[zigbigadoru]

im gunna be swapping my 5.4 in the future and need to know which tubular kmember i should get? and from where?

[97S281]

Good question. I have no clue as to the answer.

[Jazzer The Cat]

I hear good things about MM

There are really two questions that need answering when going tube "K":
1. What are your long-term goals for suspension upgrades?
2. What is your budget?

These need to be determined as some "K"s are good for drags, some for twisties (I am a bit partial to twisties myself)


You need to decide if you want to go coil-over's or stay with standard springs. There is ZERO negative side to going CO's except cost. You will gain a much better wheel rate (see ***THIS*** post re: wheel rate). Many "K"s will not allow you to re-use your stock "A" arms and need to get some matching ones. They will generally not have spring perches, so this is why you need to address the CO question. To me, it is silly to get a new "K" and NOT get tube "A" arms as well. The stock ones are flexable and aftermarket ones will have some upgraded bushings for less play in suspension. I also think it is best to go CO at this point as you will benefit greatly from the options presented by going this route. You will also generally shed a few pounds up front and this can only help with the overall balance of your ride. I would not do this swap ONLY b/c of weight loss, but a side benifit to be sure.

Something to think about is the vulnerability of the oil pan as it WILL have some additional exposure to hazards from below. I installed a Canton Race pan and had it re-inforced with a steel plate and has some pretty good scars on it. Now, my car is VERY low and is due, in large part, to the geometry afforded by a well designed Griggs "K".

Look back a week or so for another thread on "K"s in the '99~'04 section, I believe and will find some additional info.

HTH

Jazzer

EDIT: Darn copyrights on my pics

[ReverendDexter]

[MustangMatt96GT]

Team Z

[zigbigadoru]

well if i had to pick one i would say twisties. granted i may take it to the track once in a while but it will stay on the street for the most part. i was actually already planning on switching to coilovers anyway. i did not however know you had to change the a-arms. expense really isnt TOO much of a problem because i can spread it out over the year as i fix up the 5.4

[Jazzer The Cat]

There are some geometry changes for the drag "K", but certainly will not negate the benifits of a twisty or street "K" on the track or quarter.

I think the drag design helps to transfer weight to the rear better while the other better optimizes the castor/camber settings and lowers COG

Jazzer

[ModMustang97GT]

The same K member should work. You will want to change to some solid engine mounts, but otherwise the dementions are the same for the 5.4 block. The difference beeing the deck height, the block is taller than the 4.6, but the width should be the same. MM is a great product, UPR is decent, not as strong as the MM piece though. And ofcourse there are other racing companies out there with more expensive, fancier set ups as well.

[zigbigadoru]

ok so what should i be getting then? mm tubular k-member, mm tubular a-arms, and coilovers? also solid motor mounts?

[NeverEnuff]

I don't like COs personally. it makes the ride harsh. Bushings are stiffer, caster camber plates make it more rough. Blah. (it will handle better tho)

I personally love PA Racing. Work with or without the stock control arm and don't change the geometry of the front end at all.

I have coil overs now and am going back to conventional springs and struts. I like my ride quiet and not jaw breaking...

[zigbigadoru]

well i am going with coilovers in the front and staying springs and struts in the back.

[Mach Boy]

You'll need the K, A arms, and coil overs. Caster camber plates are also needed. And depending on the spring rate of the coil overs you might need new struts.

[zigbigadoru]

ok can you guys kind of guide me with coilovers. i am new to that thing and am not entirely sure about spring rate and what not. i can just order mm tubular k-member and tubular a-arms right?

[Jazzer The Cat]

Originally Posted by NeverEnuff I don't like COs personally. it makes the ride harsh. Bushings are stiffer, caster camber plates make it more rough. Blah. (it will handle better tho) I personally love PA Racing. Work with or without the stock control arm and don't change the geometry of the front end at all. I have coil overs now and am going back to conventional springs and struts. I like my ride quiet and not jaw breaking...

You have got too heavy a set of springs or something, because this does not make sense

The wheel rate of CO's is MUCH better than stock placement, so you need to get the correct springs to possibly solve your issue. You may, in addition or instead, have overly aggressive/stiff shocks. CC plates are also not to blame, as they will not cause any harshness either, but maybe some NV, but not H. Furthermore, the existing "K" has several geometry issues that are best corrected by a good tube "K" and will let ***GRIGGS RACING*** describe the upside to a good one.

My car is nearly 100% suspended on spherical joints (I have 3 non-spherical and they are poly) and my ride is not harsh at all (relatively speaking, as it is not a Cadillac ). Now I have LOTS of NV, but not H, so running a VERY tight ship that rides BETTER than the Saleen suspension day I bought it.

