[4point6GT]

ok so if i want to do the pi swap i can approximatley get 350hp tops, and since compression is high it wouldnt be good to add a blower ? did i get that right ?
if I go for the PI motor swap I will get bout same power but be able to add blower ? which is most likely what im gonna shot for . I will be readin much more as I have learned so much, thanks to you guys. If I misunderstood you please let me know.


.........shootin for 400+ HP, and blower is a must.<------my plan.

[Drgnracin72]

well good luck getting 350 out of it n/a it wont happen evern with every bolt on. you can add boost with the pi swap but gotta keep it low and its a good idea to go interooled.

[4point6GT]

Originally Posted by drgnracin72 well good luck getting 350 out of it n/a it wont happen evern with every bolt on. you can add boost with the pi swap but gotta keep it low and its a good idea to go interooled.

ok you guys r confusin me, some of yous say. go pi swap but u cant add blower, some say yes add blower but keep C/R low. How much does a pi motor go for ? (02-04) Will I get more HP outta workin with a pi motor than doin the pi swap on my npi motor ?????????????

[DragonFreak]

you can find a good used pi motor for around 2k which is bout what its gonna cost to get the heads cams and intake plus all parts needed

[4point6GT]

Originally Posted by DragonFreak you can find a good used pi motor for around 2k which is bout what its gonna cost to get the heads cams and intake plus all parts needed

So if it costs about the same maybe a lil more, I say going for the PI motor SWAP is BETTER ! why ? well because I will have a newer engine with less MILES, and I Can definatley add a blower later on with no worries. gimme some feedback please especially if you think i should go for the PI SWAP instead of for the PI MOTOR SWAP. My 98 currently has 82,000k on the spot!

[Fryrice]

Originally Posted by 4point6GT Originally Posted by drgnracin72 well good luck getting 350 out of it n/a it wont happen evern with every bolt on. you can add boost with the pi swap but gotta keep it low and its a good idea to go interooled. ok you guys r confusin me, some of yous say. go pi swap but u cant add blower, some say yes add blower but keep C/R low. How much does a pi motor go for ? (02-04) Will I get more HP outta workin with a pi motor than doin the pi swap on my npi motor ?????????????

First off,ignore anyone who tells you that you NEED to do the entire motor swap. Thats just horrible advice .

82,000 miles on your block is nothing. And the internals like ,pistons,rods,crankshaft etc.are what you need to worry about when adding a blower .not the block.

The only reason you would need to do an ENTIRE swap is if your motor has 300,000 miles on it ,its cracked or there are compression problems with the block.And no,thats not the same kinda compression as C/R .

The only difference between your motor and a PI motor is the heads/cams/intake. Ford changed to higer flowing heads/cams/intake for the 99 -2004 model years .But the rest is exactly what you have under your hood.The actual block and everything else is the same.

Your car is a 2V. The PI cars are 2V.
Your car has a plastic intake .The PI cars have a plastic intake.
Your car has 1 camshaft per cylinder head.So do the PI cars.

NPI heads dont flow as good as PI heads among other things.
NPI intake doesnt flow as good a the PI intake .
NPI cams are not as aggressive PI cams. PI cams have higher lift and duration.

Those are the differences.

So dont even think about C/R when trying to decide between a entire motor swap or just the heads/cams/intake.

Its like having a black pair of tennis shoes ,and changing the lace's from white to black .You keep the same shoe,only the lace's change,lol. Make sense ?

You can get the exact same power numbers with a entire motor swap or just the heads/cams/intake by themselves.

As said before,its difficult to get 350hp outta these modular motors N/A .It can be done,but would require tons of tuning,and squeezing every last drop of HP outta each part, which requires outside help from shops.

As far as a blower,you can add one to a head/cam/intake swap ,and your compression will be fine with a tune .The only drawback is that the factory internals are not good for over 400hp safely . With low boost,you would be fine.

You still havent mentioned what kinda numbers you want,and thats the most important thing you need to consider.

[Fryrice]

Originally Posted by DragonFreak you can find a good used pi motor for around 2k which is bout what its gonna cost to get the heads cams and intake plus all parts needed

Bro,that is so not true .

Used PI heads with cams from a private seller -$300 OR LESS
Brand/used PI intake with aluminum cross over is $150 OR LESS.

Head changing kit - $100-110
Intake gaskets - around $15 each (2)

Thats about $580 . How the hell is that anywhere near $2000 ?
You can take that money saved,and buy better cams or have the heads worked or save for the blower etc.

Besides,there are many PI motors out there for less than $1000.

