the roughryans88gt is a jewel in the rough
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Originally Posted by 5litercobra
as mentioned this is a 408 solid roller block drag profile cam. Hopefully the extra 67 inces will help to compensate for the velocity issue and at the flow of 280 cfm they only support 575hp w/o a power adder im hoping to max out
Probe makes some pistons that will work with a 408 windsor stroker with a cleveland valve relief and they make them in dished sizes as well...

I thought about doing this as well, but it is so much easier to do a standard 408 stroker...
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old October 23rd, 2007, 01:11 AM   #20
Regular
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 51
5litercobra is on a distinguished road
iTrader: 0 reviews
Default

Thanks for the info ive been looking i guess the info on bush is out dated parker makes an intake for the 2v clevor looks nice but obviously not a match looks like i have some searching too do ive also seen the probe pistons and will probably go with those cause i do plan on spraying it looking for low 10's any way thanks again.
  Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Forums at Modded Mustangs forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/5-0-mustangs/39274-351-clevor.html
Posted By For Type Date
What is 351 CLEVOR INTAKE? This thread Refback January 18th, 2013 09:02 PM

Threads Similar to: 351 clevor
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
351 clevor 5litercobra 5.0 Mustangs 1 October 22nd, 2007 09:29 AM
which headders for a 306 clevor in a fox 89 gt notch 5.0 Mustangs 2 October 10th, 2007 12:46 PM
Clevor motor ETs ryans88gt 5.0 Mustangs 14 June 7th, 2007 09:39 AM
clevor thinkin ih8chevy 5.0 Mustangs 5 May 19th, 2007 10:47 PM
375 stroker clevor engine rkloehn 5.0 Mustangs 2 May 19th, 2007 10:24 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:23 AM.
Modded Mustangs is ©2005-2008, All Rights Reserved, And is Not Affiliated with Ford Motor Company.
Forum is powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Ent. Ltd. & SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.

powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Ent. Ltd.