[Quicktime_GT]

The Eaton blower on the older saleens was an M90, and it is rare that they make 375rwhp.. Check out BlueGT.com // Shaun Strayer's supercharged 1999 Ford Mustang GT Convertible this guy only made 298rwhp with an m90 compared to making 395rwhp with a KB 1.7








M90:





The cobra Eaton is an M112.. and as far as I know will not bolt on to the M90 intake manifolds. I don't think the M112 is a terrible blower, only when you try overdrive them to make lots of boost.. Guys make 500rwhp all the time on 32v's which is far more than what a stock 2v will handle.. A SOHC 4.6 isn't going to make nearly as much power as a DOHC 4.6 even at the same boost, but that does prove that the blower is capable of supporting that much power.

M112:


















Here is a kit that should be available soon.. looks like a pretty cool setup to me.. If they'd sell everything but the Eaton that would be great, you can run across m112's fairly cheap..

[ronster]

Cobra is a 4V. Different heads. The other manifold you have pictured is designed to work with the stock accesory belt. How do you make boost? Also keep in mind that the M112 designation is nothing more than a measurement of displacement. There are at least 12 different M112 blowers on the market today. Some with rear entry, some with top entry, some with side entry. You need to be very specific about which one you get. For example, the 99-00 Ford Lightning M112's had one bolt parttern for mounting the blower, the 01-04 had a different bolt pattern.

[00mustanggt]

Originally Posted by Mustang RacR94 some guy on the v6 form put the 03-04 supercharger on a v6

Why would someone supercharge a v6? just go buy a v8 and mod it.

[yknot]

It's really funny how all those with older or Non-blown cars are the first ones to diss the Eaton Blower!!! You guy's and gals kill me with your, stupid comments about something you have no EXPERIENCE with. Yes you read the mags, and the WEb....but you still drive around in under-powered cars and then have the balls or lack of good judgment to talk bad about the Eaton or any 03-04 COBRA engine. I would think that you are the same ones that would constantly rub others noses in the shit you spread, IF and I do mean IF you every actually got one for your own.
There is nothing at all wrong, with The M112 Eaton or it's smaller M90 or other siblings, the only problem is people like yourself don't have one.

Ford was one of the first car companies to take the chance and give normal people a chance to see how others with much more money, live. I have several vehicles and all are turbocharged or supercharged, with my newest toy going both ways, using a EATON M112 blower and 2-turbo's to compound the boost. Yes I could have used any number of blowers, but I happen to like the Newest generation (5th) blower with it's 3-lobes and 60° of twist. Oh-, if you ever do get one for yourself, make sure Steigmeier does his wonderful port job on it, that guy is magic. But then again, were talking EATON and you think there junk...right

[ronster]

WOW. A Magnuson/Eaton supporter. We spent the day yesterday testing the new Magnuson with the Tork Tech intake on a 2003. 403 rwhp at the peak. Average torque was 368 from 1900 to 5800 rpm. 2/3 throttle is about all it can take before it blows the tires off. A well designed product. Here is a picture of one completed install on a 2000 GT that was done in the midwest. BIG advantage was it only took 3 and a half hours with basic hand tools.
http://home.fastspecialties.com/imag...Tech%20005.jpg

[mattstang]

Originally Posted by yknot It's really funny how all those with older or Non-blown cars are the first ones to diss the Eaton Blower!!! You guy's and gals kill me with your, stupid comments about something you have no EXPERIENCE with. Yes you read the mags, and the WEb....but you still drive around in under-powered cars and then have the balls or lack of good judgment to talk bad about the Eaton or any 03-04 COBRA engine. I would think that you are the same ones that would constantly rub others noses in the shit you spread, IF and I do mean IF you every actually got one for your own. There is nothing at all wrong, with The M112 Eaton or it's smaller M90 or other siblings, the only problem is people like yourself don't have one. Ford was one of the first car companies to take the chance and give normal people a chance to see how others with much more money, live. I have several vehicles and all are turbocharged or supercharged, with my newest toy going both ways, using a EATON M112 blower and 2-turbo's to compound the boost. Yes I could have used any number of blowers, but I happen to like the Newest generation (5th) blower with it's 3-lobes and 60° of twist. Oh-, if you ever do get one for yourself, make sure Steigmeier does his wonderful port job on it, that guy is magic. But then again, were talking EATON and you think there junk...right

this thread is about puttin one on a two valve. so you would put the eaton on rather than buy a kit made for your car, save time installing, not have to fab stuff for it?

