Top end options...

Bigfatts · May 30th, 2008, 01:19 PM

So my LX needs a new top end. The guy I bought it from went from a 302 to a 331 and then it's like he ran out of money and put the HO top back on it. So I have ported E7s and the HO intake, factory TB with a C&L CAI. 19lb injectors and MAF. Oh, and a E cam that I'll keep for now.

So I'm on a budget and I want to do heads an intake, throttle body and injectors. I am looking at Patriot heads (unless I find a good deal on used TFS or AFR) and was thinking the new FRPP Cobra intake. My question is will the Cobra intake support the power I am going to end up making? The car dynoed 318RWHP last time the guy ran it. Keep in mind that's with 19lb injectors. How high are the Cobra intakes rated for? If I use the Cobra I would probably have it ported and polished as well. I am hoping to be close to 375RWHP when I get the heads, intake and injectors.

Also should I go with 24 or 30lb injectors?

ryans88gt · May 30th, 2008, 01:47 PM

that will be pushing it NA on a cobra intake, you'll most likely need to have it ported, I'd consider a TFS-R or systemax or RPM II intake. Skip the patriot heads and go straight for some used TFS, brodix, or AFRs.

Also, I'd be skeptical about the dyno results, it would be very hard to make those kind of numbers with E7 heads and a stock intake at the wheels. In stock form these cars normally put down 190 to the wheels, so you are talking about a 130 hp jump (at the wheels!) from 29 extra cubes and a port job? Are you sure he didn't say 218? Might make you think about if it is really a 331? Not trying to rain on your parade, just making a point that it is (I will not say impossible) fairly unlikely to make 318 hp with a stock top end, naturally aspirated. To give you a benchmark, one of the members on here (TMoss) has GT40P heads ported and a ported Explobra intake and puts down 270 hp and his combo is very well sorted out (yet still 50 hp short of what your guy claims).

Bigfatts · May 30th, 2008, 02:09 PM

I understand what you mean. I just got to thinking about it and pulled out the papers that came with the car. I have the dyno slip and it's 318 AT THE CRANK, not the wheels. That would put me roughly 270-ish at the wheels. Guess I should have looked at it closer before I bought the car... I just kinda took his word for it and only glanced at the sheet. Oh well, I do have the reciepts for the stroker stuff he bought so I'm not worried about that. Guess I have more to do than I thought.

OK, so considering the lack of horsepower I thought I had, what do you think these upgrades will net me roughly? I am hoping for a considerable gain as I have a rematch with a particular SRT-4 to look forward to.

I was also looking at the Trick Flow Street Heat intake, think that would do it?

ryans88gt · May 30th, 2008, 04:39 PM

good flowing heads and a matching intake...i.e. AFR 185s or trick flow CNC 185s and a systemax intake.

Those options should give you about 75-100 more ponies at the wheels.

JBIGBOOTSY · May 30th, 2008, 04:55 PM

19#ers cant support 318hp

Bigfatts · May 30th, 2008, 06:55 PM

Thanx guys. Should I go with 24 or 30lb injectors? I also looked at cam prices and think I might go ahead and do one while I'm at it. Thinking Lunati. Suggestions? What would be a decent step up from my E?

JBIGBOOTSY · May 30th, 2008, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bigfatts

Thanx guys. Should I go with 24 or 30lb injectors? I also looked at cam prices and think I might go ahead and do one while I'm at it. Thinking Lunati. Suggestions? What would be a decent step up from my E?

Asking what cam is like asking what desktop pc. Everyone will tell you that their answer to your question is the only right one.

vfast · May 30th, 2008, 07:28 PM

please the 165's would be a much better set up for this guy.....hell a nice set of gt-40's would be a good deal as well and 1/3 the cost....the cobra intake will work I would have it extrude honed and use a 65 or 70mm t/b...keep the cam but install some 1.6's or at least on the exhaust side

Originally Posted by ryans88gt

good flowing heads and a matching intake...i.e. AFR 185s or trick flow CNC 185s and a systemax intake.