[DragonFreak]

actually if you just do the swap your compression is NOT going to be blower friendly,put anything thats gonna force more air in and your asking for trouble! the compression for blowers should not be over 9.5:1 MAX. the pi head swap will raise it to over 10:1. again it is really up to you i personally am swapping the motor not just the heads besides staying at a blower friendly compression its knocking off alot of miles my 97 has less than 80k but if things work out im getting the motor and trans for an unbeatable deal. you can find a low milage pi motor from junk yards for like 1.5-2k as i said thats gonna be about the same as all the parts needed for the head swap alone. besides i dont know where you are but where i am to have the heads changed at a shop here is bout $1200. i have done alot of talking to ppl and alot of them only deal with 4.6 and they have said they have done the swap and would never go back to a non pi motor. ask some shops and read is what i would do and have done

[4point6GT]

Yea makes sense to not go for entire engine when i just need the PI swap, which will save me alot. Im going for that pi swap kit at parkway performance, used parts might be cheaper but i want best for my car n thats new, atleast for this pi swap.

and im not lookin to build a N/A beast but I will try to squeeze every hp drop outta every mod n part b4 gettin my blower.

when i do decide on my blower i will upgrade my internals so that they can handle 400+ hp. Numbers I am lookin for is 300+ N/A and when i get my blower 400+. One last thing, when is the right time to have all my parts ported ?

[4point6GT]

Originally Posted by DragonFreak actually if you just do the swap your compression is NOT going to be blower friendly,put anything thats gonna force more air in and your asking for trouble! the compression for blowers should not be over 9.5:1 MAX. the pi head swap will raise it to over 10:1. again it is really up to you i personally am swapping the motor not just the heads besides staying at a blower friendly compression its knocking off alot of miles my 97 has less than 80k but if things work out im getting the motor and trans for an unbeatable deal. you can find a low milage pi motor from junk yards for like 1.5-2k as i said thats gonna be about the same as all the parts needed for the head swap alone. besides i dont know where you are but where i am to have the heads changed at a shop here is bout $1200. i have done alot of talking to ppl and alot of them only deal with 4.6 and they have said they have done the swap and would never go back to a non pi motor. ask some shops and read is what i would do and have done

I dont kno if ur blind but under my avatar is says COLORADO in caps, lol. anyways If your jus gonna get a pi motor cause of the mileage u shouldnt, I understand the being blower friendly part but I am sure I can still manage so shove one of them and be safe as long as I have upgraded internals. thanx 4 the info tho, and I kno a couple mechs over here, includin 2-3 in my family, im sure they will cut me a deal when workin on my car.

[Fryrice]

Originally Posted by DragonFreak actually if you just do the swap your compression is NOT going to be blower friendly,put anything thats gonna force more air in and your asking for trouble! the compression for blowers should not be over 9.5:1 MAX. the pi head swap will raise it to over 10:1. again it is really up to you i personally am swapping the motor not just the heads besides staying at a blower friendly compression its knocking off alot of miles my 97 has less than 80k but if things work out im getting the motor and trans for an unbeatable deal. you can find a low milage pi motor from junk yards for like 1.5-2k as i said thats gonna be about the same as all the parts needed for the head swap alone. besides i dont know where you are but where i am to have the heads changed at a shop here is bout $1200. i have done alot of talking to ppl and alot of them only deal with 4.6 and they have said they have done the swap and would never go back to a non pi motor. ask some shops and read is what i would do and have done

I edited that ,so I didnt sound like a dick. But yeah,I wanna hear it

[4point6GT]

Originally Posted by Fryrice Originally Posted by DragonFreak actually if you just do the swap your compression is NOT going to be blower friendly,put anything thats gonna force more air in and your asking for trouble! the compression for blowers should not be over 9.5:1 MAX. the pi head swap will raise it to over 10:1. again it is really up to you i personally am swapping the motor not just the heads besides staying at a blower friendly compression its knocking off alot of miles my 97 has less than 80k but if things work out im getting the motor and trans for an unbeatable deal. you can find a low milage pi motor from junk yards for like 1.5-2k as i said thats gonna be about the same as all the parts needed for the head swap alone. besides i dont know where you are but where i am to have the heads changed at a shop here is bout $1200. i have done alot of talking to ppl and alot of them only deal with 4.6 and they have said they have done the swap and would never go back to a non pi motor. ask some shops and read is what i would do and have done Unreal. Explain to me how buying the entire motor gives you a lower compression ratio than just doing the head swap. Because form what your saying, anyone with PI heads cannot use a supercharger. I gotta hear this.

same here give it to us

[Fryrice]

Well,I dont wanna get inot a pissing contest .
And I know about pistons

4point6GT,bottom line is this...

