Too good to be true??? 5.4 swap guys.

norcalam2 · November 16th, 2009, 07:29 PM

Soooo... I found a freshly rebuilt 03 lightning longblock with S/C front cover and oil pan. No tranny, accessories, or tranny for $2300

First off.. My goal is a reliable 400rwhp not too much more and not too much less. Would this be a better way to go than 4v? Ultimately I will be getting the MM max grip box with offset geometry. And I'd like to do some road course/ twisties/ drifting.

Will my accessories and ecu work with the 5.4?
T56 transmission? Better trans options? (I want 6spd)

any other thoughts are appreciated.

GTermi · November 16th, 2009, 08:25 PM

make sure its not burning oil or something

330CubeGt · November 16th, 2009, 09:02 PM

My Write-up...

5.4 Swap Write-Up | ::TECH ARTICLES:: | 100% 94-04 Mustang Tech, Articles, Help | SN95Mustangs.com

And thats not to bad of a Price at all...

norcalam2 · November 16th, 2009, 10:18 PM

It's freshly rebuilt 0 miles so I hope it's not burning oil. And thanks for the writeup I was looking for it! Reps

norcalam2 · November 16th, 2009, 10:51 PM

330cube, Why do I need to use the 4.6 oil pan? I see that it needs modification but why can't I use the 5.4 pan? Also are there anyways besides X-pipe to raise HP while not raising TQ too much. I don't want to break shit or the tires loose at half throttle. I didn't really understand the flywheel/clutch issue. I will be looking for a T-56 what needs to be done to mate that tranny up?

Is $2400 a good price for a lightning motor?

BlackedOut04GT · November 16th, 2009, 10:58 PM

If you are going to do a 5.4 swap, IMO, build up the rear end so that you don't break anything. That and it would be a good thing to do if you plan to drift with it too.

mustanginky · November 16th, 2009, 11:06 PM

the lightning motor will be a torque monster anyways. yes it will be a badass engine and the price is good so long as the engine is good.

you'll have to have a hole in your hood as i've yet to see a hood that clears it.

norcalam2 · November 16th, 2009, 11:23 PM

I plan on a cowl hood anyways so that's fine. I have 3.90's should I go down to 3.73's with the 5.4? What's the first thing to go on the rear end? And blackedout, your car is sick.

BlackedOut04GT · November 16th, 2009, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by norcalam2

I plan on a cowl hood anyways so that's fine. I have 3.90's should I go down to 3.73's with the 5.4? What's the first thing to go on the rear end? And blackedout, your car is sick.

Thank you.

For the rear end, stronger diff, and axles, the 3.73's will be good as well. You should also look into an axle brace to to help keep things from twisting. You should be fine with an 8.8 rear end unless you want to upgrade to a built 9in rear.

norcalam2 · November 17th, 2009, 12:12 AM

Ya I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to rear ends. the only thing I really know anything about is gears. I'm planning on getting the MM max grip box so I think I will be ok with the 8.8 right? I don't plan on modding the lightning motor too much beyond maybe a pulley, tune, FMIC, and ofcourse exhaust. So that should put me at around 380ish RWHP and 460ish ftlbs. How soon should I be looking at getting a new rear end?

GTermi · November 17th, 2009, 01:18 AM

oh sorry, i almost bought a motor and right before i did the guy was like "oh by the way, it kinda sorta burns oil", just trying to keep an eye out for ya.

330CubeGt · November 17th, 2009, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by norcalam2

It's freshly rebuilt 0 miles so I hope it's not burning oil. And thanks for the writeup I was looking for it! Reps

Back @ Ya!!

Originally Posted by norcalam2

330cube, Why do I need to use the 4.6 oil pan? I see that it needs modification but why can't I use the 5.4 pan? Also are there anyways besides X-pipe to raise HP while not raising TQ too much. I don't want to break shit or the tires loose at half throttle. I didn't really understand the flywheel/clutch issue. I will be looking for a T-56 what needs to be done to mate that tranny up?

Is $2400 a good price for a lightning motor?

You need to use the 4.6 Pan and Pickup tube.

Reason being the 5.4 pan will hit your Crossmember before the Motor mounts sit all the way down because it is deeper then the 4.6 pan and made for a truck.( I found out the hard way) And if you tryed to use the 5.4 pickup tube like i did you will find out that it hits the bottom of the 4.6 pan because it is a tad deeper.

The pan needs to be modded because the rod caps will hit the fins in the pan the clearances are tight.

