Max boost with pump gas?

40thAnnivGT · January 9th, 2012, 11:32 PM

What would be the "pump gas limit" with a turbo setup? My compression is 9:1. I've seen people run from 14-20+ on race, and people running 20 on pump.

Tang Stang · January 10th, 2012, 09:17 AM

There isn't a precise answer to that. While CR plays a role, so do ACT's, cam profile, ignition advance, gear ratio (Load), etc.

moneygreenstang · January 10th, 2012, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by 40thAnnivGT

What would be the "pump gas limit" with a turbo setup? My compression is 9:1. I've seen people run from 14-20+ on race, and people running 20 on pump.

You would run around 15-16* on the street with a good tune and have another for 20*+ with race gas for the track

NickPohlAandP · January 10th, 2012, 10:16 AM

Or get yourself a water/meth injection system and you'll be safe for more. Water/meth effectively boosts the octane of your fuel (in a way)

andrewskaggs · January 10th, 2012, 11:18 AM

The octane boost of meth isn't really something you can base a tune around (it's not much anyway). The main advantage of water/meth is the lower IATs.

NickPohlAandP · January 10th, 2012, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by andrewskaggs

The octane boost of meth isn't really something you can base a tune around (it's not much anyway). The main advantage of water/meth is the lower IATs.

Kindof correct. It does lower your IAT's but the main benefit of meth is the drastic reduction of detonation risk, allowing you to either run more timing or more boost.

stal94gt · January 10th, 2012, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by andrewskaggs

The octane boost of meth isn't really something you can base a tune around (it's not much anyway). The main advantage of water/meth is the lower IATs.

Not quite. My old car runs meth to these day. After 20 thousand miles of 18# of boost and 20 degrees timing it is still kicking. The meth jet size determins how rich it will go. The shot I ran dropped the af .8

andrewskaggs · January 10th, 2012, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by NickPohlAandP

Kindof correct. It does lower your IAT's but the main benefit of meth is the drastic reduction of detonation risk, allowing you to either run more timing or more boost.

Right. The detonation risk is reduced partly because of an octane boost and partly because of lower IATs.

Trick Tuners posted a well-thought out mathematical explanation of meth as relates to octane awhile back here:

Meth injection

TL;DR version: to increase your octane rating 6 points, you'd have to inject about 20% of your total fuel as methanol.

I think we both agree on what we're trying to say...I'm just clarifying. Yes, meth lowers IATs. Yes, it increases the effective octane of your fuel (a little). Yes, meth will allow you to run more boost because of the combination of the two factors above.

Tang Stang · January 10th, 2012, 11:54 AM

For instance, if you ran 10 psi of boost (assuming a FPR with a 1:1 ratio) with 42lb/hr injectors at 100% duty cycle with a 625 ml/min methanol nozzle, injecting 93 octane pump gas and a 50/50 mix of meth/water, you would be running the equivalent of ~94.8 octane fuel. The main effect of methanol/water injection is cooling the air charge, but the small octane boost helps a bit, too.

SSG Pate · January 10th, 2012, 02:14 PM

i am running 20 to 21 PSI with methanol on pump gas.

saxmanJJ · January 10th, 2012, 02:27 PM

I'm non-intercooled and I run 16* max timing, 12PSI max boost.
My motor is "built" (forged internals).

I throw some race gas (103 unleaded) in to the mix (on top of 93 octane) for piece of mind.

I want to go intercooled (air to water since I could add ice at the track) though - maybe this year.

40thAnnivGT · January 10th, 2012, 08:37 PM

Yeah I'm not planning on running meth to run 20psi on pump gas. My cams will be MHS stage 2 turbo cams, 4 core intercooled, probably around 16-17* of total timing around 18psi for high boost. I'm trying to get around 600whp with stock heads but with cams. We will see since the turbo is way more efficient and less strain on the motor from a blower.

Shaun03GT · January 10th, 2012, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by 40thAnnivGT

Yeah I'm not planning on running meth to run 20psi on pump gas. My cams will be MHS stage 2 turbo cams, 4 core intercooled, probably around 16-17* of total timing around 18psi for high boost. I'm trying to get around 600whp with stock heads but with cams. We will see since the turbo is way more efficient and less strain on the motor from a blower.

Yes and no. Yes because the motor isnt turning it all the time. But turbo hits a lot harder in the midrange vs a blower. Ive seen a good amount of guys blow there motors with a turbo. Actually one guy lives close to me had a turbo 2V and bent a rod getting on it in 2nd.

ytngt · January 10th, 2012, 09:08 PM

Mine has lived for a couple thousand hard miles at 20 ish psi on mostly pump gas. Now bear in mind that I use a J&S Safeguard knock control system.

