[OTreborO]

Originally Posted by 82GT Originally Posted by Darrell Do a search and you will find we just discussed this topic. Aftermarket shorties don't make any more power than stock shorties. That has been proven on a dyno. Don't waste your money on shorties. That's not true. Did you ever see the kinks in a stock set of shorties not to mention their small diameter pipes? My BBK 1 5/8 shorties are waaaaay better than ANY stock set of shorty headers. They are mandrel bent and have larger pipes. Yes, longtubes make more power but PLEASE don't claim shorties don't make any more power than stock ones.

So the dyno thing was just a claim??????

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by 82GT That's not true. Did you ever see the kinks in a stock set of shorties not to mention their small diameter pipes? My BBK 1 5/8 shorties are waaaaay better than ANY stock set of shorty headers. They are mandrel bent and have larger pipes. Yes, longtubes make more power but PLEASE don't claim shorties don't make any more power than stock ones.

Its not true? Yes I have seen all the kinks in stock shorty headers. Have you ever tested them versus aftermarket on a dyno? No, that's what I thought.

Originally Posted by 82GT I didn't have it dynoed but I've seen guys running 11's with shorties. Shorties generally make more mid to upper power and longtubes usually make more lower end power.......as a rule of thumb. I'm not saying it's gospel or written in stone though but just as a rule of thumb.

Long tube headers make more power across the board because they scavenge the cylinders better. I've seen guys run 11.90s naturally aspirated with stock shorty headers, so what is your point?

Originally Posted by 82GT Longtubes are not for EVERY engine. For instance, they would do little or nothing for a stock engine with stock exhaust. When you say a car can run 11's with stock exhaust, that all depends on what size pipes are stock to begin with. How many cars with 2inch exhaust do you see run 11's (without any power adders)? I agree with nine-dee coupe said above and from what I've seen at the track, it's pretty much consistant with that statement. I hope this message board isn't like another one I visit often, where there is a standard answer for nearly every question about an engine build. Over there, the only way to build is: a CUSTOM cam, ALUMINUM heads and to stroke the engine! Just because I'm a "newbie" on here doesn't mean I don't have any knowledge. It just means I've only started to post recently.

Long tubes are more efficient on any engine. An internal combustion engine is nothing more than an air pump. Air in, air out. The more efficiently you pump the air, the more horsepower you will make. The point I was making in this thread is if you are going to spend the money on exhaust and headers go with a set of long tube headers and don't waste money on shorties. This is what I've experienced on the dyno and at the track, not what I think or what I've read in magazines. ninedee-coupe was looking for information and I gave him information based on real world experience and also posted some dyno information. Do with it what you like...

[82GT]

So, you're saying if I swapped my BBK shorties for some longtubes I would see a noticable gain in my trap speed and possibly E.T?

My argument wasn't that longtubes aren't good. I was contesting the statement that aftermarket shorties are no better than stock shorties.
Besides, if someone only wanted to build a 300-325hp car then why bother with the extra cost of longtubes when a good set of aftermarket shorties will get the job done?
If somone wanted to build a 10-11 second car then definatly I would say longtubes.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by 82GT So, you're saying if I swapped my BBK shorties for some longtubes I would see a noticable gain in my trap speed and possibly E.T? My argument wasn't that longtubes aren't good. I was contesting the statement that aftermarket shorties are no better than stock shorties. Besides, if someone only wanted to build a 300-325hp car then why bother with the extra cost of longtubes when a good set of aftermarket shorties will get the job done? If somone wanted to build a 10-11 second car then definatly I would say longtubes.

Depends on what you consider noticeable. I'd be willing to bet you'd see a close to a tenth or so assuming the rest of the exhaust is good flowing. If a guy wants to spend money on aftermarket shorties, fine. I'd put the money somewhere else where it will actually be beneficial. But what do I know......

[OTreborO]

Originally Posted by Darrell Originally Posted by 82GT So, you're saying if I swapped my BBK shorties for some longtubes I would see a noticable gain in my trap speed and possibly E.T? My argument wasn't that longtubes aren't good. I was contesting the statement that aftermarket shorties are no better than stock shorties. Besides, if someone only wanted to build a 300-325hp car then why bother with the extra cost of longtubes when a good set of aftermarket shorties will get the job done? If somone wanted to build a 10-11 second car then definatly I would say longtubes. Depends on what you consider noticeable. I'd be willing to bet you'd see a close to a tenth or so assuming the rest of the exhaust is good flowing. If a guy wants to spend money on aftermarket shorties, fine. I'd put the money somewhere else where it will actually be beneficial. But what do I know......

I can feel the love......................

[82GT]

Originally Posted by OTreborO Actually I will lie if I think I can speak intelligently about something enough to fool someone, but usually I can't speak intelligently Damn I am bored today, bet ya couldn't tell Future Post Whore in the making..........................

