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post #1 of 15 Old September 23rd, 2008, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Nitrous Question with timing

Lets say I am running 16deg. initial timing with 38deg. total.
And then lets say I want to run a 250 shot of nitrous, but before I can do this I need to pull 10deg. out of my total timing so I do not grenade my motor. How do I pull 10deg out of a stock distributer (in a fuel injected car) without affecting my 16deg. initial timing? I need the most simplest way of doing this. but remember I do not want to hurt my 16deg. initial timing.
I hope this makes sense.
Thanks,
Kevin.
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post #2 of 15 Old September 23rd, 2008, 01:26 PM
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You can leave the spout out and set the timing to 28 total.

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post #3 of 15 Old September 23rd, 2008, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93mustank View Post
You can leave the spout out and set the timing to 28 total.
+1

My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


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post #4 of 15 Old September 23rd, 2008, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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If I pull the spout out do I leave it out and not put it back in? And if I bring my total down to 28 with just turning my distributer what will that make my initial timing? I may be making this harder then it is, byt I just want to understand and not ruin my motor in the process.

Thanks

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post #5 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevnsue View Post
If I pull the spout out do I leave it out and not put it back in? And if I bring my total down to 28 with just turning my distributer what will that make my initial timing? I may be making this harder then it is, byt I just want to understand and not ruin my motor in the process.

Thanks

kevin.
Yes...if you leave the spout out it will be 28 the whole time...all the way thru the rpm....

The spout connector is just a jump wire.... It allows the computer to add timing throughout the rpm range.... usually all the timing is in by 3000.

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post #6 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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Are you saying from start to finish it will be at 28deg. Becouse that will not work. It will ping itself to death. Let me know if I am wrong.
Thanks,

Kevin
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post #7 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevnsue View Post
Are you saying from start to finish it will be at 28deg. Becouse that will not work. It will ping itself to death. Let me know if I am wrong.
Thanks,

Kevin

How will it ping itself to death? You said you needed to remove 10 degrees and your total timing was at 38 right now. 38-10=28 and if you lock it out at 28 degrees you will be where you need to be.

My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


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post #8 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell View Post
How will it ping itself to death? You said you needed to remove 10 degrees and your total timing was at 38 right now. 38-10=28 and if you lock it out at 28 degrees you will be where you need to be.
As long as you never floor it below 3000 rpms...lol 28 degrees of timing at off idle will cause a lot of pinging down low if you make a habit of flooring it between 1-3000. If you have an automatic with a sloppy converter, no problem.

Also with an A9L 16 degrees initial is not 38, it would be closer to 34 total.

As far as changing the timing curve so that you can have less total and the same initial timing, you would need a custom chip burned, such as an SCT flip chip that can give you a nitrous tune (with less timing advance) and a regular tune.

Otherwise, the best way is going to be to get a MSD timing retard module so you can adjust the timing. If you set your initial timing back to 6 degrees it is going to run like shit in day to day driving.

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03 Cobra 2.3 whipple 10.7 @ 129 - sold it
04 Mach 1 12.7 @ 109 mostly stock - sold it
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post #9 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryans88gt View Post
As long as you never floor it below 3000 rpms...lol 28 degrees of timing at off idle will cause a lot of pinging down low if you make a habit of flooring it between 1-3000. If you have an automatic with a sloppy converter, no problem.

Also with an A9L 16 degrees initial is not 38, it would be closer to 34 total.

As far as changing the timing curve so that you can have less total and the same initial timing, you would need a custom chip burned, such as an SCT flip chip that can give you a nitrous tune (with less timing advance) and a regular tune.

Otherwise, the best way is going to be to get a MSD timing retard module so you can adjust the timing. If you set your initial timing back to 6 degrees it is going to run like shit in day to day driving.
Flooring it off idle will not cause any pinging, especially with only 28 degrees. I lock out the timing on alot of my cars and run any where from 32 to 36 degrees depending on which car it is.

The A9L isn't always 16 degrees. It depends on what spout connector you have. Different spout connectors have different resistance. They alow different amounts of timing. This information is available from Ford.

