[buckethead151]

I have been thinking about upgrading cams and I wanted some help picking one. I have about $1000 to spend on the whole thing and i am installing it myself. Is a tune really needed? I have been looking at the Comp Cam's Thumper, will this cam jack up the compter?

[95opal]

Originally Posted by buckethead151 I have been thinking about upgrading cams and I wanted some help picking one. I have about $1000 to spend on the whole thing and i am installing it myself. Is a tune really needed? I have been looking at the Comp Cam's Thumper, will this cam jack up the compter?

For starters your car only has one cam and unless you have upgraded your heads installing a cam at this point is a total waste of time and money.

[Bullitt95]

Originally Posted by buckethead151 I have been thinking about upgrading cams and I wanted some help picking one. I have about $1000 to spend on the whole thing and i am installing it myself. Is a tune really needed? I have been looking at the Comp Cam's Thumper, will this cam jack up the compter?

What other mods do you have so far? Like 95opal said, you'd be wasting your money/time upgrading the cam if you still have the stock heads.

[buckethead151]

I am not only wanting to get a cam right now. I am looking at the AFR 185's with the 58cc chambers. I just wanted to know about the cam right now. I already learned about the heads. Which is better for my settup, Comp Cam Thumpr or the Trick Flow Stage 2? I have other little bolt'ons like 65mm TB and Headers, MSD, They guy i got the car from said it has the E303 cam in my car right now.

[95opal]

I hope you realize you will have to flycut the pistons as the valve reliefs are to small for the 185s.

[buckethead151]

I did not know that. I know this question is really over asked but what heads do you recommend. Honestly I don't want to spend over 1500 on both the heads and the cam and i plan to buy the heads used. What would be the best heads for my situation. I want moderate power gains and a cool idle. I hope to raise the horsepower to anywhere to 250 to 300. Is that a reasonable goal?

[Bullitt95]

If you're going to leave the stock bottom end untouched, I'd suggest you go for either the TFS 170cc FAC heads or the AFR 165's. For the cam, I'd choose the CompCams XE270HR-14. With its 114* LSA it's computer-friendly and the 0.512" of valve lift (with 1.6 ratio rockers) will not cause any PTV clearance issues.
You forgot to mention the third part of the HCI equation: the intake. The best choice will depend on where in the rpm range you want the most torque and whether you plan to add forced induction later on.

[buckethead151]

Originally Posted by Bullitt95 If you're going to leave the stock bottom end untouched, I'd suggest you go for either the TFS 170cc FAC heads or the AFR 165's. For the cam, I'd choose the CompCams XE270HR-14. With its 114* LSA it's computer-friendly and the 0.512" of valve lift (with 1.6 ratio rockers) will not cause any PTV clearance issues. You forgot to mention the third part of the HCI equation: the intake. The best choice will depend on where in the rpm range you want the most torque and whether you plan to add forced induction later on.

This is the best information i've recieved on this forum. You told me exactly what i wanted to know. I want to get an intake but with my budget, I don't think can afford it. I really do appreciate you. What power gains can i expect if i get the Trick Flow 170cc and the Comp Cam?

[StangBanger302]

Trick flow heads flow very well and make good power. With the right intake and supporting mods, you could definitely hit 300RWHP which is close to 400HP at the flywheel. And btw, lift on the cam is not what determines PTV clearence issues. Duration and other factors come into play. Keep in mind, with the trick flow heads you will need new rockers and pushrods.

[69fastback]

The cam should be the very last thing you buy. You posted asking about a camshaft, and didn't even mention you were looking at a set of heads. If you got a good cam recommendation off of your first post, and bought it, and then put a set of good flowing heads on there, you would have yourself a giant turd. Buy all the mods you plan on doing (ie...heads, intake, TB, gears, ect....) THEN buy your cam. It's the final piece of the puzzle to connect everything together.


The Thumpr cams are not good grinds for making power, especially on a stock compression engine. Anything less than 10.5:1, and it will be worthless. They really like more than 11:1. They are designed to sound good, and have a shit ton of overlap. Hence why the suck on a 9.5:1 engine.


TFS 170s would be good for you. You get the 2.02/1.60 valves (unlike the AFR 165s), and don't have to cut the pistons.

BUY ALL OTHER MODS FIRST. Everything affects your cam choice....EVERYTHING. You're engine mods, vehicle weight, gears, transmission, exhaust, tire size,turndowns or tailpipes, what fucking radio station you're listening to....everything.


So, when you get all your mods figured out, then post up more information about your car, then you can find a good cam. There is no possible way to give a good recommendation with what you have posted. All these things matter.......





except the radio station.

[buckethead151]

If i get the AFR 165's what combustion chamber? I found some 58cc's for a pretty good deal.

[69fastback]

AFR 165s will hold you back with the intake runner, and small valves......

[andy23]

Originally Posted by 69fastback AFR 165s will hold you back with the intake runner, and small valves......

Don't let the size of the AFR's fool you, they are a great head. There have been many people that have made well over 300 RWHP on a stock bottom end with the right combo, using the 165's.

I know boost is a different animal, but my old 94 made 506.5 RWHP & 510.9 RWTQ using untouched, straight out of the box, AFR 165's, on a stock bottom end.