Those options should give you about 75-100 more ponies at the wheels.

Squints · May 30th, 2008, 07:35 PM

this guy is in your area and selling some TF heads for 800 bucks

don't know if it's what you're looking for, but....

ryans88gt · May 30th, 2008, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by vfast

please the 165's would be a much better set up for this guy.....hell a nice set of gt-40's would be a good deal as well and 1/3 the cost....the cobra intake will work I would have it extrude honed and use a 65 or 70mm t/b...keep the cam but install some 1.6's or at least on the exhaust side

Do yourself a favor and look up some dyno numbers on AFR 185s vs. AFR 165s on a 331...GT-40s...Fail.

JBIGBOOTSY · May 30th, 2008, 09:31 PM

^ yea, the 165s will flow about 50 cfm more than p's. p's flow 18cfm more than stock.

JBIGBOOTSY · May 30th, 2008, 09:35 PM

sorry, p's flow about 30cfm more than stock^ don't listen to this guy, he dosen't know what he's talking about

JBIGBOOTSY · May 30th, 2008, 09:35 PM

^STFU noob!

Bigfatts · May 31st, 2008, 01:30 AM

Thanx for the contact Squints I'll give him a call when I get back in town. The flow numbers are also helpful guys. I am still a Ford newb and don't know what works best.

PS- So I should stick with my E cam?

Arctic Fox · May 31st, 2008, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bigfatts

So I should stick with my E cam?

Only if you are on tight budget. Most on this site prefer custom grind, but as you have already looked some Lunatis, im liking those Voodoo cams.

Bigfatts · May 31st, 2008, 11:26 AM

Thanx for the contact Squints I'll give him a call when I get back in town. The flow numbers are also helpful guys. I am still a Ford newb and don't know what works best.

PS- So I should stick with my E cam?

Bigfatts · May 31st, 2008, 11:31 AM

Thanx for the tips and numbers guys. Squints I'm going to call that guy when I get back to town.

Bigfatts · June 1st, 2008, 03:46 PM

Sorry about the repetative posts guys, I've been on my Blackberry and it said it wasn't posting them, that's why I said the same thing like 3 times.

as you have already looked some Lunatis, im liking those Voodoo cams.

Yea, I've heard nothing but good things about them, that's probably the way I'll go. So here's what I'm looking at so far:

Heads (used TFS, AFR, Brodix or if all else fails new Patriot)
30lb injectors and MAF
70 or 75mm TB
Trickflow Street Burner upper/lower intake (since it seems to be the common consesnus the Cobra won't handle what I want)
Lunati Voodoo cam (specs undetermined as of yet)

demonicus · June 1st, 2008, 10:13 PM

well here's a breakdown for ya...
19 inj wont support 318hp. so I'm guessing there's a different set of injectors used for that dyno pull.

patriot heads are now known to have some of their combustion chambers out as much as 4cc. Sooo you get what you pay for.

The GT40 intake is better then the stock one but is only the next line up on the better scale. Almost every other aftermarket intake is better then the gt40... but it's a nice unit for the money I guess.

If your going to go forced induction then get a box intake... tfsRbox or the BBKssiR
otherwise I suggest you take a look at www.trickflow.com and see their numbers for each kit they sell... street, twisted wedge, R series.

Edelbrock makes some nice stuff too. But I'm just not an edelbrock guy.
for a TB get yourself the 70mm... it'll be good for future and where your at.

JBIGBOOTSY · June 1st, 2008, 10:18 PM

^ HOW ARE YOU NOT AN EDLBROCK GUY? You dont like their logo design or somthing.