I can tell because you haven't added anything intelligent or even worth listening to.
Are you "Mikey" from American Chopper...

[82GT]

Originally Posted by Darrell Depends on what you consider noticeable. I'd be willing to bet you'd see a close to a tenth or so assuming the rest of the exhaust is good flowing. If a guy wants to spend money on aftermarket shorties, fine. I'd put the money somewhere else where it will actually be beneficial. But what do I know......

Hmmm...let's see now...spend about $400 for a set of longtubes and then
spend an entire afternoon or longer cussing and swearing because of the PITA it is to install longtubes ONLY to see about a tenth gain....not me!
It would be easier for me to trim 100lbs off the car and get the same gain as I would from longtubes.
Besides, I wouldn't notice the gains from the longtubes unless I was at the track. On the street, I wouldn't notice anything different.

[Tony_90fox]

Hey man, just get your shorties. None of our feelings will be hurt. This whole thread was about short vs. long tubes. MOST of us have said longtubes and there are better results from them, but we arent bashing you for getting shorties. I think that you (82 GT) have turned this whole thread into false knowledge and you blaim OTreborO for not having said one good thing, but you havent either. your facts arent straight or right, and everybody has said even with the pain of installing longtubes, the results and performance are worth it!

[82GT]

If you think a tenth is worth it then by all means...

[95opal]

A tenth with minimal mods as you keep progressing the gain will be more. Either way you look at it LTS free up more HP & TQ.
I think 82gt needs

[Tony_90fox]

so what are your shorties worth?

[82GT]

Originally Posted by Tony_90fox so what are your shorties worth?

Shorties are worth about 10-15hp and longtubes probably about...maybe 20-25hp......over stock.
I was just trying to justify the 10hp difference compared to the shorties.

Bottom line is this: If you building a mild modified vehical for daily use, shorties will give you added performance without the need for the expensive longtubes.
If you're building a highly modfied vehical that sees more time at the strip and want every last bit of power out of the engine then the longtubes are definatly the way to go.
It all depends on your hp level and expectations.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by 82GT Hmmm...let's see now...spend about $400 for a set of longtubes and then spend an entire afternoon or longer cussing and swearing because of the PITA it is to install longtubes ONLY to see about a tenth gain....not me! It would be easier for me to trim 100lbs off the car and get the same gain as I would from longtubes. Besides, I wouldn't notice the gains from the longtubes unless I was at the track. On the street, I wouldn't notice anything different.

BBK long tubes - $239
Time to install - 2 hours (not a pain at all)

Just go buy the damn shorties instead of arguing about it! Christ! I can tell you one thing, I've run 9.30s at over 3000 pounds with only 500 rear wheel horsepower so I obviously know a thing or two. I'm giving free advice based on experience, if you don't agree that is fine but don't spread misinformation to others if you don't know and are just making assumptions.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by 82GT Shorties are worth about 10-15hp and longtubes probably about...maybe 20-25hp......over stock. I was just trying to justify the 10hp difference compared to the shorties. Bottom line is this: If you building a mild modified vehical for daily use, shorties will give you added performance without the need for the expensive longtubes. If you're building a highly modfied vehical that sees more time at the strip and want every last bit of power out of the engine then the longtubes are definatly the way to go. It all depends on your hp level and expectations.

Have you seen 10-15hp on a dyno? No, you've seen a header company advertise it. I've seen 3hp going from a set of stock shorties to 1 5/8" shorties on a friends car. 3HP!!!!!!!!!

[82GT]

Originally Posted by Darrell [Just go buy the damn shorties instead of arguing about it! Christ! I can tell you one thing, I've run 9.30s at over 3000 pounds with only 500 rear wheel horsepower so I obviously know a thing or two. I'm giving free advice based on experience, if you don't agree that is fine but don't spread misinformation to others if you don't know and are just making assumptions.

I already have them. I'm not spreading misinformation either
Show me your "dyno" numbers for increases with longtubes over shorties.
Somehow my words got twisted all around...I never said longs were no good...show me once where I said that

[82GT]

Let's just agree that we both disagree.

[Justincredible]

Long tubes > Shorties

I witnessed a 89 GT with GT 40 heads, B cam, and Cobra intake on the dyno that only picked up 8 hp by swapping to a set of equal length shorty headers, from the factory headers.

Shorties, CAIs, and under drive pulleys are the most over rated bolt-on on the market.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by 82GT I already have them. I'm not spreading misinformation either Show me your "dyno" numbers for increases with longtubes over shorties. Somehow my words got twisted all around...I never said longs were no good...show me once where I said that

I did post dyno numbers but you must have missed it so I'll post them again. This is courtesy of Mr. Richard Holdener.

[Tony_90fox]

I actually did gain tq with my U/D pullies, but I do agree with you on shorties and CAI.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by Tony_90fox I actually did gain tq with my U/D pullies, but I do agree with you on shorties and CAI.

Pullies?