[casper gt]

Originally Posted by quiksilver225 Ok. But just to clarify that idiot was completely wrong in saying I'd top out at 90, right?...

I say yes both to him being wrong & being an idiot. if your going more for the strip though, I'd forget about 140 mph on the street as well.

[r3dn3ck]

Originally Posted by SGTPinder Piston Speed, I may be stepping in some crap, but i was just reading another 5.4 swap'ish thread, the same one you, quicksilver225, were commenting on, what is the deal with Piston Speed and 5.4 to 4.6, Someone had said the 5.4 pistons move faster therefor that causes them to lose power? I havent heard this until now, can someone shed a little light on this?

at 6000rpm the 5.4 has the same piston speed as a 4.6 at 7000rpm. So, you don't want to spin the 5.4 2v above 6000rpm because it's pointless (and it makes ludicrous power from 1000-6000 so why bother, just gear higher). You can in fact spin a 5.4 to ungodly high rpm but without heavily ported 4v or TFS heads it's a waste. Al Papito routinely spins his 4v 5.5L at 8100rpm. His heads flow well enough to do that. You should consider 6000rpm to be a redline because there's zero point in spinning beyond that in a 2v. If you do 4v, then make your redline 7500.

Originally Posted by quiksilver225 just another typical 5.4 swap hater. yes, the 5.4 does have a greater piston speed. because of the longer stroke the 5.4 doesnt want to rev as high. but these thing are torque monsters. without 4 valve heads the 4.6 does not make as much power. call any shop who has had a 5.4 mustang on the dyno. they will tell you the same thing. the 5.4 is gonna make better power every time compared to a 4.6 with the same heads. the haters claim that we have no proof of performance, but they have no real reasons against the swap! they lack information.

Bingo! 100%. My 5.4 does rev just like my 4.6 did but it's got an intake and cams that are intended to work at those RPM levels. Stock cams are t3h l0s3!

Originally Posted by BakerFX4 Im going to do this with my 5.4 block. Keep everything else on the car the exact same and just swap out the shortblock. Of course, adapter plates and the exhaust will be different but im just going to bolt my 4.6 2v heads on it. So far, if i understand correctly, these are the things needed for the shortblock swap....

factory headers off of a mustang (grind off the bump on the passenger side where it taps the frame rail), or FRPP or JBA shorty headers. I prefer JBA. My FRPP's were kinda cr4p.

adapter plates for intake (PLEASE use the HPS 5.4 intake someday!, you'll be probably 30-40hp up over a PI intake with your blower in the mix)

2v timing cover

New blower bracket or not for my procharger) Yes. May be able to modify your existing bracket. Not going to be a big deal unless you make it one. Remember, it's just a bigazz aluminum plate and some standoffs.

timing chains, guides, arms (tensioners transfer), front cover gasket for 5.4

Originally Posted by quiksilver225 terry told me today that there wont be a need to drop the k member. he said he had a 4V in his car and the brakes were not an issue for him. anyone else have any info on this?

Use poly urethane motor mounts with a 4v and it won't matter much but using the drop plates from Maximum Motorsports will make your life easier with regards to general clearance to everything and with hood clearance depending on the intake. With 2v there's no need to drop the k. You can put the engine in from the top if you use a cherry picker with a load leveler.

Originally Posted by quiksilver225 just talked to another local guy, Cannon from Speed Nation, who has done a 5.4 2V swap. he said a few thing which seem a bit iffy. he said that a tubular k-member should give me more space and eliminate any need to lower the k member. he also said that my 4.10s wont work out at all. he said that the car they did had 4.10s and fell on its face at 90mph. however that car had the stock truck intake and cams. my car as it sits makes it to 140mph. why would a motor swap eccect that much at all???

Tubular K is nice but not necessary at ALL! Makes better header clearance. The stock truck intake and cams make the motor peak power at 3500rpm. Fuggin duh it's done at 90, the engine didn't want to rev above that because the cams and intake wouldn't let it breathe. If you use a proper car intake and better than stock cams you'll pull pretty hard to 5000rpm or better. I've personally had mine to 148 with the 5.4 and 3.55's and it was still pulling hard. 4.10's are a traction nightmare though. I like 3.55's for street and 3.73 for the track if you use slicks or DR's, otherwise stick with 3.27 or 3.55. That's half the reason for the swap is to make a numerically lower gear ratio a useful thing. The idiot that uses a truck intake and cams and then puts on gears intended for much wilder cams and intake combos and expects different results than he got is not just dumb, but crazy too.

Originally Posted by casper gt you said the key word at the begining "Speed Nation" how well would you expect a mustang to run coming out of a ricer shop? but IMO 4.10's with a stick & 5.4 swap is most likely a no-no. stock truck intake & cam's shows you pretty much what they know, I'm suprised it held together till then.

