[Goblin]

Im still going to build a windsor, but i just bought a 351C and curious to see what your guys opinion is as to what i should do with it. Im stang'less right now, but im looking at 90-93 GTs, or LX Hatchs of the same years. This is my first cleve.. i know a few things about them, and like them alot.. but im not sure if i should save this engine for a classic (67-68) or maybe go for a 4 banger fox.. and do a swap. Just need some cool ideas. Im even thinking about another Torino.

Not sure if this is the right section? It involves Fox's

[woody1]

you sure its a cleveland? Seen many a guys buy 351m's and 400's thinking they were clevelands. Then on top f it, you got a 50% chance of the block being any good after you sonic check it, they shift real bad and are only good to .030 over. I have run clevelands for the last 15 years, got more broken cleveland junk than you can shake a stick at, but they are the best small block ford made period, you just better know what your doing. Dont listen to ANYONE who has not built a clevleand because all they will say is the same nonsense that everyone else repeats that have not and run a cleveland hard.

[Goblin]

Yeah. Its a 1970 4V. Motor was originally in a 70 Torino GT (his brothers car), but the car was stolen, wrecked, and when they got it back, they salvaged what they could. The motor has been in and out of a few cars, and now i have it. It runs (so he says) and it looks in somewhat decent condition. He told me its never been rebuilt, and never driven hard (ofcourse, the knucklehead who stole it may have) But to his knowledge and history with the motor, its never been abused or beat on. Its just a long block, with a few other things. I wouldnt have been interested to say the least, if it was a 351M or 400M, even though i like the M's.

[built351w]

Originally Posted by woody1 you sure its a cleveland? ...... cleveland junk than you can shake a stick at, but they are the best small block ford made period.

clevelands are big blocks??? The reason ford made a big block with the same displacement as the small block Windsor was so they would have a stronger foundation to build upon, but the big advantage to a cleveland is the heads, from what I read....

[ryans88gt]

Originally Posted by built351w clevelands are big blocks??? The reason ford made a big block with the same displacement as the small block Windsor was so they would have a stronger foundation to build upon, but the big advantage to a cleveland is the heads, from what I read....

a 351c is not a big block, that is something that people who drive mopars and chevys say after they get beat up by a 351c

351c have the same bore spacing as any other ford small block, they just have kick ass heads.

[Goblin]

Yeah, there seems to be alot of confusion these days, and even over the years. 351C's, 351M's and 400M's are all SMALL blocks.

[Goblin]

Okay, i just stumbled across some information that strikes me as a little weird. The guy i bought this engine from said it came OUT of a 1970 Torino GT. Whats weird, is that the 70 351C 4V's were 2-bolt main motors, and mine is a 4-bolt. Now, he said the motor has NEVER been rebuilt, and never opened. So, it cant possibly be a 70 then. I need to thoroughly clean the motor to reveal some casting numbers.

[woody1]

doesnt matter if its a 2 or 4 bolt, neither is stronger than the other we ran 2 bolt to 9000rpm for years.

[Goblin]

Oh woody, im not worried about it being a 2 or 4 bolt, i'd just like to know what i bought. He said its a 70.. and it clearly isnt, so im just trying to figure out what the heck he sold me!

Something else thats funny, this motor has an aluminum intake, something else that didnt come on the "M" codes. Im confuzzzed man.

[jam77]

stay away from the 351m's they are good for boat anchors and that is about it

[Goblin]

Boat anchor huh? Lots of people have said, and still say that about the 400M. Funny though, Jon Kasse has done so well with those engines, and so have a "boat" full of other people.

I cant read the casting number very well. From what i can read, its D1ZEB 60- something. I really need to clean it with some degreaser and wire brush. Any idea what this could be??

[ryans88gt]

You can do plenty with the M, just as long as you don't mind searching wide and far for parts that cost a lot of money.

D1 would be 71.

[Goblin]

I know D1 is 1971, sorry i didnt say that. I know that "Z" is mustang. But what is the B for? I dont want to jump to conclusions here, but from what ive been reading, this could be a Boss 351. Its got the original aluminum intake, it DOES have solid lifters and its a 4 bolt main. The heads are closed chamber (i cant read the number on the heads very well) But there D4 something with 4 dots.. atleast it looks this way. Wheres woody??? I need a cleveland expert!!!

[ryans88gt]

Does it have flat machined pedestals with an adjustable valve train?

If so it is a Boss (or has been modified as such).

If it has factory style pedestal mount rockers with the lips on the pedestals, it is just a standard 351c 4v

Take a pic of the top of the heads with the valve cover off.

[Goblin]

I can take tons of pictures. I just cant upload jack unfortunately. This computer is about as old as i am (not literally, but its a pentium II) It doesnt except accessories for some reason, and the USB ports are damaged. Thats why i dont have any pictures of myself, or my vehicles on here. Im just to damn poor these days! Anyhow, the pedestals are flat. Whether or not its been modified this way, i dont truly know. But the previous owner said its never been tampered with, rebuilt, modified or even opened.. to his knowledge. Then again, he said it was a 70, and that was incorrect. It was his brothers engine, so its possible he could have misunderstood some of the info. If this thing is a real Boss, im going to shit.

[ryans88gt]

D1ZE-B is the casting number for Boss 351C heads, those bad boys are pretty damn rare.

Wanna sell them?

351 Cleveland Performance Engine Build Adjustable Rocker Stud Photo

The Importance Of The Cleveland Oiling System - Mustang & Fords Magazine

[Goblin]

I just read my previous posts, and i made a mistake with the casting numbers. The heads are D1ZEBs, not the block. I cant read the block very well, and i really cant see the heads all to well either, but i CAN make out the D1Z number.

Sell them?? HAHA No. Im not stupid, i now these heads are super hard to come by. Dont cry, but i only paid 200 bucks for this engine.

[ryans88gt]

Originally Posted by Goblin I just read my previous posts, and i made a mistake with the casting numbers. The heads are D1ZEBs, not the block. I cant read the block very well, and i really cant see the heads all to well either, but i CAN make out the D1Z number. Sell them?? HAHA No. Im not stupid, i now these heads are super hard to come by. Dont cry, but i only paid 200 bucks for this engine.

$200 is a good price for a 351C 4V, but honestly, more than I would pay without having the block sonic tested.

The heads, even if they aren't 351C boss heads are worth $200 though. If they are boss heads, they might be worth $500 as it sits. The intake is probably worth a few hundred dollars too. Pretty good deal, but nothing to cry over..lol

[Goblin]

Okay, so maybe its not a huge deal to get all worked up over, but im excited about it. Im still trying to figure out what im even going to do with it. I think putting it in a fox would be cool... but how much power can i really get out this thing compared to the windsor? I know clevelands cost a little more than windsors, but how much more money at a 600hp level?

[jam77]

the m's cranks are freaking heavy thats why they are used for truck engines back in the day. I had a freind throw a decent cam, intake, exaust on one of those pieces of crap and my v6 grand-am smoked it!!! Piece Of Sh.t bottom line give me a windsor or cleveland any day over one of those