[Newtgadget]

I'm looking to have a 351 n/a motor built over the winter for a future 1/4 mile Stang project. My motor guy has a few clients that have done 351's, stroked, etc. and they are pushing 800+ hp fairly easily.
However, there is no real consensus on Windsor vs. Cleveland heads.
Questions:
Which are better....Cleveland or Windsor?
What mod's would you do to the motor?

We have a realistic budget for the motor of $$6-8k.

Thanks in advance!
Newt

[Speedstang302]

Originally Posted by Newtgadget I'm looking to have a 351 n/a motor built over the winter for a future 1/4 mile Stang project. My motor guy has a few clients that have done 351's, stroked, etc. and they are pushing 800+ hp fairly easily. However, there is no real consensus on Windsor vs. Cleveland heads. Questions: Which are better....Cleveland or Windsor? What mod's would you do to the motor? We have a realistic budget for the motor of $$6-8k. Thanks in advance! Newt

i wish i had an $8k budget for a future project, and the same budget for the current one...

i'd say do a 351w stroked to 393 or 408..

heads, cam, intake carb, fuel, ignition etc.. for that 351w

[White Thunder]

after market heads...

[Newtgadget]

So are you telling me that the Windsor is better than the Cleveland?

I talked to 8 or so of the people that have used this performance shop for their 351 builds.....all went 408, (4) are Cleveland fans (4) are Windsor fans.

What is the true difference in the head design between the two and how does the aftermarket address their shortcomings?

[Speedstang302]

Originally Posted by Newtgadget So are you telling me that the Windsor is better than the Cleveland? I talked to 8 or so of the people that have used this performance shop for their 351 builds.....all went 408, (4) are Cleveland fans (4) are Windsor fans. What is the true difference in the head design between the two and how does the aftermarket address their shortcomings?

dont tell all the cast iron heads i said this, but there fat...and thats why aluminum wins...also they run cooler too..

[Newtgadget]

Originally Posted by Newtgadget So are you telling me that the Windsor is better than the Cleveland? I talked to 8 or so of the people that have used this performance shop for their 351 builds.....all went 408, (4) are Cleveland fans (4) are Windsor fans. What is the true difference in the head design between the two and how does the aftermarket address their shortcomings?

Heres some info from the internet pasted below that explains.....

The reason each engine was given its name had to do with where it was manufactured; either Cleveland, Ohio, or Windsor, Ontario, Canada. Although both engines have the same bore and stroke dimension and feature the same cylinder head bolt pattern which allows their cylinder heads to interchange with each other, they do use a different camshaft and have a different firing order. While it may not be readily apparent that the Cleveland features larger cylinder heads, it's the Windsor that uses larger 17mm spark plugs versus the Cleveland's smaller 14mm spark plugs. According to noted engine expert, Ray Bohacz, "the 351W was considered a workhorse engine that was designed for low-speed torque, while in contrast the 351C owes its lineage to the Boss 302."

[White Thunder]

302's a windsor......

[zers]

the boss 302 is a boss!

[Speedstang302]

and you're both

i say just do the windsor more common...i think that the cleveland heads being a little bigger should make no difference..just fine a new block or one from about 68-72..those are the best years, strongest ones..

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by Newtgadget I'm looking to have a 351 n/a motor built over the winter for a future 1/4 mile Stang project. My motor guy has a few clients that have done 351's, stroked, etc. and they are pushing 800+ hp fairly easily. However, there is no real consensus on Windsor vs. Cleveland heads. Questions: Which are better....Cleveland or Windsor? What mod's would you do to the motor? We have a realistic budget for the motor of $$6-8k. Thanks in advance! Newt

Windsor blocks are stronger. Windsors use a 9.5 deck height, Clevelands use a 9.2. Alot of dedicated small block race heads are similar to a Cleveland head in design. 800hp out of a Windsor or Cleveland is no where near "fairly easy" no matter what the cubic inch is. $6000 to $8000 might get you in the 600hp range.

[baine21225]

is he using a new or used block?

