[nes]

Originally Posted by Boomer You can continue to believe the general consensus, I am a complete idiot and have spent thousands of hours studying water and air flow dynamics. I guess your proof is word of mouth..... whatever... just keep reading your magazine articles.....

actually i dont read magazine articles, i look at track times, dyno numbers and graphs. it doesnt interest me much at all that one head will flow better with a cam with a lift over .500 (im not gunna use that much cam and most others wont either so what good is it) u can keep goin on about how much better the npis are then pis but in the end on the streets and at the track(where it matters, dyno queens shouldnt get praise) the pis tend to win, realistic mod for realistic mod

[acmillr]

Originally Posted by nes it doesnt interest me much at all that one head will flow better with a cam with a lift over .500

Actually, a standard aftermarket cam generally runs about .550" of lift.

[tlr96]

Originally Posted by nes Originally Posted by MustangMatt96GT No NPI heads are better for boosted applications! Especally when they are ported and polished! Sure your PI makes more right now N/A, but the NPI heads would have made more if and when you put FI on it!! not true at all, its true npi heads have the potential to flow better then pi's but in actuality pis will always be surperior. line a pi gt with a npi gt (with cams and intake) in stock trim car vs car the pi gt will come out on top (with equal drivers) u dont see npi cars with just cams and intake touching 13s (they will be lucky to go 14.20s) and the aftermarket for the pi cars vs npi is not even comparable what so ever. u wanna go forced induction, use the gaskets for the pi swap that is suited to keep compression lower( i forgot where to get them and what exactly they are called) and another thing you dont see npi cars pushing 400+ numbers near as often u see pi cars (its a waste keeping the sh!tty nonpi heads when you are making power numbers that high, u rarly see npi cars over 350 rwhp with full boltons and boost) anyway i could go on and on about how much better the pi heads are then nonpis...

not to jump in but... all you've posted so far is your opinion and no proof. i'm curious about your comparison of "line a pi gt with a npi gt (with cams and intake) in stock trim car vs car the pi gt will come out on top" do you mean a two 96-98s one npi and one with pi swap or do you mean a 96-98 vs 99+. anyways boomers right, but its america and people are entitled to have opinions.

[acmillr]

I'm interested in something. What would it take (intake wise) to bolt a set of SVO heads on a motor that is already set up as a PI engine?

[Casper98GT]

this thread is funny. I read somewhere "Why do people put PI on then"

I give up. Its not worth the fight on here anymore. lol.

They bolt on PI because you gain 5-10 rwhp from them. STOCK Thats it. You cant sit here and say PI are better than Npi. Thats like saying some guy who weighs 200lbs cant put up more weight than a guy who weighs 170. If you give the 170 lb er some steroids then he will put up more weight. Doesnt mean the 170'er is useless.

Stock for stock the PI are better. thats the entire reason they made them. Performance improved. But they are NOt a MUCH BETTER head. When modified the Npi REALLY shine....thats exactly what the SVO heads did.

As for putting the SVO heads on a PI engine....all you need to do is go reverse PI swap. BUt it would be wise to run the updated NPi intake on top. Or you could use adapter plates to run a PI intake...or silicone idea.

[Casper98GT]

ACMILLR....Great idea too. Because then if you ran that on a PI engine you could show the increase in power from PI to Npi heads. Which would be strange.

[acmillr]

Originally Posted by Casper98GT this thread is funny. I read somewhere "Why do people put PI on then" I give up. Its not worth the fight on here anymore. lol. They bolt on PI because you gain 5-10 rwhp from them. STOCK Thats it. You cant sit here and say PI are better than Npi. Thats like saying some guy who weighs 200lbs cant put up more weight than a guy who weighs 170. If you give the 170 lb er some steroids then he will put up more weight. Doesnt mean the 170'er is useless. Stock for stock the PI are better. thats the entire reason they made them. Performance improved. But they are NOt a MUCH BETTER head. When modified the Npi REALLY shine....thats exactly what the SVO heads did. As for putting the SVO heads on a PI engine....all you need to do is go reverse PI swap. BUt it would be wise to run the updated NPi intake on top. Or you could use adapter plates to run a PI intake...or silicone idea.

Clear me up here- I'm not up on NPI intakes. What is an "updated NPI intake"?

[acmillr]

One more thing. Would I be able to retain my coil on plugs?

[G.T. Rags]

does anyone know where i can get a set of pi cams?

[acmillr]

Originally Posted by 96GTRagTop does anyone know where i can get a set of pi cams?

Out of a PI motor........ DUH................

[G.T. Rags]

thats not what i meant and i guess i should have been a lil bit more specific. Casper said he was going to help me out, but thnx though

[acmillr]

If I were you, I would skip the PI BS and just get some comp, VT, or Crower cams. The PI motor is not very strong (HP wise).

[G.T. Rags]

I understand that, but this car is my daily driver and i'm not looking to dump major money into her. I was at first but the more and more I think about it the more i realize I don't want to drive around in a 500hp car. I'm hopping to get about 260 to the wheels without changing the heads. I'm pretty confident with a good tune, PI intake, Cams, plen,tb, CAI, pulleys, a good tune up, nice chip and good dyno tune would put me there. I eventually want to put heads in, but not until the rebuild. By then I'll have a normal car and won't give 3 $hits.

[acmillr]

Good luck. I personally feel that 310HP is extremely streetable.

[G.T. Rags]

it is completely streetable, I'm not saying it isn't, but for the money and for the length of time i plan on keep ing the car, cheap pi is the direction i want until i can afford to dropp some serious cash.

[MustangMatt96GT]

hey acmillr the updated NPI is the NPI intake with a aluminum crossover! I got a quick question! What would the SVO heads compare to the stage 2 VTs? Thanks guys!

[ujslost]

matt wtf you been man?

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Casper98GT Stock for stock the PI are better. thats the entire reason they made them. Performance improved. But they are NOt a MUCH BETTER head. When modified the Npi REALLY shine....thats exactly what the SVO heads did.

Casper you are a great guy and you know your shit. I just want to clarify P.I heads are better with the npi pistons due to the raised compression. Again, if I had the money and really thought i had to prove it I would build a 10.4:1 Npi headed motor and you would see how minimal the difference is.
The engineer I worked on a job with a while back told me ford changed the head design only to correct the poor intake runner design. The engineers ran short on time and had two options, the other design was far worse than the P.I that they used.

Anyhow we are beating a dead horse, believe what you want. I will continue to port all modular heads and find ways to make them all better. People need to get over the "stage X" thing and realize a head can be ported for a specific application, for a certain power band and or any type of F.I. or even nitrous.
Ask a Prostock or Nascar engine builder what stage their heads are ported to, you'll get laughed at. Every combination requires a certain touch to make the power where it is needed.

Thanks,
Boomer

[nes]

Originally Posted by Boomer Originally Posted by Casper98GT Stock for stock the PI are better. thats the entire reason they made them. Performance improved. But they are NOt a MUCH BETTER head. When modified the Npi REALLY shine....thats exactly what the SVO heads did.

and casper, thats all im saying, in stock trim the pi car will come out on top, i did say that npi heads have the potential to flow better though (which is fact im not dogging on them by any means) i just feel the pis are the way to go for a strong street/strip setup

[Casper98GT]

and casper, thats all im saying, in stock trim the pi car will come out on top, i did say that npi heads have the potential to flow better though (which is fact im not dogging on them by any means) i just feel the pis are the way to go for a strong street/strip setup

totally stock upgrading to all 3 pi pieces...youre arecorrect. PIs are better than Npi without any work.