The T-56 will bolt right up any tranny that bolts to a 4.6 will bolt to a 5.4.
You just need to make sure you have a 8 bolt flywheel.

IF your looking for low end torque i would say a H pipe or a Pro Chamber but if you rather the HP over the TQ i would go with a X pipe.

$2400 is not bad for a lightning motor if its Rebuilt with low miles.

Just for example i paid $1400 shipped for my motor complete from top to bottom with 40k on it, And then later $700 for the supercharger setup not counting all the other stuff i had to collect to make it work so if i were in your shoes and wanted to do it and had the cash, i would grab the motor being complete it will save you alot of time looking for odds and end parts.

330CubeGt · November 17th, 2009, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by norcalam2

Ya I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to rear ends. the only thing I really know anything about is gears. I'm planning on getting the MM max grip box so I think I will be ok with the 8.8 right? I don't plan on modding the lightning motor too much beyond maybe a pulley, tune, FMIC, and ofcourse exhaust. So that should put me at around 380ish RWHP and 460ish ftlbs. How soon should I be looking at getting a new rear end?

Are you coping me

The Rear is fine, i would consider spending the money and going with a 31 spline unit with new 31 spline axles but not realy needed it all depends on the driving conditions if its just a DD And you Romp on it every so often you will probably be fine.IF your taking it to the track Every or Every other weekend on Slicks or D.Rs its only a matter of time untill it will let go.

quiksilver225 · November 17th, 2009, 03:11 AM

should i blow the conch shell one more time???

ForestGRN_Ghost · November 17th, 2009, 03:15 AM

do it.

Ke^in · November 17th, 2009, 08:28 AM

I was told that the new 5.0 engine was basically the same block as the 4.6, with different heads.

If this is true, how hard would it be to convert a 4.6 to a 5.0?

ForestGRN_Ghost · November 17th, 2009, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Ke^in

I was told that the new 5.0 engine was basically the same block as the 4.6, with different heads.

If this is true, how hard would it be to convert a 4.6 to a 5.0?

bore it.
stroke it.

dcook_14 · November 17th, 2009, 10:03 AM

@OP, I don't think you're going to be able to drive both road courses/twisties and drift as well. I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that for drifting you want the front suspension softer than hell and the back suspension stiffer than hell. I wouldn't want to go diving into corners on a road course with a soft front suspension.

Also if you're drifting, you're proabably going to want an aluminum block. Weight distribution is key for drifting and the Mustangs aren't the best in that department. That's why little 4 banger toyotas with 160 hp can out drift most cars, they are 50/50 weight balanced front to rear. Just some food for thought.

Anyway, that's a good price on the motor. Is that gonna have forged internals? I'm not too familiar with the lightning... The T-56 is gonna be your best bet for a six speed. Jazzer schooled me on them yesterday so he's to credit for the things that I know about them. Jazzer, sorry if I misconstrue anything here. The T-56 comes in a bunch of different flavors, each having their own ratios for each gear. Jazzer runs the 1260 model and loves it. The steps between gears are much more consistent, especially for the 1st/2nd and 4th/5th shift, than a 3650 or T45. I don't really know how fast you usually run around road courses, but I would assume the fifth gear of a T56 with a ratio of .8:1 would be a lot better than having to go into fifth on a 3650 with a gear ratio of .68:1.

I think you'd be fine running the gears you have now. There's not going to be that much of a difference between 3.90s and 3.73s. If you had 4.10s I might step down, but I think you'll be alright. Also I know you'd said that you're worried about breaking the tires loose when you're coming out of corners. If that happens, upgrade your tires and/or suspension!

wishIhada5.0 · November 17th, 2009, 10:09 AM

I would wanna see receipts for the rebuild...other than that it sounds like a pretty decent deal

330CubeGt · November 17th, 2009, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by quiksilver225

should i blow the conch shell one more time???

<--- *Blows Conch Shell*

Originally Posted by Ke^in

I was told that the new 5.0 engine was basically the same block as the 4.6, with different heads.

If this is true, how hard would it be to convert a 4.6 to a 5.0?

+ Back @ Ya!!!

Nothing with these cars are realy hard if you think about it, majority of the swaps, conversions etc can be done on the weekend lol.

And it is, Just a Stroked 4.6 with different heads...