My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


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post #10 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
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Ok How about starting problems? Is it going to want to start with that much timing and when you say lock out the dist. what do you mean? How do you do that?
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post #11 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kevnsue View Post
Ok How about starting problems? Is it going to want to start with that much timing and when you say lock out the dist. what do you mean? How do you do that?
Yes it will start just fine. Technically its not locked out, it is just not controlled by the computer anymore when the spout connector is removed.

My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


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post #12 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell View Post
Different spout connectors have different resistance. They alow different amounts of timing. This information is available from Ford.
Wow really see I alway's wonderd this. I have like four different spouts, I've always wanted one that would give the least timing up for when I jet my car to a full 200. I also have locked my timing before and I don't like it. Its ok just weird. How would you recomend finding that info
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post #13 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by gotn20 View Post
Wow really see I alway's wonderd this. I have like four different spouts, I've always wanted one that would give the least timing up for when I jet my car to a full 200. I also have locked my timing before and I don't like it. Its ok just weird. How would you recomend finding that info
You can find the info in a Ford manual. Someone on here has the info.......but I forgot who.

My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


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post #14 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell View Post
Flooring it off idle will not cause any pinging, especially with only 28 degrees. I lock out the timing on alot of my cars and run any where from 32 to 36 degrees depending on which car it is.

The A9L isn't always 16 degrees. It depends on what spout connector you have. Different spout connectors have different resistance. They alow different amounts of timing. This information is available from Ford.
Not sure where you are getting this info, but the timing tables are programed into the A9L and have nothing to do with resistance in the PIP circuit. It is always 18 degrees +- 2 degrees and is retarded 2 degrees if the car is over 190 degrees ECT. Call up Bob Kurgan or Rick Anderson, if you don't believe me, that is where I got my info directly.

My car would definitely ping if I floored it at 1500 rpms and 28 degrees timing. Plus under light load high rpms you will not have nearly enough timing. Ex: during cruise operation you need more like 45 degrees timing to get optimal fuel mileage and burn. If you have your timing locked out, the fuel mileage goes down and the engine runs hotter. I'd rather spend the $200 on a MSD timing control.

Also, take a ohmeter to your spout, you should have 0 resistance between the pins, since it is just a metal jumper with no resistance.

88 GT CHI headed 351w 10.8 @ 125 - still figuring it out.
03 Cobra 2.3 whipple 10.7 @ 129 - sold it
04 Mach 1 12.7 @ 109 mostly stock - sold it
89 LX procharged 302 515 hp 497 ftlbs 10.7 @130 mph - sold it


Last edited by ryans88gt; September 24th, 2008 at 09:28 PM.
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post #15 of 15 Old September 24th, 2008, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryans88gt View Post
Not sure where you are getting this info, but the timing tables are programed into the A9L and have nothing to do with resistance in the PIP circuit. It is always 18 degrees +- 2 degrees and is retarded 2 degrees if the car is over 190 degrees ECT. Call up Bob Kurgan or Rick Anderson, if you don't believe me, that is where I got my info directly.

My car would definitely ping if I floored it at 1500 rpms and 28 degrees timing. Plus under light load high rpms you will not have nearly enough timing. Ex: during cruise operation you need more like 45 degrees timing to get optimal fuel mileage and burn. If you have your timing locked out, the fuel mileage goes down and the engine runs hotter. I'd rather spend the $200 on a MSD timing control.

Also, take a ohmeter to your spout, you should have 0 resistance between the pins, since it is just a metal jumper with no resistance.
I have a spout connector in my tool box that proves otherwise. It is from a 1990 Lincoln Mark VII that I had.

Have you ever ran locked out timing? If not then you probably shouldn't argue your opinions. I've run locked out timing on alot of my cars, both carbureted and EFI. Its more common than not on performance carbureted cars. I'd like to see any performance application run 45 degrees at cruise rpms, especially under any load. That is funny stuff right there. I can guarantee none of my cars will run anywhere near 45 degrees at cruising speeds without pinging the pistons right out of the block. Part throttle is the first place I notice pinging on my cars when I add anymore timing. If it pings by lightly stepping on the throttle while cruising when I move the timing up to 36 degrees, 45 degrees will sound lovely.

My daily driver has 16 cylinders and 4400hp @ 1000 rpm....


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