I recommend you confirm the springs/shocks on your ride and contact MM to help you address the issues. You should have a BETTER handling ride that is more comfortable as well.

Jazzer

[Mach Boy]

Originally Posted by zigbigadoru ok can you guys kind of guide me with coilovers. i am new to that thing and am not entirely sure about spring rate and what not. i can just order mm tubular k-member and tubular a-arms right?

I haven't seen their A-arms. If they have a perch for the spring then you are good to go without COs. If they don't then you need to purchase COs and C/C plates.

Your best bet is to contact MM and tell them what you want to do with the car. They can provide you with the necessary information to make sure you have the ride quality you want. Whether that be bad, for the strip, or good, for the street. The higher the spring rate, the better the quality, and the better chance you will need new struts to go with your CO package.

And IMO, if you're going to do this, don't half ass it. If you need to save more money to do it right and the way you want, then take the time and do it right the first time.

[Jazzer The Cat]

Originally Posted by Mach Boy "...Your best bet is to contact MM and tell them what you want to do with the car. They can provide you with the necessary information to make sure you have the ride quality you want. Whether that be bad, for the strip, or good, for the street. The higher the spring rate, the better the quality, and the better chance you will need new struts to go with your CO package. And IMO, if you're going to do this, don't half ass it. If you need to save more money to do it right and the way you want, then take the time and do it right the first time.

Couldn't agree more

Jazzer

[NeverEnuff]

Originally Posted by Jazzer The Cat You have got too heavy a set of springs or something, because this does not make sense The wheel rate of CO's is MUCH better than stock placement, so you need to get the correct springs to possibly solve your issue. You may, in addition or instead, have overly aggressive/stiff shocks. CC plates are also not to blame, as they will not cause any harshness either, but maybe some NV, but not H. Furthermore, the existing "K" has several geometry issues that are best corrected by a good tube "K" and will let ***GRIGGS RACING*** describe the upside to a good one. My car is nearly 100% suspended on spherical joints (I have 3 non-spherical and they are poly) and my ride is not harsh at all (relatively speaking, as it is not a Cadillac ). Now I have LOTS of NV, but not H, so running a VERY tight ship that rides BETTER than the Saleen suspension day I bought it. I recommend you confirm the springs/shocks on your ride and contact MM to help you address the issues. You should have a BETTER handling ride that is more comfortable as well. Jazzer

Well...this isn't the first time I have ever done suspension. The reason I know is cause well...I know. It is all about the components you use.

First. You say caster camber plates don't create harshness???!!! Have u ever just done caster camber plates as NO other mods? I have, and I'm here to tell you when you remove the factory rubber isolator at the top of the strut, it causes a more harsh ride...period. Does it help with handling...yes.

Second. I had identical suspension, only differences being caster camber plates and energy suspension control arm bushigs. The rides were completly different, the modded one devoloped squeaks, rattles and cluncks before the non-modded one. It was absolutly a different/stiffer ride. And to back that up my buddy put JUST CC plates on his stock 04 GT ad it rode 10 times more harse than my car with just springs. Struts were stock on both cars and we even upgraded to aftermarket nice ones...no help.

Third. I have soft drag springs on my coil over setup...hense it should be a soft ride...but it sure as fuck isn't. I had steeds sport springs before that and it rode 200% better.

Lastly. I don't know you, you don't know me. So don't assume. I know my shit and what I am doing. No matter what you do, front or rear suspension...if you put stiffer/better aftermarket parts in, ur ride quality/softness will suffer, it's simple...if you remove rubber complety and/or replace it, it will handle better cause of less flex, but the less flex/movement in the suspension you have, the more the cars dash and interior takes it up.... I'm not 19-20 years old anymore, I like a nice ride.

Thanks

Matt

[Jazzer The Cat]

Hey, Matt

We are mostly talking semantics here. We just have a difference of opinion on what is "harsh" and what is noise and vibration. That is cool

If you want your car to ride as soft as possible, just keep it stock. If you want it to handle better, some sacrifices in comfort need to be made. Everyone here who asks a question on how to make a car handle better and I make a recommendation, I also let him/her know the consequences of such an action. I have talked as many people out of a mod, as into one.

Jazzer

[NeverEnuff]

Word. I understand.

I just don't think CO are better and are the end all and neccesary if you get a tubular K.

Thats all.

[memory97gt]

Ask 330cube he would probably be able to chime in and give some heads up on what he did