November 16th, 2009, 07:29 PM	#1
norcalam2 Hardcore Enthusiast 99 GT & 05 GSXR 750 next year Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,091	Too good to be true??? 5.4 swap guys. Soooo... I found a freshly rebuilt 03 lightning longblock with S/C front cover and oil pan. No tranny, accessories, or tranny for $2300 First off.. My goal is a reliable 400rwhp not too much more and not too much less. Would this be a better way to go than 4v? Ultimately I will be getting the MM max grip box with offset geometry. And I'd like to do some road course/ twisties/ drifting. Will my accessories and ecu work with the 5.4? T56 transmission? Better trans options? (I want 6spd) any other thoughts are appreciated. __________________ NCMM Treasurer/Coordinator Moto Droid FTMFGDW MM Cares Crew GRAMMAR NAZI NCMM Home page GODSPEED WHEEL GROUP BUY!!

November 16th, 2009, 08:25 PM	#2
GTermi Enthusiast 2004 Mustang GT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 563	make sure its not burning oil or something __________________ MM Cobra Club #74 We're a wolf pack of four, wandering the desert, searching for strippers and cocaine... Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane..

November 16th, 2009, 09:02 PM	#3
330CubeGt MM Fanatic 1998 Mustang GT 1996 Mustang V6 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orlando Posts: 4,412	My Write-up... 5.4 Swap Write-Up \| ::TECH ARTICLES:: \| 100% 94-04 Mustang Tech, Articles, Help \| SN95Mustangs.com And thats not to bad of a Price at all... __________________ If you can't remove a 1 Pound, find 16 places to remove 1 Ounce

November 16th, 2009, 10:18 PM	#4
norcalam2 Hardcore Enthusiast 99 GT & 05 GSXR 750 next year Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,091	It's freshly rebuilt 0 miles so I hope it's not burning oil. And thanks for the writeup I was looking for it! Reps __________________ NCMM Treasurer/Coordinator Moto Droid FTMFGDW MM Cares Crew GRAMMAR NAZI NCMM Home page GODSPEED WHEEL GROUP BUY!!

November 16th, 2009, 10:51 PM	#5
norcalam2 Hardcore Enthusiast 99 GT & 05 GSXR 750 next year Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,091	330cube, Why do I need to use the 4.6 oil pan? I see that it needs modification but why can't I use the 5.4 pan? Also are there anyways besides X-pipe to raise HP while not raising TQ too much. I don't want to break shit or the tires loose at half throttle. I didn't really understand the flywheel/clutch issue. I will be looking for a T-56 what needs to be done to mate that tranny up? Is $2400 a good price for a lightning motor? __________________ NCMM Treasurer/Coordinator Moto Droid FTMFGDW MM Cares Crew GRAMMAR NAZI NCMM Home page GODSPEED WHEEL GROUP BUY!!

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November 16th, 2009, 10:58 PM	#6
BlackedOut04GT Enthusiast 2004 Mustang GT 14.61@96.03 2.159 60' (Was my first/best pass. So far.) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Maynard, MA. Posts: 843	If you are going to do a 5.4 swap, IMO, build up the rear end so that you don't break anything. That and it would be a good thing to do if you plan to drift with it too. __________________ Black Stang Crew #7 Car Built By CraigsList Commander of the 'COALITION for the LIBERATION of ITINERANT TREE-DWELLERS' Mods:MGW Shifter, Bassani Catted X, Flowmaster CB, Accufab 70MM TB, JLT CAI, Diablo Tune, Slotted rotors w/ ceramic pads.

November 16th, 2009, 11:06 PM	#7
mustanginky Hardcore Enthusiast 2000 gt Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: La grange, KY Posts: 1,326	the lightning motor will be a torque monster anyways. yes it will be a badass engine and the price is good so long as the engine is good. you'll have to have a hole in your hood as i've yet to see a hood that clears it. __________________ Procharged 2000 5 Speed BAB GT, 7.3 lbs, 368 hp, 406 rwtq. HARDCORE CREW

November 16th, 2009, 11:23 PM	#8
norcalam2 Hardcore Enthusiast 99 GT & 05 GSXR 750 next year Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,091	I plan on a cowl hood anyways so that's fine. I have 3.90's should I go down to 3.73's with the 5.4? What's the first thing to go on the rear end? And blackedout, your car is sick. __________________ NCMM Treasurer/Coordinator Moto Droid FTMFGDW MM Cares Crew GRAMMAR NAZI NCMM Home page GODSPEED WHEEL GROUP BUY!!

