[Goblin]

Ive searched on here, and i cant seem to find any answers to suit my question. Im on the brink of making a decision with my stroked 302/351 dilema.. im trying to tie up some loose ended questions and concerns. This will be my first time building a stroker, so im trying to research as much as i can.. to take full advantage of the extra cubes. My newest concern.. is the Solid vs. Hydraulic roller subject. The engine will primarily see more street driving than anything else. But, its fair to say i will spend as much time as possible at the track, ripping passes off as time allows. I expect myself to atleast rip 100 passes off in one year... judging on how many passes ive already done with my Nitrous 5.0L combo in the past few months. Another aspect to keep in mind, is i actually dont mind a high revving, high hp combo. I understand that keeping the rpms down on the street is more practical.. but the real intentions for this car.. is to be fast at the track, not on the street. Even though it will see street duty, i dont need to haul ass on the street.

So, the car doesnt actually NEED to make gobs of torque or power at super low rpms.. im willing to sacrafice some power down low, to make alot of power up top.. where the engine will be.. through 99% of a track pass. So.. im curious what type of cam i should invest in? Which will live longer on the street, and also give me the performance on the track im looking for? Solid.. or Hydraulic? Im looking for an engine that can be spun safely and easily up to 7500rpm... or possibly even more. Thanks for the help.

[Darrell]

They make tight lash solid rollers. As long as the cam isn't too radical you can make the valve springs last. I ran a .700 lift solid roller for a few years and just changed the valve springs every year. It was street friendly. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to "always adjust your valves" especially with a tight lash roller. With 400+ inches you will have no issues with low end torque and shouldn't have to spin it over 6500.

[Goblin]

Originally Posted by Darrell They make tight lash solid rollers. As long as the cam isn't too radical you can make the valve springs last. I ran a .700 lift solid roller for a few years and just changed the valve springs every year. It was street friendly. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to "always adjust your valves" especially with a tight lash roller. With 400+ inches you will have no issues with low end torque and shouldn't have to spin it over 6500.

See, i was also slighty worried about adjusting valve lash all the time.. thanks for clearing that up. Thats one for solid. Any recommendations as to a cam manufacturer? I hear Cam Motion is good...

[ryans88gt]

Up to 7000 rpms --> hydraulic

7000-7500 rpms could go either way, need quality (i.e. not stock) hydraulic lifters

7500+ --> solid roller

As far as durability, that has more to do with how extreme the ramping rates more than anything. With a street solid roller your valve train can last for 30,000+ miles before needing a rebuild. Drag race only solid rollers have such extreme ramp rates that they wear out springs and other components quickly. The advantage of hydraulic is you never have to check valve lash, but you will give up high rpm power due to lifter pump. Solid rollers do not really have the same limitations for rpm but they do make more noise due to the valve lash and need to be checked once a year or so.

[ryans88gt]

crower, cammotion, comp are all good.

I am putting a crower 15459 solid in my 351 clevor this year.
INTAKE
Opens: 18.0 BTDC
Closes: 50.0 ABDC
EXHAUST
Opens: 60.0 BBDC
Closes: 12.0 ATDC
LOBE SEPERATION 110º
Duration at .050"
Intake: 248
Exhaust: 252
LOBE LIFT
Intake: 0.348
Exhaust: 0.341
~ .600 lift with 1.73 ratio rockers.

[Goblin]

Interesting. Both are good i presume... Atleast, thats what it seems like. It would be nice to set the lash, and leave it alone.. and it seems like thats also possible with a solid roller.. as long as its not crazy. I know a solid roller would make more noise.. not to worried or picky about that. Is it even safe to spin a hydraulic cam past 7500rpm? Just curious..

[ryans88gt]

Originally Posted by Goblin Is it even safe to spin a hydraulic cam past 7500rpm? Just curious..

Short answer is no

long answer is it depends. With a cam and lifters designed for high revving application, it can be, but eventually you will hit the pump-up wall and float the valves. And if you have tight PtoV clearance, floating the valves could result in an expensive rebuild. Also, most hyd lifters wouldn't let you rev that high anyway, because once you start floating valves you power takes a sharp nose dive.

[Darrell]

A solid cam (flat tappet or roller) will always make more power than a hydraulic roller from stability and ramp profiles alone, regardless of the rpm range. That is fact.

[Darrell]

Pretty much any hydraulic cam is dead after 6500 even with lightweight valve train components. You may not hear or feel the valve float but I'll guarantee its there. On a dyno you will see it.

[ryans88gt]

All i'll say is talk to rick anderson

The teams he supports win a lot of classes using their high rev hydraulics

I personally think solids are great for high rpm or radical cam profiles, but if you take the same street roller cam and run it with solid rollers or hydraulic rollers you will not notice a difference in power below the pump up limit of the lifters, which for modern day lifters is closer to 7500 than 6500.