[ChrisJ]

KB, Procharger, Turbo, Vortech, Paxton > Heaton M112

[KingChronic]

matt, and chris +1, and coming from a guy who has had several termi's, and as many as 5 eatons sitting around at one time, THEY STILL SUCK.

they are a small displacement roots type blower, that is not going to be anywhere near as efficient as a bigger twin screw. ive had stock eatons, apten ported eatons, steggy 3's, and 4's, yeah, they're nice, and on a 03 motor make a great amount of torque, they also make alot of heat.

alot of heat can be the death of that little 2V motor.

[ChrisJ]

ANYONE thinking about doing a heaton on a 2V you would really do HAVE to do the coolant mod...

Is that built into these adapters? If not it would be a great idea to do...

[KingChronic]

yup, and a aftermarket heat exchanger.

[ronster]

The TTI kit has an inter cooler and front mount heat exchanger in it. Here are some test results from JMS: At 2500 RPM it made 357 ft/lbs of torque. Temperature was 74 degrees and 34 % humidity. Timing was at 16 degrees and AFR 11.8/1. Inlet temp was 116 degrees on pass one, 121 on pass 2, 128 on pass 3 and 141 on pass 4. The passes were made without shutting the car off between passes. After the car was removed from the dyno, it was driven for about 5 miles and the inlet temp dropped back to 96 degrees.

[ChrisJ]

Wrong cooling mod...