November 17th, 2009, 12:12 AM	#10
norcalam2 Hardcore Enthusiast 99 GT & 05 GSXR 750 next year Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,091	Ya I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to rear ends. the only thing I really know anything about is gears. I'm planning on getting the MM max grip box so I think I will be ok with the 8.8 right? I don't plan on modding the lightning motor too much beyond maybe a pulley, tune, FMIC, and ofcourse exhaust. So that should put me at around 380ish RWHP and 460ish ftlbs. How soon should I be looking at getting a new rear end? __________________ NCMM Treasurer/Coordinator Moto Droid FTMFGDW MM Cares Crew GRAMMAR NAZI NCMM Home page GODSPEED WHEEL GROUP BUY!!

November 17th, 2009, 01:18 AM	#11
GTermi Enthusiast 2004 Mustang GT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 563	oh sorry, i almost bought a motor and right before i did the guy was like "oh by the way, it kinda sorta burns oil", just trying to keep an eye out for ya. __________________ MM Cobra Club #74 We're a wolf pack of four, wandering the desert, searching for strippers and cocaine... Counting cards isn't illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane..

November 17th, 2009, 03:11 AM	#14
quiksilver225 Hardcore Enthusiast 1999 Mustang GT Join Date: May 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,243	should i blow the conch shell one more time??? __________________ BBK CAI, March UDPs, Eibach Sportline Springs, MM C/C plates, Koni Yellows, Centerforce DF clutch, FRPP Billet Flywheel, B&M Pro-Ripper Shifter, BBK ceramic LTs, BBK catted X-Pipe, SLP LM1, EBC rotors, 4.10 FRPP gears 5.4 4V coming soon

November 17th, 2009, 03:15 AM	#15
ForestGRN_Ghost Enthusiast 99 mustang GT Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: spokane Posts: 754	do it. __________________

November 17th, 2009, 08:28 AM	#16
Ke^in Hardcore Enthusiast 2002 Mustang GT ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ ☣ ☢ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Mid-Ohio Valley Posts: 2,446	I was told that the new 5.0 engine was basically the same block as the 4.6, with different heads. If this is true, how hard would it be to convert a 4.6 to a 5.0? __________________ I've been bitten by radio-active breasts!

November 17th, 2009, 10:03 AM	#18
dcook_14 Hardcore Enthusiast 2004 Mustang GT Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cedar Falls, IA Posts: 1,919	@OP, I don't think you're going to be able to drive both road courses/twisties and drift as well. I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that for drifting you want the front suspension softer than hell and the back suspension stiffer than hell. I wouldn't want to go diving into corners on a road course with a soft front suspension. Also if you're drifting, you're proabably going to want an aluminum block. Weight distribution is key for drifting and the Mustangs aren't the best in that department. That's why little 4 banger toyotas with 160 hp can out drift most cars, they are 50/50 weight balanced front to rear. Just some food for thought. Anyway, that's a good price on the motor. Is that gonna have forged internals? I'm not too familiar with the lightning... The T-56 is gonna be your best bet for a six speed. Jazzer schooled me on them yesterday so he's to credit for the things that I know about them. Jazzer, sorry if I misconstrue anything here. The T-56 comes in a bunch of different flavors, each having their own ratios for each gear. Jazzer runs the 1260 model and loves it. The steps between gears are much more consistent, especially for the 1st/2nd and 4th/5th shift, than a 3650 or T45. I don't really know how fast you usually run around road courses, but I would assume the fifth gear of a T56 with a ratio of .8:1 would be a lot better than having to go into fifth on a 3650 with a gear ratio of .68:1. I think you'd be fine running the gears you have now. There's not going to be that much of a difference between 3.90s and 3.73s. If you had 4.10s I might step down, but I think you'll be alright. Also I know you'd said that you're worried about breaking the tires loose when you're coming out of corners. If that happens, upgrade your tires and/or suspension! __________________ Cobra fuel tank/hat/pumps in GT! 3/20 (hope) to do list: paint blower, tb/plenum, valve covers; install headers, 60s, and struts; wire up engine Cobra to GT transplant ~ 18 hours! BTW I'm looking to sell all the stuff that came off my GT

November 17th, 2009, 10:09 AM	#19
wishIhada5.0 Hardcore Enthusiast 2002 GT, True Blue, Stick Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: About an hour east of Pittsburgh Posts: 2,296	I would wanna see receipts for the rebuild...other than that it sounds like a pretty decent deal __________________ True blue crew founder/member #1 MM's late nite crew #4 The beast lives..KB FTMFW!!!!

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