[Newtgadget]

Originally Posted by Darrell Originally Posted by Newtgadget I'm looking to have a 351 n/a motor built over the winter for a future 1/4 mile Stang project. My motor guy has a few clients that have done 351's, stroked, etc. and they are pushing 800+ hp fairly easily. However, there is no real consensus on Windsor vs. Cleveland heads. Questions: Which are better....Cleveland or Windsor? What mod's would you do to the motor? We have a realistic budget for the motor of $$6-8k. Thanks in advance! Newt Windsor blocks are stronger. Windsors use a 9.5 deck height, Clevelands use a 9.2. Alot of dedicated small block race heads are similar to a Cleveland head in design. 800hp out of a Windsor or Cleveland is no where near "fairly easy" no matter what the cubic inch is. $6000 to $8000 might get you in the 600hp range.

I appreciate the feedback. Seems like you really know your stuff.
We are planning to spend approx. 17-20k on the entire build.
I am partnering with a mechanic friend who has been racing cars in various aspects for 20 plus years. He has had some 8 second cars but always with a power adder. This time, N/A

What type of dollar for the 8-900 hp mark?
Thanks,
Newt

[Newtgadget]

Originally Posted by baine21225 is he using a new or used block?

Still undecided.
My business will be sponsoring the build and a friend will be building along with me when I get time. Getting good advice from everyone....both here in the forum and around town.....trying to make wise decisions upfront so I know what I'm in for in the long run.

[baine21225]

if its sponsored then why go used.....get a dart!!!

[Newtgadget]

Originally Posted by baine21225 if its sponsored then why go used.....get a dart!!!

Even though it is being sponsored......by my business....it's still my money and I want to spend wisely. I agree Dart makes extremely nice stuff and may be the way we pursue.

Just looking at all options before I pull the trigger........

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by Newtgadget I appreciate the feedback. Seems like you really know your stuff. We are planning to spend approx. 17-20k on the entire build. I am partnering with a mechanic friend who has been racing cars in various aspects for 20 plus years. He has had some 8 second cars but always with a power adder. This time, N/A What type of dollar for the 8-900 hp mark? Thanks, Newt

800-900hp naturally aspirated? You will have $20,000+ in the motor alone. Look at NMRA Hot Street. Those guys have that much cash in their engines at those power levels. You will not be doing it with a factory block.

[Newtgadget]

Understood.
Trying to figure out whose telling the truth here in my town. The one guy I spoke to today showed time slips of 9.2 in 1/4 mile with 408 Dart built by the guy I was going to use to build mine. Said he makes 800 HP and he showed me the bill for the motor work...........$7600 bucks!

[C MY 4D]

double post............

[C MY 4D]

I may have the stuff to help you get started.......
Stock, filled 351 block bored to 357 c.i. 10.5:1
Wiseco Pro tru flat top forged pistons
Forged I beam rods
Stock 69 351 crank
Manley Pushrods
Comp Valve springs and Rockers
Comp Retro Fit lifters
Comp XR294RF-HR Cam
Edelbrock Victor Jr 70 CC heads
FMS red on black valve covers
Milodan 7 Qt Pan
Edelbrock Victor Jr intake

The motor was just freshened up less than 50 miles ago, fresh hone, new bearings, rings.... I'm parting the car out now because I acquired a 03 Cobra.

[Newtgadget]

Originally Posted by C MY 4D I may have the stuff to help you get started....... Stock, filled 351 block bored to 357 c.i. 10.5:1 Wiseco Pro tru flat top forged pistons Forged I beam rods Stock 69 351 crank Manley Pushrods Comp Valve springs and Rockers Comp Retro Fit lifters Comp XR294RF-HR Cam Edelbrock Victor Jr 70 CC heads FMS red on black valve covers Milodan 7 Qt Pan Edelbrock Victor Jr intake The motor was just freshened up less than 50 miles ago, fresh hone, new bearings, rings.... I'm parting the car out now because I acquired a 03 Cobra.

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