O2 sensor question

December 11th, 2006, 10:31 PM	#1
Tony_90fox I'm your huckleberry Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bowling Green, KY Posts: 3,766	O2 sensor question Okay i am getting my tranny swap started now, and the guy is also gonna do my exhaust....while he was looking at my exhaust, he found that my O2 sensor wholes had been welded shut and said i would need to get new O2 sensors and get them in there.... Do i really need O2 sensors? the exhaust is LTs, o/r x, and flows...the new tranny will be a manual....let me know if i need them, No emissions to pass or anything like that. if you need any more info about the car, let me know that too. Thanks

December 11th, 2006, 11:15 PM

TENGRAM

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Re: O2 sensor question

Originally Posted by Tony_90fox

Okay i am getting my tranny swap started now, and the guy is also gonna do my exhaust....while he was looking at my exhaust, he found that my O2 sensor wholes had been welded shut and said i would need to get new O2 sensors and get them in there....

Do i really need O2 sensors? the exhaust is LTs, o/r x, and flows...the new tranny will be a manual....let me know if i need them, No emissions to pass or anything like that.

if you need any more info about the car, let me know that too.
Thanks

for optimum performance, yes you need them. for your car to run right, obviously not since you've made it this far. i do suggest the use of an adjustable fuel pressure regulator as well as a fuel pressure gauge. minimum setting of 40psi but i would set it to 42 to be extra safe. also what would be an even better idea is to get a wideband o2 sensor and an air/fuel ratio gauge so you can fine-tune the fuel pressure to get as near stoich (about 14.5:1) as possible.

one question...do you still have o2s hooked up at all, maybe hanging somewhere else? if they are, unhook them or they will read the obviously lean atmospheric a/f ratio and the ECM will constantly be richening the mix by lengthening the injector pulsewidth to the maximum.

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December 11th, 2006, 11:39 PM

Tony_90fox

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well this exhaust is on my parts car and whoever rigged this thing was dumb and i could have done a better job. i will have the guy doing the swap for me do some more searching on the car....How much are those wideband sensors you spoke of?

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Originally Posted by White99stang

Its getting kinda late so i am sorry for the language guys, i need to watch what i say.

December 11th, 2006, 11:51 PM

Justincredible

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Re: O2 sensor question

Originally Posted by TENGRAM

Originally Posted by Tony_90fox

Okay i am getting my tranny swap started now, and the guy is also gonna do my exhaust....while he was looking at my exhaust, he found that my O2 sensor wholes had been welded shut and said i would need to get new O2 sensors and get them in there....

Do i really need O2 sensors? the exhaust is LTs, o/r x, and flows...the new tranny will be a manual....let me know if i need them, No emissions to pass or anything like that.

if you need any more info about the car, let me know that too.
Thanks

for optimum performance, yes you need them. for your car to run right, obviously not since you've made it this far. i do suggest the use of an adjustable fuel pressure regulator as well as a fuel pressure gauge. minimum setting of 40psi but i would set it to 42 to be extra safe. also what would be an even better idea is to get a wideband o2 sensor and an air/fuel ratio gauge so you can fine-tune the fuel pressure to get as near stoich (about 14.5:1) as possible.

one question...do you still have o2s hooked up at all, maybe hanging somewhere else? if they are, unhook them or they will read the obviously lean atmospheric a/f ratio and the ECM will constantly be richening the mix by lengthening the injector pulsewidth to the maximum.

Or....he could take it to a local dyno shop and get a tune that would cost alot less than buying a adj FPR and a wide band setup.

FYI...tuning via fuel pressure is not the correct way to adjust for rich/lean issues.

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December 12th, 2006, 12:01 AM

TENGRAM

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Originally Posted by Tony_90fox

well this exhaust is on my parts car and whoever rigged this thing was dumb and i could have done a better job. i will have the guy doing the swap for me do some more searching on the car....How much are those wideband sensors you spoke of?

not too cheap usually. i did find this one for a good price, but you should contact the manufacturer of the a/f gauge that you want to verify compatibility. the key though is that you get a wideband because the narrowband sensors will only tell you rich or lean, not by how much.

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December 12th, 2006, 12:06 AM	#6
TENGRAM Hardcore Enthusiast Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,027	this looks like a good setup: http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/aem_uego_controller/ "Universal All Years 30-4100 $279.99 Specs: SIX-IN-ONE GAUGE-TYPE UEGO CONTROLLER - Yes, we have this in stock, and ready to ship!" __________________ 89 GT t5 3.73 www.my5oh.com/

December 12th, 2006, 12:28 AM

Tony_90fox

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Justin: by saying taking it to a dyno and tuning it do you also mean not getting any O2 sensors? I am getting a tune @ Speedy's of all places (LOL) in a few months, explain your reasoning further as i dont have tons of money...explain the cheapest route for me to take in anybody's opinion please

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Originally Posted by White99stang

Its getting kinda late so i am sorry for the language guys, i need to watch what i say.

