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Old March 11th, 2011, 12:02 PM   #21
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The problem with those simulators is that they're telling the computer that the EGR is still functioning when it's not. The computer will use the tables like the EGR is still there and without the exhaust gas in there everything will be off. Higher combustion temps and more fuel used than should be. If you delete it completely, you can get mileage back with a tune, but if you don't plan on tuning it and want better mileage, leave it on.

I completely forgot that the EGR system can clog up without the smog pump though. I ran EGR without a smog pump for a while and didn't have any problems, but I have seen where the system does get clogged up with carbon. I've also seen a guy do back to back dyno testing and said that there's no hp difference with a pump on and with it off, so if you want better MPG's I would leave it on and fix the EGR. If you do delete the smog pump, you need to plug the holes left in the back of the heads by the piping for the smog you remove. I believe it's a 5/8-11 bolt you need, one for each side, but I'm not 100% on the size and thread pitch so you may want to double check that before you buy them.

Or you can just delete them both and have the car tuned.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 01:02 PM   #22
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How much does it cost to tune the car?
Where can I get the EGR Valve?
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Old March 11th, 2011, 02:18 PM   #23
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I've never had a car tuned, I have a quarterhorse and I tune my car myself. I have under $500 in all the equipment and software including a wideband, but it does take a lot of time and patience to learn how to tune with a quarterhorse/tweecer. I would imagine you can do a professional dyno tune for less than that, but can't say that for sure. There's also some chip manufactures that are an alternative. They will burn a chip for your car that's more optimized than a stock tune, but I would check to make sure they have the EGR properly deleted in the tune before I bought one of them. I've seen some that give you free re-tunes for life so if you change parts on the car you just send the chip back to them and they re-tune it for free. Never had one of those either so I would ask around about them first if it were me.

You should be able to pick up an EGR at a parts store. If not I would hunt around online before I checked with the dealer. Dealer is almost always the highest price you'll pay for any part, but in some cases they're the only ones you can get certain parts from.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 10:20 PM   #24
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honestly though the Higher combustion temps will be minimal egr manly only operates during cruising and i have a lower temp stat and a griffin rad so im not worried so many people have done this with out any issues at all
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Old March 11th, 2011, 10:36 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Forest*SN95*50 View Post
honestly though the Higher combustion temps will be minimal egr manly only operates during cruising and i have a lower temp stat and a griffin rad so im not worried so many people have done this with out any issues at all
You're not going to damage anything like that, but it does cause your MPG to drop, which is the purpose of the op's thread. If it was just a matter of someone wanting to delete it for the sake of cleaning up the engine bay or something, I would say go for it. I did on my car long before I even knew what a quarterhorse was, lol.

You're also better off just unplugging the EGR than you are hooking up the simulators. With it unplugged, the EEC will bypass it in it's logic. It still won't be optimal for mileage though, but at least you won't have the higher temps of having the computer think the system is still functional. The EGR also is functional during part throttle acceleration on top of cruise, so that's why you can lose a few miles per gallon when you unhook it even if you're just driving normal... Not that the EGR alone will cause you to get 9MPG tho, but it's part of probably multiple issues this car has.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 10:40 PM   #26
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agreed is there a way to take it off and disable the function at the same time?
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Old March 11th, 2011, 10:41 PM   #27
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i will be removing all of the egr stuff in the passenger fender as well getting rid of smog and egr completely
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Old March 11th, 2011, 11:22 PM   #28
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Update:
Sorry it took me so long, I was out riding the Motorcycle while the day was nice. I forgot abou the timing. :/

Scanned: The A/C or Defrost we believe was on because my Heater was turned on, which we completely forgot about. As well my A/C is dead, like it doesn't produce cold air anymore or at least as cold as it should.


I'd like to delete it, like my mechanic said I should. Since I don't have Cats or a Smog Pump, what's the point of having the EGR. He told me to find out information before I decide what I want to do.

If I delete the EGR and use a Simulator, my milage is still going to suck? It cost like $100+ for a EGR Valve. :/ I'm not to worried about my milage, since I've been dealing with the 9 MPG for years now, but would be nice to get more than that at least. I don't think I'll get the car tuned or at least anytime soon, since it cost like $300+.
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Old March 12th, 2011, 02:35 AM   #29
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you will get better than 9 it will only effect the stock mgp but 1 or 2 mabey 3 thats it so you will be back to atleast 16 to 17 on the highway
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Old March 12th, 2011, 02:52 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Forest*SN95*50 View Post
you will get better than 9 it will only effect the stock mgp but 1 or 2 mabey 3 thats it so you will be back to atleast 16 to 17 on the highway
My 9 MPG was in city being good.
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Old March 12th, 2011, 11:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Forest*SN95*50 View Post
agreed is there a way to take it off and disable the function at the same time?
If it's unplugged, it's function is disabled in the EEC. Problem is that it will throw a code. If you put the simulator on, then it goes back to EGR tables without the exhaust gas present. If you don't have to worry about emissions testing, then you're better off just unplugging the EGR and living with the CEL. I mean it is really just semantics in the end because it's not a huge deal either way, but I'm a bit anal about it all, and if you lose 2mpg using a simulator over having a functioning EGR, it's worth it IMO at $4 a freaking gallon right now.