The cooling mod I am talking about is here Click Here

Originally Posted by SCT Guy First I need to explain how the cooling system in the car works. The water pump sucks water through the radiator. This water then goes through the water pump and is pushed into the engine block in the holes behind the water pump. Once the coolant is in the engine block it then passes through the restrictions in the head gaskets and into the cylinder heads. Ultimately the coolant wants to go back to the water cross over at the front of the intake manifold (or that large tube assembly on a 4V), through the thermostat and back into the radiator to get cooled and start all over. There are however a few other things to note. Water wants to take the path of least resistance. Meaning, water doesn’t flow up hill, it wants to take the shortest path it can to where it wants to go (it’s one of the laws of physics things). So, if the water goes into the block at the front, and ultimately wants to end up about 8” above where it entered the block at (where the water cross over is), how do you get the water to the back of the motor? Well first off there are holes in the head gasket that restrict how much water can go through the head gasket and into the cylinder head. In most cases these restriction holes are smaller at the front of the motor and get larger as you go toward the back of the motor. In theory this makes the “path resistance” close to being equal from the front of the head to the rear of the head. Now, on a Mustang engine, on the passenger side cylinder head (if it’s a 4V) or in the back corner of the intake (if it’s a 2V), there is a hose that goes to the heater core. This hose brings hot coolant into the heater core. The tube that runs under the intake manifold brings the coolant out of the heater core and back to the water pump. From the water pump this coolant gets circulated back into the engine, meaning it does NOT get cooled via the radiator. This is what allows you to have heat from the heater core, slowing rising in temp, before the thermostat opens. This coolant is always circulating from the pump, to the passenger side block, to the passenger head, to the heater core, back to the pump and repeats. It’s always circulating. Now, let’s step back and think about the cooling system and how it was designed. In theory all cylinders generate the same amount of heat, and this is a pretty good assumption based on what we are talking about here. So, you’d like the same heat rejection capability at all cylinders. By this I mean you’d like the same volume and flow rate of coolant around the combustion chambers, and you’d like the same coolant temperature around all the cylinders. Heat rejection is controlled by the temperature difference between two “bodies”, the surface area (basically the area inside the head around the chamber where is) and the same flow rate of coolant. If all these are the same then the heat rejection is the same at all cylinders. If the heat generation is the same at all the cylinders, and the heat rejection is the same at all the cylinders, we can basically say the combustion chamber temperature is the same at all the cylinders, and if that’s the case all the cylinders have the same timing requirements. Taking one step farther back from here to help explain this, there are basically four main things that control knock, or detonation, in an engine; Combustion chamber design, cylinder pressure, fuel octane and mixture temperature (there are others, but this is not a class in Internal Combustion Engine Theory, that’s down the hall). The first three are pretty much the same in any given engine at any given time. Meaning, from cylinder to cylinder how much of a difference is there in chamber design, none, how about fuel octane, none, how about cylinder pressure (we are going to say none for right now) but what about temperature? Ok, before I get too far along this path, and we will come back to this, let’s go back to the cooling system. If coolant wants to take the path of least resistance the passenger side of the motor has coolant flow like this; From the water pump into the block, from the block into the cylinder head, some coolant at the front of the motor goes right to the water cross over, and the coolant at the back of the motor goes through the heater core. There is a flow path out of the front and back of the cylinder head. This is good. What about the drivers side cylinder head? It goes in at the same place but on the driver’s side. But there is no flow path at the back of the cylinder head to promote coolant flow to the back cylinders. The only way coolant gets to the back of the drivers head is from staggering the size of holes in the head gasket. Now what happens even if this works? Remember a few paragraphs up talking about heat rejection and one of the main factors is the temperature difference between what you trying to cool (the cylinder head) and the coolant that is doing the cooling? Well, if you do get good circulation via this hole staggering all that hot coolant from the back of the cylinder head, has to travel through the head back to the water crossover up front. But this coolant is already hot. It can’t absorb very much heat if it’s already absorbed heat from the rear cylinders. Assuming that the coolant that went through the head gasket openings at the front of the head did its job, most likely this coolant is going to heat these combustion chambers up, rather than cool them down, since they were already cooled off once. At this point you can see the need for a way to open up the back side of the drivers cylinder head for a coolant flow path, to allow coolant to flow out. This accomplishes two things; one is to open up a flow path to allow more coolant to the back of the drivers side cylinder head, and two, prevents any hot coolant from going back across the front cylinders on the drivers side, possibly putting heat back into the combustion chambers. This is what the cooling system mod is all about. Adding in a flow path out of the back of the driver’s side cylinder head. The next obvious question is what vehicles should have this done and why. As a purist I think every engine should have this modification. It allows you to run more timing and/or leaner A/F ratio with cooler combustion chamber temperatures. In reality it’s not necessary on a naturally aspirated vehicle, unless you want to run pretty high compression ratio. Even though you could argue that this isn’t true, I’m going to at least put it out there; You have to assume that Ford designed the cooling system correctly for a stock vehicle. I think in most cases this is true. But, when you start making a lot more power, like a supercharger, nitrous, things like that, you are making more heat. The engine was NOT designed to handle this kind of heat rejection. How many power adder guys here have either melted a spark plug on the drivers’ side, or blew a ring land on a drivers’ side piston? I bet most of these failure are cylinders 7 & 8 as well. More power is more heat in the combustion chamber. (As a Band-Aid, our software can retard spark on individual cylinders to help some of this, but this is just masking the bigger problem). Here are some things to think about for the tuners and the engine builders on this board. Knock, or detonation can be broken up into many different types, but I only want to split them into two for now. One is when there are all the cylinders knocking. This is a very loud, very clattery sound of detonation. For you older racers, this was what GM vehicles sounded like the late 70’s early 80’s. Then there is knock when you only hear a few knocks every now and then, or only one cylinder knocking, and it’s no where near as loud as the continuous knock. This is the sign only one or two cylinders are knocking. In this situation, probably 9 out of 10 times the cylinder is on the driver’s side. But, you can’t let the engine go out the door like this, so you have to take timing out. This change/modification will solve this knocking problem. In fact, it will solve it enough that you can most likely run more timing in the engine than you were before, which is be more power. I want to add a few more comments; I know this is a lot of information to absorb. The current way people are doing this mod is to direct the coolant that is coming out the drivers’ side head, into the tube under the intake. This is done via some Y fitting. As a purist this is going back into the engine without being cooled. While this is still much, much better than the factory setup, I’d like to see this directed back to the water crossover for circulation into the radiator. I also realize this is not totally feasible in all cases. Mercury Marauders get their coolant for the heater core from the water crossover. This means they have this problem on both cylinder heads, not just one. The heat generation will vary some from cylinder to cylinder. The air flow and injector flow is not perfect in these engines. Some cylinders get more airflow and those will be more sensitive to knock. This is the same concept that NASCAR vehicles use for their cooling systems. Both 2V’s and 4V’s will benefit from this problem. 4V’s have more problems getting coolant around the two exhaust values and cooling them, so they benefit more. But, any 400+ RWHP 2V can and will benefit from this.