May 30th, 2008, 01:19 PM	#1
Bigfatts Regular Badass Mother 3000 Twice as fast as your ass! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lutz, Florida Posts: 234 iTrader: 1 reviews	Top end options... So my LX needs a new top end. The guy I bought it from went from a 302 to a 331 and then it's like he ran out of money and put the HO top back on it. So I have ported E7s and the HO intake, factory TB with a C&L CAI. 19lb injectors and MAF. Oh, and a E cam that I'll keep for now. So I'm on a budget and I want to do heads an intake, throttle body and injectors. I am looking at Patriot heads (unless I find a good deal on used TFS or AFR) and was thinking the new FRPP Cobra intake. My question is will the Cobra intake support the power I am going to end up making? The car dynoed 318RWHP last time the guy ran it. Keep in mind that's with 19lb injectors. How high are the Cobra intakes rated for? If I use the Cobra I would probably have it ported and polished as well. I am hoping to be close to 375RWHP when I get the heads, intake and injectors. Also should I go with 24 or 30lb injectors?

May 30th, 2008, 01:47 PM	#2
ryans88gt MM Fanatic Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 4,737 iTrader: 0 reviews	that will be pushing it NA on a cobra intake, you'll most likely need to have it ported, I'd consider a TFS-R or systemax or RPM II intake. Skip the patriot heads and go straight for some used TFS, brodix, or AFRs. Also, I'd be skeptical about the dyno results, it would be very hard to make those kind of numbers with E7 heads and a stock intake at the wheels. In stock form these cars normally put down 190 to the wheels, so you are talking about a 130 hp jump (at the wheels!) from 29 extra cubes and a port job? Are you sure he didn't say 218? Might make you think about if it is really a 331? Not trying to rain on your parade, just making a point that it is (I will not say impossible) fairly unlikely to make 318 hp with a stock top end, naturally aspirated. To give you a benchmark, one of the members on here (TMoss) has GT40P heads ported and a ported Explobra intake and puts down 270 hp and his combo is very well sorted out (yet still 50 hp short of what your guy claims). __________________ 88 GT CHI headed 351w 10.8 @ 125 - still figuring it out. 03 Cobra 2.3 whipple 10.7 @ 129 - sold it 04 Mach 1 12.7 @ 109 mostly stock - sold it 89 LX procharged 302 515 hp 497 ftlbs 10.7 @130 mph - sold it

May 30th, 2008, 02:09 PM	#3
Bigfatts Regular Badass Mother 3000 Twice as fast as your ass! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lutz, Florida Posts: 234 iTrader: 1 reviews	I understand what you mean. I just got to thinking about it and pulled out the papers that came with the car. I have the dyno slip and it's 318 AT THE CRANK, not the wheels. That would put me roughly 270-ish at the wheels. Guess I should have looked at it closer before I bought the car... I just kinda took his word for it and only glanced at the sheet. Oh well, I do have the reciepts for the stroker stuff he bought so I'm not worried about that. Guess I have more to do than I thought. OK, so considering the lack of horsepower I thought I had, what do you think these upgrades will net me roughly? I am hoping for a considerable gain as I have a rematch with a particular SRT-4 to look forward to. I was also looking at the Trick Flow Street Heat intake, think that would do it? Last edited by Bigfatts; May 30th, 2008 at 02:13 PM.

May 30th, 2008, 04:39 PM	#4
ryans88gt MM Fanatic Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 4,737 iTrader: 0 reviews	good flowing heads and a matching intake...i.e. AFR 185s or trick flow CNC 185s and a systemax intake. Those options should give you about 75-100 more ponies at the wheels. __________________ 88 GT CHI headed 351w 10.8 @ 125 - still figuring it out. 03 Cobra 2.3 whipple 10.7 @ 129 - sold it 04 Mach 1 12.7 @ 109 mostly stock - sold it 89 LX procharged 302 515 hp 497 ftlbs 10.7 @130 mph - sold it

May 30th, 2008, 07:35 PM	#9
Squints 2008 Hammock Rodeo Champ 2003 F-150 Lariat FX4 Supercab Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: VB,VA Posts: 1,236 iTrader: 0 reviews	this guy is in your area and selling some TF heads for 800 bucks don't know if it's what you're looking for, but.... __________________ i have no mustang. so don't listen to anything i say.

