[swapd2002gt]

bunch of questions, prefer answers from people that have actually done the mods and cans say yes/no as far as gains and cost value. thanks

all going in a 97 mark viii 4v, but i already have a forged cobra crank, 98 cobra cams, and 97 cobra intake manifold, 03/04 cobra forged rods... so it will be a built teksid/cobra in the end. i am gonna do the imrc delete. i have longtubes and offroad x, jlt rai, and this will be a daily driver.

1. im gonna pay to have the cams degreed, im not experienced enough to trust myself. what kind of adjustable gears do you recommend?

2. cam spacers? any gains? mmr claims you get gains, anyone have them?

3. oil pan windage tray? mmr says 15hp on there site, really?

4. what brand rod/main bearings? part numbers?

5. pistons? i am staying na for a while, would you run the mark viii pistons?

6.piston rings? brand/type

7. i have an 03/04 fuel rail and maf, when i get dyno tuned, what pound/type injectors do you 96-98 cobra guys use?

8. coolant mod? yay or nay and instructions?

9. keep egr or delete? i have sct and will get dyno tune, so delete its good? seems like less trouble

10. clutch? i have advance auto zoom clutch, it needs to go, whats the best bet? spec 2+

11. k-member? brand/how hard to install/benefits?

12. under drive pulleys? what brand, can you mix them with the March pulley 655-1158?

right now im only worrying about making my donor engine reliable, with not having to worry about it needing to come out 2 weeks after i get it installed, i hope for years of reliable running.

many more questions to come, im sure., thanks for all advise.

i also have this over on corral and svtperformance, thanks to all who reply, i will read each at night when i get home from work and may not be able to reply right away. if you give me some advise on one forum, you dont need to send it on all 3, thanks again!

all going in my 2002 slow/worn out gt... my car has nothing to prove, its got 247k rough miles and still rocking!!!

[swapd2002gt]

na_svt has already chimed in and gave me all the info i need for the cams/timing, thanks.

[Tang Stang]

Well, I'll skip over the cam questions then...

#3. Not worth it unless you're planning on spinning it over 7K, IMO.
#4. I have a new set of coated Clevite 77's for sale: bearing help
#5. I prefer to do things once, so no, I wouldn't run the Mark 8 pistons. It depends on what your future plans are however.
#6. Depends on what pistons you decide to run.
#7. 24lb/hr.
#8. On a stock NA engine it isn't particularly necessary, though it would be easy to do while the engine is out of the car. Just search "evenflow cooling mod".
#9. That's your call. I'd leave it in place on a DD, as it will make a difference in your gas mileage.

#12. I would not recommend running UDP's on a 4V. Read here: U/D Pullies - Opinions From the Professionals - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum

[WickedSnake00]

#1 I did some radical degree changing, I used the TFS adjustable crank gears, then Cloyes adjustable cam gears. I went to 111/117 on a set that was originally 109/109. For degreeing buy a Crane piston stop, that will save you some time and frustration.
#4 Agreed on Clevites of some sort.
#5 Depends on your goals. How do you want to make power and how much?
#7 Same as above. Personally I'm looking to be 700hp capable so I'm going way the hell out to 60lb/hr's. Stock 03/04 Cobra's run 39lb/hr, so there's plenty of those floating around cheap.
#8 I don't believe the earlier 96-98 B-head's had the same cooling issue as the 99-03 C-heads. If you do opt to go that route it's pretty easy. I have an 03 so I did it, just fabricated it with some brass elbow fittings and brass expansion plugs for less than $20.
#9 Can go either way. EGR does help fuel economy, but it's effect is rather small on most engines. I'm doing it on mine just because the PO had his set up for it deleted.
#10 Again dependant on power levels. I've got a Spec 3+, but I'm looking for bigger power. 2+ should be fine for your level.

[swapd2002gt]

ok, so i got the m8 motor out last weekend. it sucked but its out finally. i bought me a bbk coold air intake and some composite imrcs this week and my 98 forged crank is also sitting in my living room. with work and school, mustang time is hard to come by, so its gonna be a long drawn out thing i guess. since i have the forged crank and rods, i am pondering buying forged pistons for the build and then saving for an on3 turbo kit. dunno, anyone can chime in with thoughts.

[VicRattlehead]

Clevite bearings. Get the coated ones or regular ones and have them coated. We use calicoat coatings.

[LGHTNG02GT]

browsed through your 1st post.

with having the motor all apart i would def. not keep the stock mk VIII pistons. with the forged crank/rods may as well upgrade while you're in there. future upgrades for more power!!!

i went ahead an deleted my EGR while i was doing my swap. it was easier/less parts to track down/buy. i too went with a SPEC stage 2 clutch. i would recomend it. it has a little bit heavier of a pedal than stock but is still very streetable.

i kept my stock K, but i wish i would have went with a tubular one. they weigh less and are supposed to be much stronger/more rigid than the stocker. especially now that i'm looking into a turbo i wish i would have swapped it while i was doing the swap. i read a little bit about UDP's on SVTPerformance...if they dont have the balancer it seems they are a little risky because the harmonics can apparently destroy the gear that runs the oil pump...unless you would upgrade that to a billet gear. this is most severe at high rpm's and since you got cobra cams and are having them degreed i'm gonna go and figure you will be rev'ing this thing out.