[mystang0673]

Originally Posted by 00mustanggt Why would someone supercharge a v6? just go buy a v8 and mod it.

well im sure he barely has as much in his car as it would take to get a v8 in the 12s and he is there... plus when he smokes a gt he can say its only a v6. ha

[FOR POINT SIX]

ChrisJ I am very interested in what you think.

I am really thinking about getting the Fast Specialties super charger. I have no dreams of making this a 600HP-700HP car. It is just a DD. With HP numbers below 400HP the engine should last for a long time. And now with there new front mount aluminum water to air heat exchanger, this should help even more. I do not want to dig into the motor. The TQ numbers down low in the RPM look great for a DD.

[suprajay79]

Originally Posted by FOR POINT SIX ChrisJ I am very interested in what you think. I am really thinking about getting the Fast Specialties super charger. I have no dreams of making this a 600HP-700HP car. It is just a DD. With HP numbers below 400HP the engine should last for a long time. And now with there new front mount aluminum water to air heat exchanger, this should help even more. I do not want to dig into the motor. The TQ numbers down low in the RPM look great for a DD.

+100000!!! My car isn't made for hundreds upon hundreds of horsepower, but it would be nice to have an easier way closer to the 400 hp mark!

[ChrisJ]

Originally Posted by FOR POINT SIX ChrisJ I am very interested in what you think. I am really thinking about getting the Fast Specialties super charger. I have no dreams of making this a 600HP-700HP car. It is just a DD. With HP numbers below 400HP the engine should last for a long time. And now with there new front mount aluminum water to air heat exchanger, this should help even more. I do not want to dig into the motor. The TQ numbers down low in the RPM look great for a DD.

It sounds like the kit that is for-mentioned would be about perfect for you.

But alot of people say all they want is 400rwhp/400rwtq...The addiction is just starting at that point...Thats why I went with a blower that will last me deep into the numbers that I want...

I really enjoy my Vortech and of course will always recommend them...A nice S-Trim would make you happy as well...

[ronster]

Keep in mind that the Tork Tech M112 Gen 5 based kit, has not yet been tested to what it's capabilities really are. It is currently running with a 3.3 upper and 7 1/4 lower. Next week, it will be tested with a 2.8 upper to crank up the boost. Rmember at one point it was already at 437 rwhp, before the stock 4.6L went south and the rods came out.
TTI has now designed an adapter plate to run the new TVS. There is a video on the Magnuson site, where it was tested on a stout 6.0L and made 777 HP. That is phenomimal for a small displacement 1.9L blower.

[ChrisJ]

Originally Posted by ronster Keep in mind that the Tork Tech M112 Gen 5 based kit, has not yet been tested to what it's capabilities really are. It is currently running with a 3.3 upper and 7 1/4 lower. Next week, it will be tested with a 2.8 upper to crank up the boost. Rmember at one point it was already at 437 rwhp, before the stock 4.6L went south and the rods came out. TTI has now designed an adapter plate to run the new TVS. There is a video on the Magnuson site, where it was tested on a stout 6.0L and made 777 HP. That is phenomimal for a small displacement 1.9L blower.

That is not bad but I am talking daily driving a 600+rwhp car...For a 1.9 blower that is great but I can bet they were spinning the $hit out of it to get 777hp plus the added cubes I am sure helped...

The eaton is great for someone who can be really happy with 400/500rwhp...Thats why I say that for someone planning on staying stock blocked they will be fine with the kit...

But for me it just wont do...I am never going to have enough power...

[ronster]

A man after my own heart. Its like that sticker on my dash. If its not scaring the XXX out of you, you aint going fast enough.

Ron

[reaper30]

def dont waste time with eaton