May 30th, 2008, 04:55 PM	#5
JBIGBOOTSY MM Fanatic 1990 LX hatch Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hobart Indiana Posts: 4,391 iTrader: 0 reviews	19#ers cant support 318hp

May 30th, 2008, 06:55 PM	#6
Bigfatts Regular Badass Mother 3000 Twice as fast as your ass! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lutz, Florida Posts: 234 iTrader: 1 reviews	Thanx guys. Should I go with 24 or 30lb injectors? I also looked at cam prices and think I might go ahead and do one while I'm at it. Thinking Lunati. Suggestions? What would be a decent step up from my E?

May 30th, 2008, 09:31 PM	#11
JBIGBOOTSY MM Fanatic 1990 LX hatch Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hobart Indiana Posts: 4,391 iTrader: 0 reviews	^ yea, the 165s will flow about 50 cfm more than p's. p's flow 18cfm more than stock.

May 30th, 2008, 09:35 PM	#12
JBIGBOOTSY MM Fanatic 1990 LX hatch Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hobart Indiana Posts: 4,391 iTrader: 0 reviews	sorry, p's flow about 30cfm more than stock^ don't listen to this guy, he dosen't know what he's talking about

May 31st, 2008, 01:30 AM	#14
Bigfatts Regular Badass Mother 3000 Twice as fast as your ass! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lutz, Florida Posts: 234 iTrader: 1 reviews	Thanx for the contact Squints I'll give him a call when I get back in town. The flow numbers are also helpful guys. I am still a Ford newb and don't know what works best. PS- So I should stick with my E cam?

May 31st, 2008, 11:26 AM	#16
Bigfatts Regular Badass Mother 3000 Twice as fast as your ass! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lutz, Florida Posts: 234 iTrader: 1 reviews	Thanx for the contact Squints I'll give him a call when I get back in town. The flow numbers are also helpful guys. I am still a Ford newb and don't know what works best. PS- So I should stick with my E cam?

May 31st, 2008, 11:31 AM	#17
Bigfatts Regular Badass Mother 3000 Twice as fast as your ass! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lutz, Florida Posts: 234 iTrader: 1 reviews	Thanx for the tips and numbers guys. Squints I'm going to call that guy when I get back to town.

June 1st, 2008, 10:13 PM	#19
demonicus Regular 1988 mustang LX coupe Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Maple Ridge, BC, Canada Posts: 137 iTrader: 0 reviews	well here's a breakdown for ya... 19 inj wont support 318hp. so I'm guessing there's a different set of injectors used for that dyno pull. patriot heads are now known to have some of their combustion chambers out as much as 4cc. Sooo you get what you pay for. The GT40 intake is better then the stock one but is only the next line up on the better scale. Almost every other aftermarket intake is better then the gt40... but it's a nice unit for the money I guess. If your going to go forced induction then get a box intake... tfsRbox or the BBKssiR otherwise I suggest you take a look at www.trickflow.com and see their numbers for each kit they sell... street, twisted wedge, R series. Edelbrock makes some nice stuff too. But I'm just not an edelbrock guy. for a TB get yourself the 70mm... it'll be good for future and where your at. __________________ 89GTcoupe- 304ci, tfs1cam, tftw heads, 2.5"flowies, GT40intake, TF23lb inj, t5 w CFDF, SN5bolt, 3.73gears, GTkit, Y2K R wing, 17" Tribars 88coupe- lookin for a new powerplant

June 1st, 2008, 10:18 PM	#20
JBIGBOOTSY MM Fanatic 1990 LX hatch Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hobart Indiana Posts: 4,391 iTrader: 0 reviews	^ HOW ARE YOU NOT AN EDLBROCK GUY? You dont like their logo design or somthing.

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