&&about the injectors, the n/a 32v's came with 24lb'ers. thats what i went with for my swap along with the 03 cobra MAF

[swapd2002gt]

glad you could chime in on this, im still getting pm's from guys claiming this is a $5k+ swap, and im like hell no, if you swap stock for stock its $1500 tops. To all who read this that do no know about lghtng02gt, he is the man that wrote the swap of swaps for all gt owners looking cheap 4v power! check him out, i give him an A+ for all his advise and his write-up.
Now my swap is obviously gonna be more than $1500, but i bought everything to turn my mark engine into a cobra engine, plus im basically gonna rebuild it so i shouldnt have any reliability issues at all. i have the entire donor car to part out and i also will have my gt motor to sell, so i can make most of my money back that im buying parts with. i am getting some great deals on parts from members on here and the other mustang sites, and thats awesome b/c it lowers my build cost, so thanks to all that hooked me up!
With that said, i have been reading up on the on3 turbo kits for $1700 and some used s/c kits on the net, and i honestly think that im gonna go ahead and get forged pistons and get the swap running and then start saving $30-$40 a week to buy me either the turbo kit or a s/c kit.
As far as kmember benefits, first off im gonna have the stock one off for the swap, so its a no brainer, and every site i looked at says i need a kmember kit for a turbo setup, so im looking at more space and less weight.
I have a guy that wants to buy the irs and tranny from the m8 for $500 and thats a deal i think for both, but that is almost enough to buy the complete upr kit that is only $549... i may even shoot upr a message on one of these boards and see if i can get a discount code or something like that. AM hooked me up witha hell of a deal on my sctx3, so it doesnt hurt to ask!

[LGHTNG02GT]

Originally Posted by swapd2002gt glad you could chime in on this, im still getting pm's from guys claiming this is a $5k+ swap, and im like hell no, if you swap stock for stock its $1500 tops. To all who read this that do no know about lghtng02gt, he is the man that wrote the swap of swaps for all gt owners looking cheap 4v power! check him out, i give him an A+ for all his advise and his write-up. With that said, i have been reading up on the on3 turbo kits for $1700 and some used s/c kits on the net, and i honestly think that im gonna go ahead and get forged pistons and get the swap running and then start saving $30-$40 a week to buy me either the turbo kit or a s/c kit. As far as kmember benefits, first off im gonna have the stock one off for the swap, so its a no brainer, and every site i looked at says i need a kmember kit for a turbo setup, so im looking at more space and less weight. I have a guy that wants to buy the irs and tranny from the m8 for $500 and thats a deal i think for both, but that is almost enough to buy the complete upr kit that is only $549... i may even shoot upr a message on one of these boards and see if i can get a discount code or something like that. AM hooked me up witha hell of a deal on my sctx3, so it doesnt hurt to ask!

i have been looking into k-members as well because, truth be told, i'm looking to go turbo in a few years too. i have some parts collected already but i still have a long way to go. i'm figuring on a single 68-70mm turbo but doing that, i will be pulling my motor back out to forge everything so you are doing youself a favor in doing all that right away. i have been looking at granatelli honestly, i bought some stufff from them and i though they deserved a shot because i couldnt complain about anything i got from them before.

&&thank you for the kind words man!! i really appreciate it. &&you're right, there is no way this swap done in its most basic form will be $5,000 to do. i pulled mine off for $1600 before a tune. once i sold all my 2v motor and all the other stuff left over, i could have nearly broke even but i let all my parts go extra-cheap just to move them. good luck with your swap and keep us posted on how it goes!!

[swapd2002gt]

update:
went to machine shop... bad news on used parts
my crank is no good, i carried it to 2 shops and the both said to junk it, it spun the bearing on the rod journal so bad, it looks to have 2 stress cracks in the damaged area, plus its ate up really really bad. it can be fixed for a price, but i have been advised against it by an awesome engine ford builder. waiting on the seller to see if he is gonna help me out, if not a paypal claim will be made...
i bought 03/04 rods from another member on svtp and 1 needs replaced, it got so hot the whole bottom half if blackened, maybe it can be a nice paper weight.

took my manifold out and am contemplating hacking it up and cutting the runners and maybe raising the floor, more to come sooner or later...

[NeverEnuff]

Run stock crank. Get another rod.

[Rabid Stang]

Stock cranks are good to 600 or so, so unless you plan on more than that you would be fine with stock.