December 12th, 2006, 12:39 AM

TENGRAM

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Re: O2 sensor question

Originally Posted by Justincredible

Originally Posted by TENGRAM

Originally Posted by Tony_90fox

Okay i am getting my tranny swap started now, and the guy is also gonna do my exhaust....while he was looking at my exhaust, he found that my O2 sensor wholes had been welded shut and said i would need to get new O2 sensors and get them in there....

Do i really need O2 sensors? the exhaust is LTs, o/r x, and flows...the new tranny will be a manual....let me know if i need them, No emissions to pass or anything like that.

if you need any more info about the car, let me know that too.
Thanks

for optimum performance, yes you need them. for your car to run right, obviously not since you've made it this far. i do suggest the use of an adjustable fuel pressure regulator as well as a fuel pressure gauge. minimum setting of 40psi but i would set it to 42 to be extra safe. also what would be an even better idea is to get a wideband o2 sensor and an air/fuel ratio gauge so you can fine-tune the fuel pressure to get as near stoich (about 14.5:1) as possible.

one question...do you still have o2s hooked up at all, maybe hanging somewhere else? if they are, unhook them or they will read the obviously lean atmospheric a/f ratio and the ECM will constantly be richening the mix by lengthening the injector pulsewidth to the maximum.

Or....he could take it to a local dyno shop and get a tune that would cost alot less than buying a adj FPR and a wide band setup.

FYI...tuning via fuel pressure is not the correct way to adjust for rich/lean issues.

how much would a dyno tuned chip cost? about the same as a $50 afpr and a $250-300 wideband setup. in truth the cheapest and best route would be to re drill the holes for his stock o2s, since they will get the a/f ratio perfect (14.64:1). but tuning via fuel pressure is not a bad method at all, so long as he doesn't lower pressure below stock level.

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December 12th, 2006, 01:40 AM

Justincredible

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Originally Posted by Tony_90fox

Justin: by saying taking it to a dyno and tuning it do you also mean not getting any O2 sensors? I am getting a tune @ Speedy's of all places (LOL) in a few months, explain your reasoning further as i dont have tons of money...explain the cheapest route for me to take in anybody's opinion please

You will definatly need to get the OEM O2's reinstalled...

If you were planing on getting a tune anyways...then definatly dont spend the money on the wide band setup.

As far as adjusting the A/F via an adj. regulator...if your needing to do that...then the problem is somewhere else and it needs to be address instead of putting a "band aid" on it.

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December 12th, 2006, 01:47 AM

#10

Justincredible

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Re: O2 sensor question

Originally Posted by TENGRAM

how much would a dyno tuned chip cost? about the same as a $50 afpr and a $250-300 wideband setup. in truth the cheapest and best route would be to re drill the holes for his stock o2s, since they will get the a/f ratio perfect (14.64:1). but tuning via fuel pressure is not a bad method at all, so long as he doesn't lower pressure below stock level.

I have yet to see a car come into the dyno that had the right A/F right off the bat...stock or not.

Especialy those cars with CAIs and altered exhaust.

People put way too much faith into the abilitys of the stock ECU to adjust itself properly. This is more so with the 95 and earlier cars.

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BIVENS RACE CARS FTMFW!!!

December 12th, 2006, 02:00 AM

#11

TENGRAM

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Originally Posted by Justincredible

Originally Posted by Tony_90fox

Justin: by saying taking it to a dyno and tuning it do you also mean not getting any O2 sensors? I am getting a tune @ Speedy's of all places (LOL) in a few months, explain your reasoning further as i dont have tons of money...explain the cheapest route for me to take in anybody's opinion please

You will definatly need to get the OEM O2's reinstalled...

If you were planing on getting a tune anyways...then definatly dont spend the money on the wide band setup.

As far as adjusting the A/F via an adj. regulator...if your needing to do that...then the problem is somewhere else and it needs to be address instead of putting a "band aid" on it.

i won't/can't argue with this...however i do suggest forgoing the dyno tune since you have minimal mods...and since your combo is likely to change. i would save it for when you get more mods. (actually i would get a tweecerRT and wideband, but thats just me)

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December 12th, 2006, 02:08 AM

#12

Tony_90fox

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well the dyno tune is coming after over $6000 in mods..i think i will need one then dont you? Its not coming now, i just tuned and timed my car and it runs better than ever after my quick little rebuild. The tune will be after stroker kit, TF top end, etc...

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Originally Posted by White99stang

Its getting kinda late so i am sorry for the language guys, i need to watch what i say.