[95opal]

Originally Posted by 69fastback AFR 165s will hold you back with the intake runner, and small valves......

Another thing dont believe everything you read ^^^^
......... its the interweb

[69fastback]

LOL!!!!! So you guys are saying the AFR 165s would be better than TW 170s??? HAHA!!!.What a joke...Exactly what you said. DON'T believe everything you read on the net. Now would you like to tell me WHY AFR 165s would be better than TW170s?


I'll start with a few things. Straight out of the box, the TW 170 flows about the same, and has more potential than an AFR 185. That's right. The smaller TW flows the same as the larger AFR, and can be ported to flow better than the AFR can flow. At .600 lift the AFR outflows it a little bit, but all through the mid lifts, where you're valves spend 95% of their time, the TW performs better. Are you going to be running .600 lift anyways? Probably not.

TWs have an UPDATED valve position, which IMPROVES the capabilities. TWs have a better cross section, which IMPROVES its capabilities.

And as I stated, if you compare the AFR 165, and the TW 170 side by side, the TWs give you 2.02/1.60 valves. If they had equal intake runners, the TWs would still outflow them, do to the things mentioned above, BUT the TW gives you MORE intake runner in this situation.

The TWs are built with better springs, and components then the AFR. Now I'm not saying AFRs are junk, but the TW is a better head....PERIOD.


So why would the AFRs be better than the TWs?

[69fastback]

The most important thing you can take away from this is, if you want your car to perform to the of its capabilities, DO NOT buy the cam until you have all your other mods in place. It's the very last piece of the puzzle. There has never been anything good come from buying a cam first, and building an engine around it.

[buckethead151]

I have totally decided to get the cam last. I want to get the Trick Flow 170's. Why do you have to get new rockers and push rods? Do they have to be a special kind. I'm looking at this stuff in a summit magazine and I didn't see any that said they were made for trick flow heads, but then again I just glanced at them. Do the TW heads raise the compression any?

[69fastback]

Anytime you change anything in the top, you have to measure for correct pushrod length, so it doesn't matter if you get AFRs, TWs, GT40s,ect..... You have to check the geometry. Any roller rocker will work with the TWs.

So if you put heads on, and don't do the cam at the same time, you'll have to change pushrods twice. Once when you put the heads on, and once when you change the cam

It will change the compression if the combustion chamber is different from stock.

[95opal]

Originally Posted by 69fastback LOL!!!!! So you guys are saying the AFR 165s would be better than TW 170s??? HAHA!!!.What a joke...Exactly what you said. DON'T believe everything you read on the net. Now would you like to tell me WHY AFR 165s would be better than TW170s? I'll start with a few things. Straight out of the box, the TW 170 flows about the same, and has more potential than an AFR 185. That's right. The smaller TW flows the same as the larger AFR, and can be ported to flow better than the AFR can flow. At .600 lift the AFR outflows it a little bit, but all through the mid lifts, where you're valves spend 95% of their time, the TW performs better. Are you going to be running .600 lift anyways? Probably not. TWs have an UPDATED valve position, which IMPROVES the capabilities. TWs have a better cross section, which IMPROVES its capabilities. And as I stated, if you compare the AFR 165, and the TW 170 side by side, the TWs give you 2.02/1.60 valves. If they had equal intake runners, the TWs would still outflow them, do to the things mentioned above, BUT the TW gives you MORE intake runner in this situation. The TWs are built with better springs, and components then the AFR. Now I'm not saying AFRs are junk, but the TW is a better head....PERIOD. So why would the AFRs be better than the TWs?

Im not hear to debate TW vs AFR That is a whole other ballgame.

I was just pointing out how outlandish your statement was.

If the AFR 165s are going to hold back his stockblock HCI build?
I would like to see some kind of hard data to back up your statement.. being your so sure of it.
Fact is they more than likey will put down very similar numbers as the TW head will on an HCI build. You can research till your blue in the face on this one and in the end you will see there really aint much difference.

And just a bit of info Flow numbers arent the whole tell tail story of a head theres plenty more involved.
Also if your going to run any type of decent cam the springs in both heads will need to be upgraded.

Now if you would like to go on and debate TW vs AFR make a seperate thread and bring along plenty of data not just mag clips of advertisements.

Just remember OP In the end it still boils down to the complete package.

[69fastback]

Well when you are making the comparison between the TW170, and the AFR165, the AFRs WILL hold it back plain and simple, and that's the basis of my statement, which isn't "outlandish.". It's fact.

You're absolutely right. Flow numbers do not tell the whole story of a head. They don't show that the cross section, bowls, and rotated valves make the TW a better head to make more torque and horsepower.

I don't have to research it, and neither does anyone else. Don't take my word for it. Call the biggest cam builders in the business, and ask them which head they prefer to make power with. Call Cam Motion, call Jay Allen, call Dave Crower, call Mark with Bullet. Call and ask them, and see what they say. These are the guys building the best cams on the street and the track. Ask them which the prefer. I know the answer because I've been through several combos, and I've personally spoken with most on that list about it.

If you don't want to go to that trouble, ask the guys on this site, that are going fast which is better. Ask Darrell, or e3sean.


I'm pretty sure the guys building cams for a living know more about it than any of us. I can get you any of those guys number if you don't want to take my word for it.