If you wanna get an entire motor,then do so. But you will end up spending a lot more money for 260hp than you need to. And thats just a fact. Not opinion,just plain ol mathematics .

If you think your onna want a S/C in the future,then do the build the right way .Cuz yes your stock internals can handle some low boost ,but it only takes some bad tuning or overloading the pistons to cause disaster . And if you shoot a rod through the oil pan,then its game over.,thats it,game over.

The right tune is what you gotta have also,and that will handle C/R issues .

If you wanna stay N/A for a while then you might be interested in a post I did not to long ago,that got some nice positive feedback .Link is below.


http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...es-vt6758.html

[4point6GT]

Originally Posted by Fryrice Well,I dont wanna get inot a pissing contest . 4point6GT,bottom line is this... If you wanna get an entire motor,then do so. But you will end up spending a lot more money for 260hp than you need to. And thats just a fact. Not opinion,just plain ol mathematics . If you think your onna want a S/C in the future,then do the build the right way .Cuz yes your stock internals can handle some low boost ,but it only takes some bad tuning or overloading the pistons to cause disaster . And if you shoot a rod through the oil pan,then its game over.,thats it,game over. The right tune is what you gotta have also,and that will handle C/R issues . If you wanna stay N/A for a while then you might be interested in a post I did not to long ago,that got some nice positive feedback .Link is below. http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...es-vt6758.html

hey thanx man that was great, no i aint gettin the whole PI engine, I got everything a PI engine gots just need the PI SWAP remember ? i thought u knew that . Yea I will be N/A for a while until I cant get squeeze anymore HP but b4 I think about a S/C im gonna upgrade all my stock internals I aint gonna risk Blowin my engine or something stupid and more Important I will get the right tune. Jus got one question where can I find or pick and know its the right tune ? thanx 4 the knowledge, APPRECIATED

[Drgnracin72]

explain o me how a tune is going to cure your too high of compression ratio? the only way to change that is with pistons and head work. you can stick a little bit of boost on a pi swap motor but you def need intercooled and low boost. optimised for boost, a compression shuoild be around 8.0:1-9.5:1

[ChrisJ]

You can also lower the compression ratio a tad with different head gaskets...But not enough to make a PI engine a boost monster...

[Casper98GT]

This thread turned into a "I think i know" and im staying out of it.. Sorry

But i do wanna say one thing...

Unreal. Explain to me how buying the entire motor gives you a lower compression ratio than just doing the head swap. Because form what your saying, anyone with PI heads cannot use a supercharger. I gotta hear this

.

Explain to you how buying the motor gives you lower compression than doing the swap............. Ok. The pistons are diff and when putting on PI heads, you RAISE the compression ratio. UNDERSTAND YET? Stock PI motor DOESNT have 10.5:1 compression because of this. So Stock PI motor gives you im not saying any derff. number because i dont know the exact ratio on a Stock PI motor off the top of my head, but im sure someone can tell you. use youre stock NPI block and put PI kit on it youre going to have higher compression.

And yes youre right on one thing...Yes you can use a s/c with a swapped PI kit.... BUT youre risking alot.

I hope between Me, Drgnracing and Chris letting you know about compression, helps you understand....Or as you wanted... we explained how it works.

[ChrisJ]

The 99-04 PI Motors compression ratio is 9.1/9.5-1...
With the PI heads you will bump it up to 10.5-1...Or maybe even higher...

If you boost a PI swapped motor you are running on barrowed time if you try and bump the boost up...

Most people with NPI motors that want to boost the stock motor either boost it with the stock heads or they will take their NPI heads off and have them worked...Then bam its all good...The worked NPI head can put out the same power the pi swap would give you...

Or you could just do the best thing I think and save up for a built shortblock...Buy some aftermarket heads...Get the compression ratio around 8.5-1...Get a set of blower cams...And go town...

Personally I would not boost a PI swapped 96-98 unless you have a back-up motor becuase it is not going to take much boost with that high of a compression ratio...Like I said you could lower it alittle bit with head gaskets but not the number where I would say it was safe to boost the $hit out of it...

But thats just me...

[Casper98GT]

+1

I personally dont care which route you take... youre the only person who can decide that aspect. Just like i said before... learn all youre options.

Good luck and make sure you let us know how it goes.

[4point6GT]

Originally Posted by Casper98GT +1 I personally dont care which route you take... youre the only person who can decide that aspect. Just like i said before... learn all youre options. Good luck and make sure you let us know how it goes.

+2 right here.......about time i get some more feedback. So If I wanna boost, How much more can I and how safe is it with a PI motor swap than just the PI swap on my npi block ??????? I dont wanna take any risks, so its either PI motor swap or a smallblock for me......still listening for more suggestions and help from you guys tho.