Also I will bet my entire assets that the same motor will make more power with a hydraulic roller than a solid flat given the same specs simply due to area under the curve, you cannot ramp a solid flat very fast without eating the lobe.

[woody1]

Go run a good spring with a seat pressure of 150ish closed and use a stock style hyd roller lifter and tell me how long the lifter lasts. 140-150-160lb of seat pressure is perfect for a hyd roller profile to reign in valve train stability but will reak havoc on the lifter. A solid roller is great, we almost always can find 10-15hp in valve lash alone on a solid roller. Been using them on the street for 15+ years, love them and I will take the free 50hp gain from them anyday of the week. Guys have gotten complacent with the hyd rollers, oh you have to lash valves twice a year, boo hoo, go take up knitting.

[ryans88gt]

Originally Posted by woody1 Go run a good spring with a seat pressure of 150ish closed and use a stock style hyd roller lifter and tell me how long the lifter lasts. 140-150-160lb of seat pressure is perfect for a hyd roller profile to reign in valve train stability but will reak havoc on the lifter. A solid roller is great, we almost always can find 10-15hp in valve lash alone on a solid roller. Been using them on the street for 15+ years, love them and I will take the free 50hp gain from them anyday of the week. Guys have gotten complacent with the hyd rollers, oh you have to lash valves twice a year, boo hoo, go take up knitting.

Your funny, who would run a stock hyd lifter to 7500 rpms??

http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/media/spin2.jpg

Give him a call, they spin their N-113 cam to 8,000+ without power loss and have a ton of customer cars and race winners to prove it.

[ryans88gt]

by modern day lifters, I did not mean the ones ford started manufacturing in the 1980s...

[Goblin]

Originally Posted by woody1 Go run a good spring with a seat pressure of 150ish closed and use a stock style hyd roller lifter and tell me how long the lifter lasts. 140-150-160lb of seat pressure is perfect for a hyd roller profile to reign in valve train stability but will reak havoc on the lifter. A solid roller is great, we almost always can find 10-15hp in valve lash alone on a solid roller. Been using them on the street for 15+ years, love them and I will take the free 50hp gain from them anyday of the week. Guys have gotten complacent with the hyd rollers, oh you have to lash valves twice a year, boo hoo, go take up knitting.

HAHAHAHA. Thats funny. Im getting the feeling i should go solid roller. I know i'll be spinning higher than 6500... even 7000. Any other opinions, facts?

[Goblin]

Originally Posted by ryans88gt Your funny, who would run a stock hyd lifter to 7500 rpms?? http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/media/spin2.jpg Give him a call, they spin their N-113 cam to 8,000+ without power loss and have a ton of customer cars and race winners to prove it.

I have delt with Rick before, GREAT guy. He helped me over the phone.. when i was setting up my Nitrous system.. that i bought from him. Hes also the guy i originally bought my heads from.

[woody1]

Originally Posted by ryans88gt I personally think solids are great for high rpm or radical cam profiles, but if you take the same street roller cam and run it with solid rollers or hydraulic rollers you will not notice a difference in power below the pump up limit of the lifters, which for modern day lifters is closer to 7500 than 6500.

You are not implying that the lobes used for a conventional hyd roller cam are the same as solid roller lobes?

[baine21225]

my vote goes to solid, they can be very sreetable

[ryans88gt]

Originally Posted by woody1 You are not implying that the lobes used for a conventional hyd roller cam are the same as solid roller lobes?

Certainly solids can be more aggressive with ramp rates

but...

a lot of street solid rollers have similar ramp rates to hot hyd rollers

But...

I will admit that the high rpm hyd cams do have slower ramp rates

but...

given the same ramp rate, just being a solid doesn't make you better than being hyd until you get close to pump up rpms (maybe you get 5 hp in valve train stability/harmonics, but only if you tweek the lash on a dyno, otherwise you could be loosing 5 hp).

but...

Did I mention I am putting a crower 15459 street roller in my clevor??

[Goblin]

Solid. Well, i guess i need to figure out what specs would be optimal. Im still open to more info and opinions. Thanks for the help.

[Goblin]

Originally Posted by ryans88gt Certainly solids can be more aggressive with ramp rates but... a lot of street solid rollers have similar ramp rates to hot hyd rollers But... I will admit that the high rpm hyd cams do have slower ramp rates but... given the same ramp rate, just being a solid doesn't make you better than being hyd until you get close to pump up rpms (maybe you get 5 hp in valve train stability/harmonics, but only if you tweek the lash on a dyno, otherwise you could be loosing 5 hp). but... Did I mention I am putting a crower 15459 street roller in my clevor??

Yeah, lol I caught that. Im trying to decide which brand to go with, and specs. That crower sounds like it will support tons of good power.