Ditto that man. Thank god casper is watching this forum more than me. He's got the head firmly attached to the shoulders. Thanks!

Originally Posted by casper gt 2v I'd say no 4.10's unless you go with 28" rear tire's. 4v I'd say try & find out how they like to rev, (not a gt-500 for example but a shop built 4v). I'd say make it easy on your self & set a reasonable/acheavable goal as to how fast you want to go & what your willing to give up to get there & work back ward's from there (ie. I wanna go 10.0's what do I need to get there?).

Great advice! Working from the goal is the only way to have a car that meets that goal. Otherwise it's all up to chance. I wanted 3rd gear traction problems... got em!

Mine revs really nicely, especially with hotter cams than stock (I use xe270's but recommend something with a shorter LSA like cushman stage 2's or hitech stage 2's).

Originally Posted by casper gt no, you can fix traction. it's that I'd be unshure of spinning a 5.4 like I would a 4.6.

a stock bottom end 5.4 should not be treated like a stock bottom 4.6. The rods will give up the ghost pretty easy if you whip on it like a rented mule. Any power adder will increase that risk. Adding 300 bucks worth of forged rods and a couple hundred in H-series main and rod bearings basically solves that problem and you can rev the piss out of it without much worry. Stock rods were designed for lower RPM operation and their extreme length yeilds large side loading. This is not to say a stock bottom 5.4 wont' last a long time in a stang, it will if you treat it right and keep the RPM's under 6000. The upside of the mustang application is the weight of the car is so much lower than the engine was designed to move that it does it with authority even in stock trim.

Originally Posted by quiksilver225 Ok. But just to clarify that idiot was completely wrong in saying I'd top out at 90, right?...

100% wrong, 200% idiot. I personally know of 2 cars with BONE stock 5.4's that have passed 150MPH on the street and they both exceeded 108mph in the 1/4mile.

Originally Posted by casper gt I say yes both to him being wrong & being an idiot. if your going more for the strip though, I'd forget about 140 mph on the street as well.

If you're building as a strip car, then use 3.73's so you don't have to be pulling 6500rpm when you cross the stripe. 4.10's probably not the best but with some suspension work for better traction it'll be a neck snapping launch and a probable shift to 5th gear just before the traps.

[quiksilver225]

so is lowering the k member just something done for ease of installation? or is it absolutely nessecary? im not big on the idea because i dont wanna screw up the geometry of the whole front end. i feel like if i do that then im getting into a whole other world of mods ill have to make to compensate.

as far as the gears go exactly how bad will my 4.10s be??? i have a descent amount of suspension work, not nessecarily for drag applications, but it does help. i have nothing against losing the sway bar to help and i have pretty good street tires... id just like to come up w/ a different sollution rather than gearing down. basically, i wanna go as fast as possible and if theres a good idea to lessen the traction issues other than the typical things(tires, springs, etc) im all ears...

[casper gt]

tire's, spring's, shock's & control arm's are the biggest part of traction (along with stiffening the chassis/body) if your really planning on the kinda power you seem to be, you'll need to adress all those areas very agressively, sorry.

[casper gt]

Ditto that man. Thank god casper is watching this forum more than me. He's got the head firmly attached to the shoulders. Thanks!

thank's for the complement ! but I've just got your back, your the 5.4 guru, IMO.

[quiksilver225]

soooo... is this thing gonna fit?.... or..... no?... (stock k-member, of course)

[330CubeGt]

Anything fits Anything...And Yea with a stock crossmember...

If you spent as much time working on the car as you spent here asking questions you could have had it in already.

[quiksilver225]

Originally Posted by 330CubeGt Anything fits Anything...And Yea with a stock crossmember... If you spent as much time working on the car as you spent here asking questions you could have had it in already.

lol. true, true. but, i dont have money to waste on guesses and mistakes, so im not buying shit till i feel that i know more than i need to know and that i know exactly what parts i need and how to get them the cheapest without sacrificing performance. thats a pretty tricky thing to do, especially with as many changes to the original as ive made...

im getting mixed reviews on this k member business. some say i need to lower it, some say i dont. i really need to find someone who has done the 4V swap. if i could get a hold of al papito somehow that'd be just fan-fucking-tastic!

[330CubeGt]

Originally Posted by quiksilver225 lol. true, true. but, i dont have money to waste on guesses and mistakes, so im not buying shit till i feel that i know more than i need to know and that i know exactly what parts i need and how to get them the cheapest without sacrificing performance. thats a pretty tricky thing to do, especially with as many changes to the original as ive made... im getting mixed reviews on this k member business. some say i need to lower it, some say i dont. i really need to find someone who has done the 4V swap. if i could get a hold of al papito somehow that'd be just fan-fucking-tastic!