[NeverEnuff]

Where do ppl get that they are only good for 600hp? I see this number so much. I ran over 600RWHP in mine, at 7000rpm and no issues. That was on 15psi. I upped it to 18psi and ran it like that for a while. Still no issues. Tore the motor down for my BB build, and the crank was perfect, hell the bearings still looked new. I put the exact same crank in my BB build spinning north of 8000rpm, and making 550hp. I will be spraying it shortly with a 200shot and I am not really worried about the crank at all. Ive seen 8000rpm and 800hp out of a stock cast crank.

Most ppl dont need or req the use of the forged crank..but still I see ppl with a bolt on motor and no plans of going any further with it running one. No point. It robs power being that its heaiver and not needed. Only build what you need. Wasting money on parts that aren't needed is what makes this hobby suck at times.

[nicksecondaddress]

Originally Posted by NeverEnuff Where do ppl get that they are only good for 600hp? I see this number so much. I ran over 600RWHP in mine, at 7000rpm and no issues. That was on 15psi. I upped it to 18psi and ran it like that for a while. Still no issues. Tore the motor down for my BB build, and the crank was perfect, hell the bearings still looked new. I put the exact same crank in my BB build spinning north of 8000rpm, and making 550hp. I will be spraying it shortly with a 200shot and I am not really worried about the crank at all. Ive seen 8000rpm and 800hp out of a stock cast crank. Most ppl dont need or req the use of the forged crank..but still I see ppl with a bolt on motor and no plans of going any further with it running one. No point. It robs power being that its heaiver and not needed. Only build what you need. Wasting money on parts that aren't needed is what makes this hobby suck at times.

Man I wish you would post this on the 4V NA thread at Corral, I posted a cast crank was fine for 8000RPM and both Todd and Kelly were trying to give me grief even when I posted Brandon was doing 10K rpm with his.............

Plus a gazillion for this post BTW

[NeverEnuff]

^ They both know I run a cast crank. They prob just don't want to tell someone to run one and then it breaks and they come pointing the finger. I do'nt have any prob with someone pointing a finger at me. Ill just make a video of my car starting, point at it, then run it down the track with the tach screaming at 8000rpm, then spray it and then post the video up that it works.

IDK...I can't be the only lucky one. IF you even consider it luck. Its a deep skirted block. 6 bolt mains. Mains that look like Satan made them when compared to a 302/351 main. That combined with huge heads to stable the block as well...Ill take my chances. Seems to be working so far.

[Rabid Stang]

Originally Posted by NeverEnuff ^ They both know I run a cast crank. They prob just don't want to tell someone to run one and then it breaks and they come pointing the finger. I do'nt have any prob with someone pointing a finger at me. Ill just make a video of my car starting, point at it, then run it down the track with the tach screaming at 8000rpm, then spray it and then post the video up that it works. IDK...I can't be the only lucky one. IF you even consider it luck. Its a deep skirted block. 6 bolt mains. Mains that look like Satan made them when compared to a 302/351 main. That combined with huge heads to stable the block as well...Ill take my chances. Seems to be working so far.

.

[na svt]

Originally Posted by nicksecondaddress Man I wish you would post this on the 4V NA thread at Corral, I posted a cast crank was fine for 8000RPM and both Todd and Kelly were trying to give me grief even when I posted Brandon was doing 10K rpm with his.............Plus a gazillion for this post BTW

Brandon's cast crank probably has $2k in prep work. Also, Brandon's rpms have gone from 9k to 10k..I thouhgght he shifted at 12,000? BTW, I think Shawn shifts somewhere in the 8500 range and runs quicker (when the cars are the same weight of course).


BTW, Matt's engine is gonna blow at 7800but not before it makes 470.

Matt, your comment about telling someone to run a cast crank and having it break (or cause other problems) is dead on. Cast cranks will spin high but everything has to be perfect, like the balancing, tolerances and they also cannot be combined with heavy @ss pistons and heavy rods. The lighter the rods/pistons the greater the longevity/reliability of the cast crank. I assure you that every cast cranked, PS engine is slinging seom pretty lightweight components. I know that's true because I know the weights of the components they use.

[nickmckinney]

Wow Todd to twist it up again, happy bird day

Lets see reality here:

Prep work for either a cast or forged is about the same at the 9000+ range I would wager.

While Brandon goes through the lights in the low to mid 9000 range he has stated he zinged 10,500 at least once before.

To spin at 9000+ everything has to be perfect, doesn't matter the crank material.

Still waiting for some actual evidence the cast cranks will fail rather than conjecture.

I hope you know the weights as I own some of those parts (as well as some top guided parts which are the lowest weight of them all).

Here is some info from Al P on the cast crank for a motor like the OP was talking about:

"Rick Dorn races a GT with a junkyard MK 8 engine,20 pounds of boost7300 rpm 9.90/135mph after two seasons a broken rod killed the junkyard dog. I really wound'nt worry very much about it. a bonus of the GT crank is it's 8 pounds lighter."