December 12th, 2006, 02:34 AM

#13

TENGRAM

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Re: O2 sensor question

Originally Posted by Justincredible

I have yet to see a car come into the dyno that had the right A/F right off the bat...stock or not.

Especialy those cars with CAIs and altered exhaust.

People put way too much faith into the abilitys of the stock ECU to adjust itself properly. This is more so with the 95 and earlier cars.

the EEC, for reasons only known by ford engineers it seems, does not always aim for a stoich a/f ratio. some conditions, apparently, call for a leaner or richer mix. this is not to say that the EEC can't adjust itself properly, quite the contrary. it does exactly what its supposed to do, provided none of its equipment has been altered.

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December 12th, 2006, 02:38 AM

#14

TENGRAM

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Originally Posted by Tony_90fox

well the dyno tune is coming after over $6000 in mods..i think i will need one then dont you? Its not coming now, i just tuned and timed my car and it runs better than ever after my quick little rebuild. The tune will be after stroker kit, TF top end, etc...

sounds like a solid plan. again though, a tweecerRT is the way i'd go. not sure if a dyno can help with part-throttle adjustments...hopefully justin can shed some light on the subject

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December 12th, 2006, 11:21 AM

#15

Justincredible

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Originally Posted by TENGRAM

Originally Posted by Tony_90fox

well the dyno tune is coming after over $6000 in mods..i think i will need one then dont you? Its not coming now, i just tuned and timed my car and it runs better than ever after my quick little rebuild. The tune will be after stroker kit, TF top end, etc...

sounds like a solid plan. again though, a tweecerRT is the way i'd go. not sure if a dyno can help with part-throttle adjustments...hopefully justin can shed some light on the subject

Im not sure where your going with that but I will say this...

With the SCT software, you can remap the entire fuel and igniton curve throught out the entire rpm range at any throtle postion.

Its not rocket science by any means...just need a "loading" chassis dyno and data logger.

I have also seen and used the tweecerRT. Like any other tunning setup...it does work....but I was not impressed with it.

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December 12th, 2006, 01:08 PM

#16

TENGRAM

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Originally Posted by Justincredible

Originally Posted by TENGRAM

Originally Posted by Tony_90fox

well the dyno tune is coming after over $6000 in mods..i think i will need one then dont you? Its not coming now, i just tuned and timed my car and it runs better than ever after my quick little rebuild. The tune will be after stroker kit, TF top end, etc...

sounds like a solid plan. again though, a tweecerRT is the way i'd go. not sure if a dyno can help with part-throttle adjustments...hopefully justin can shed some light on the subject

Im not sure where your going with that but I will say this...

With the SCT software, you can remap the entire fuel and igniton curve throught out the entire rpm range at any throtle postion.

Its not rocket science by any means...just need a "loading" chassis dyno and data logger.

I have also seen and used the tweecerRT. Like any other tunning setup...it does work....but I was not impressed with it.

where i'm going with it? just trying to learn...yes, there are some areas where i don't know everything (surprising as it may be :wink ), so i'm taking this opportunity to ask questions. primarily i'm curious how SCT accounts for every situation, load, throttle position, rpm (questions you've answered)...and whether a shop would really take the time to simulate each of these on the dyno. seems like it would take a full day if not days. i like the idea of a tweecer because, i'm a tweaker...i want to be able to do the tune myself and change variables as i see fit and as mods progress. i never want to be at a standing point long enough to keep a chip tune, i'd need to go back regularly ($$$). another thing is that i don't trust shops at all. even if a few are honest and do good work, the majority are not and don't. lastly i've seen a lot of support online for tweecer online.

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December 12th, 2006, 07:49 PM

#17

Tony_90fox

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"We'll use your car's o2 sensors, just where they thread into the longtube headers on the parts car we'll have to put new mounting bungs."

That is the exact words that the guy told me that we can do. Does anybody see a problem with that or am I good to go?

Thanks

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Originally Posted by White99stang

Its getting kinda late so i am sorry for the language guys, i need to watch what i say.

December 12th, 2006, 10:36 PM

#18

TENGRAM

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Originally Posted by Tony_90fox

"We'll use your car's o2 sensors, just where they thread into the longtube headers on the parts car we'll have to put new mounting bungs."

That is the exact words that the guy told me that we can do. Does anybody see a problem with that or am I good to go?

Thanks

it all depends on where the o2 bungs are located...if they are in a comparable spot to stock location they should be ok...only one way to find out though

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December 13th, 2006, 09:23 PM	#19
Tony_90fox I'm your huckleberry Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bowling Green, KY Posts: 3,766	yep, i will keep you guys informed on whether it went smoothly or not! __________________ MM Sapper Squad