Here is a 4.6 DOHC In a SN95.
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/1549...ine_pics_1.jpg

Now Picture that with Around 1 inch more Dech hight and Around 1.5 inches wider...

[quiksilver225]

Originally Posted by 330CubeGt Here is a 4.6 DOHC In a SN95. http://www.mustangmods.com/data/1549...ine_pics_1.jpg Now Picture that with Around 1 inch more Dech hight and Around 1.5 inches wider...

looks cramped, lol. im concerned with the brakes. they look damn close to the valve covers in that picture.

[r3dn3ck]

it'll fit just fine. If you're going 4v then buy the Maximum Motorsports spacers and be happy that I got them to make them a production item. I worked for 3 years to get those made and when Chuck Schwynoch (MM owner) and I finally got all the details worked out we decided on a part set that would NOT mess with your front end geometry enough to matter while still giving enough drop to help underhood clearance. If you go beyond 1/2" you will definitely need to mess with other things but if you use the 1/2" spacer then you're going to be set up EXACTLY like the 2000 cobra R' as far as engine clearance and that was a great fit. If you go over to MB and JUST POST UP in my big thread you'll find that we have 2 guys with 4v swaps who are ready and willing to be helpful.

As for 4.10's... keep in mind that you can get yourself in a lot of trouble and throttle control is of paramount importance and you'll do just fine with them on the street. On the drag strip, you need drag radials and some well selected rear suspension upgrades to help control the wheel spin and you'll almost certainly be near red line as you cross the stripe but that'll work too. If you use 4.10's on street tires on the strip, you'll make nice 15 second passes and cross the stripe doing 108.

[BrotherB]

Wow, well I've just spent the past 2 hours reading 12 pages of all of this... intense. I'm in a decision pickle too..lean motor killed the spark plugs, so when one of the spark plug tips fell inside, I started looking at a 5.4 or Mach swap. Great info on here guys. I just wish my Bassani mid-length would fit the 5.4...

[quiksilver225]

just posted over at MB, feel like that was WAY over due...

[quiksilver225]

whats that website with all the salvage yard inventory again??? i dunno who posted it...

[acmillr]

Why don't the people in this thread post up the results from the 5.4 they have built and then we'll compare that to what a stock bore and stroke 4.6 is capable of? There's a shit ton of theory in here and only one guy that has done the swap- what did you end up?-- About 280-300 RWHP????


Here come the excuses....

[casper gt]

Originally Posted by acmillr Why don't the people in this thread post up the results from the 5.4 they have built and then we'll compare that to what a stock bore and stroke 4.6 is capable of? There's a shit ton of theory in here and only one guy that has done the swap- what did you end up?-- About 280-300 RWHP???? Here come the excuses....

I don't think this is a beat up on 4.6 thread. 4.6's are fine depending on what you want out of the car, I don't know about anyone else but the 5.4 2v were putting together is an N/A bracket motor & my biggest reason going this direction is CID. I just can't get my arm's around a 4.6 being able to do what I want (& keep some streetability) which is why I went this direction. my car also gets far too many passes(300-350 +/-) a year to do a very much on the edge 4.6 2v N./A, IMO. dont wory MY results will be posted.

[r3dn3ck]

300hp@5300/332tq@4000 on stock heads with a tq curve 4.6 fanboys can only dream of.

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market

My lightning blower will be here later this week so AC will be able to sleep at night.

[acmillr]

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck 300hp@5300/332tq@4000 on stock heads with a tq curve 4.6 fanboys can only dream of. Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market My lightning blower will be here later this week so AC will be able to sleep at night.

I just put together a 4.6 that makes 355 Ft.Lbs. and achieves max HP by 6000 (348). Once again, the proof just isn't there. As far as your "stock" heads go, your story on that subject changes daily. A few weeks ago (and on your little website) you said your heads were ported???????????

It's just absurd to keep steering people in this direction when you are not making nearly the power that all your nut swingers claim..

[ZoomZoomMFer]

hey thats my car... lol

[r3dn3ck]

not a few weeks ago ac... a few months ago I thought they were ported but without a flowbench at my disposal I had to take the word of the seller on that. They had the nice valves and the right finish but they obviously didn't flow. It turned out that I got burned on the deal that got those heads so fukkin what. My little website notes I had other sets of heads as well that I foolishly sold which were very well ported and would have made a lot more power. It also notes if you shut your stupid mouth for a few minutes and read that I was not really happy about that whole situation.

You're a 4.6 fanboy with nothing positive to say to go ahead and shut the fugg up. Both my web site and my story have stayed consistent and at least I have been open with everyone about the successes and failures. So has the fact that your head is stuck so far up your own azz that you can't just shut up and let people fukkin live their lives. You're a loser, go commit suicide dude. I'm done with you.