If you've got a tuner, it's even better because you can just turn off the EGR monitor completely in the EEC and the CEL goes off. If you run a QH, you actually use the EGR input on the EEC for your wideband o2 sensor.
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Old March 12th, 2011, 11:52 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by BikerSk8rKid View Post

I'd like to delete it, like my mechanic said I should. Since I don't have Cats or a Smog Pump, what's the point of having the EGR. He told me to find out information before I decide what I want to do.
The EGR takes exhaust straight out of your header and feeds it back into the intake. It lowers combustion temps because the exhaust gas isn't combustible so it's basically like filling up part of the combustion chamber with dead space when it's in use. The more exhaust gas in the cylinder, the less space there is for air. Less air means you need less fuel, so in the end, you're effectively reducing the displacement of the cylinder by filling it partly with exhaust gas. This is why it's only active during part throttle and cruise because you don't need the power of the full cylinder at that point. What it boils down to is less displacement means better fuel efficiency.
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Old March 12th, 2011, 11:55 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by fogged306 View Post
If it's unplugged, it's function is disabled in the EEC. Problem is that it will throw a code. If you put the simulator on, then it goes back to EGR tables without the exhaust gas present. If you don't have to worry about emissions testing, then you're better off just unplugging the EGR and living with the CEL. I mean it is really just semantics in the end because it's not a huge deal either way, but I'm a bit anal about it all, and if you lose 2mpg using a simulator over having a functioning EGR, it's worth it IMO at $4 a freaking gallon right now.

If you've got a tuner, it's even better because you can just turn off the EGR monitor completely in the EEC and the CEL goes off. If you run a QH, you actually use the EGR input on the EEC for your wideband o2 sensor.
I'm slow...
Just so I understand things better. If I delete it and not use the simulator (just unplugged) I'll get the same MPG as I would with the EGR Valve (new)? Of course the Check Engine Light would be on, but mine has been on since day one, which I'm obviously okay with.
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Old March 13th, 2011, 12:14 AM   #34
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No either way you'll still lose MPG. With it unplugged the computer knows that it is not functioning and goes to another set of fuel/spark tables, but in the end it still uses more fuel during part throttle and cruise. With it deleted and the EGR simulator there, it still thinks it's functioning and will use the EGR tables, but with the exhaust gas not present in the combustion chamber the combustion temps go up because you don't have exhaust gas filling up the space in the cylinder. So now you have more air than there should be in the cylinder, but the computer is spraying the less amount of fuel that it thinks it should because it thinks there's exhaust gas in the cylinder. The o2 sensors pick this up as a lean condition and tell the injectors to spray more fuel to correct the condition.
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Old March 13th, 2011, 12:16 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by fogged306 View Post
No either way you'll still lose MPG. With it unplugged the computer knows that it is not functioning and goes to another set of fuel/spark tables, but in the end it still uses more fuel during part throttle and cruise. With it deleted and the EGR simulator there, it still thinks it's functioning and will use the EGR tables, but with the exhaust gas not present in the combustion chamber the combustion temps go up because you don't have exhaust gas filling up the space in the cylinder. So now you have more air than there should be in the cylinder, but the computer is spraying the less amount of fuel that it thinks it should because it thinks there's exhaust gas in the cylinder. The o2 sensors pick this up as a lean condition and tell the injectors to spray more fuel to correct the condition.
I didn't even see your other post.
I'm still stuck on what I want to do. I hate being confused. haha
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Old March 13th, 2011, 12:25 AM   #36
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If you're not concerned that much with the mileage, it's really not an issue. Either way will work and you're not going to do any damage to the engine. But at these gas prices, if you get your mileage up from 9 to 15 and it costs you a couple hundred bucks, those repairs will pay for themselves in fuel savings pretty quickly.

Edit: I suppose I shouldn't say you won't do any damage to your engine, because running too rich can definitely do damage. I actually destroyed my cylinder walls and piston skirts because I was spraying way too much fuel and washing the cylinders. I was so rich that I had enough fuel get past my rings and into my oil that it thinned the oil enough that I smoked my rear main bearing. That's an extreme case, but it is an example of what could happen. Expensive lesson learned on why not to run your engine rich, lol.

Last edited by fogged306; March 13th, 2011 at 12:30 AM.
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Old March 13th, 2011, 12:29 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by fogged306 View Post
If you're not concerned that much with the mileage, it's really not an issue. Either way will work and you're not going to do any damage to the engine. But at these gas prices, if you get your mileage up from 9 to 15 and it costs you a couple hundred bucks, those repairs will pay for themselves in fuel savings pretty quickly.
How much would it go up roughly if I replace the EGR Valve?
Where would it be at if I just delete it?

At AutoZone it's like $100 with a Gasket, without my mechanics discount. I'm actually thinking of trying to clean it first.
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Old March 13th, 2011, 12:35 AM   #38
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I honestly couldn't answer that. It depends on a lot of things and you may have more issues than just a malfunctioning EGR. Hell, I just changed the gear oil in my front and rear axles of my truck and my mileage went up 2MPG. I never would have expected that, but it's tough to gauge stuff like that. It may go up only a couple mpg, it may go up 5-6 mpg. I don't know enough about these cars yet to really give you an accurate answer on that.
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Old March 13th, 2011, 12:42 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by fogged306 View Post
I honestly couldn't answer that. It depends on a lot of things and you may have more issues than just a malfunctioning EGR. Hell, I just changed the gear oil in my front and rear axles of my truck and my mileage went up 2MPG. I never would have expected that, but it's tough to gauge stuff like that. It may go up only a couple mpg, it may go up 5-6 mpg. I don't know enough about these cars yet to really give you an accurate answer on that.
EGR is the only thing that showed up on the scan we did (picture above).. This is a tough one, delete or replace. :/
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Old March 13th, 2011, 04:20 AM   #40
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just fix it.....Other then a cleaner look im not sure what the point is....And your thread seems to be about mpg...so fix it, but like fogged306 already stated you may have other issues. but as you fix each issue one at a time you mpg will go up..just my 2 cents
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