40thAnnivGT · January 10th, 2012, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Shaun03GT

Yes and no. Yes because the motor isnt turning it all the time. But turbo hits a lot harder in the midrange vs a blower. Ive seen a good amount of guys blow there motors with a turbo. Actually one guy lives close to me had a turbo 2V and bent a rod getting on it in 2nd.

Still more efficient way to make power. Keep in mind, my motor is forged, so it'll take quite a bit of pressure to bend an H beam. Not saying it's impossible though.

Originally Posted by ytngt

Mine has lived for a couple thousand hard miles at 20 ish psi on mostly pump gas.

I think I'll have my high boost at 18psi on 93 octane. We'll see how it does. My goal is to trap ~130 though the 3650 and still be driven on the street like a regular car. I.E not have to fill it with race gas to run high boost.

JTs03v6 · January 10th, 2012, 09:29 PM

The most I run on pump gas is 15psi with a built 9:1 motor and race ported heads and cam. I wouldnt push it past that with out more octane.

bandity2k00 · January 10th, 2012, 09:39 PM

Arent you selling your car?

40thAnnivGT · January 10th, 2012, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by bandity2k00

Arent you selling your car?

Nooooo way. I'm selling the blower kit off of it which is unofficially sold.

SSG Pate · January 10th, 2012, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by andrewskaggs

The octane boost of meth isn't really something you can base a tune around (it's not much anyway). The main advantage of water/meth is the lower IATs.

I disagree The octane Boost is quit significant up to 116 and the tune is based off the octane. That is the point with meth it raises the octane so you can run more timing and boost safely without the fear of detonation. Yes it also cools the AIT, but if that was its main point it would be useless in most intercooled applications.

stal94gt · January 11th, 2012, 07:05 AM

You sure can. I have twin ford gt pumps in mine. Plus this kit helps and its cheap

PPRV Delete Hose Kits, AD AutoParts

January 9th, 2012, 11:32 PM	#1
40thAnnivGT Hardcore Enthusiast 2004 Mustang GT 12.35 @ 116 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Parma, Ohio Posts: 1,126 iTrader: 0 reviews	Max boost with pump gas? What would be the "pump gas limit" with a turbo setup? My compression is 9:1. I've seen people run from 14-20+ on race, and people running 20 on pump. __________________ Vortech boosted MMR900 and supporting mods 420rwhp 410rwtq loaded Mustang Dyno Turbo boost in progress

January 10th, 2012, 09:17 AM	#2
Tang Stang Hardcore Enthusiast 2004 Mustang GT Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Imperial, MO Posts: 1,961 iTrader: 2 reviews	There isn't a precise answer to that. While CR plays a role, so do ACT's, cam profile, ignition advance, gear ratio (Load), etc. __________________ Rod @ AzzKicker Cars 2004 Ford Mustang GT-The Driver-BBK CAI, PP TB & Inlet, Steeda UD's, SLP LM1, & 3.73's. 1990 Mercury Cougar XR7-The Meth Addict-5.0L DOHC Stroker w/2.1L KB SC. 1995 Ford F150-Mud Toy-5.0L, 4x4, 33's, & Warn 8274 Winch

January 10th, 2012, 10:16 AM	#4
NickPohlAandP I like boobs!!! 2000 GT convertible dunno Join Date: May 2011 Location: Brooklet, GA Posts: 2,827 iTrader: 2 reviews	Or get yourself a water/meth injection system and you'll be safe for more. Water/meth effectively boosts the octane of your fuel (in a way) __________________ Last time you voted to prove you aren't racist. This time prove you're not an IDIOT!!! My Garage--->http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...-member-46919/

January 10th, 2012, 11:18 AM	#5
andrewskaggs Hardcore Enthusiast 2003 Mustang GT 8.26@83.06 (1/8) Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Henderson, TN Posts: 1,104 iTrader: 4 reviews	The octane boost of meth isn't really something you can base a tune around (it's not much anyway). The main advantage of water/meth is the lower IATs. __________________ SLP :: SCT :: Eaton :: Maximum Motorsports :: Baseline Suspensions :: Strange Engineering MM Bracket Racing Crew BAMA Performance Drag Team #1 Project Thread :: YouTube Channel

January 10th, 2012, 11:54 AM	#9
Tang Stang Hardcore Enthusiast 2004 Mustang GT Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Imperial, MO Posts: 1,961 iTrader: 2 reviews	For instance, if you ran 10 psi of boost (assuming a FPR with a 1:1 ratio) with 42lb/hr injectors at 100% duty cycle with a 625 ml/min methanol nozzle, injecting 93 octane pump gas and a 50/50 mix of meth/water, you would be running the equivalent of ~94.8 octane fuel. The main effect of methanol/water injection is cooling the air charge, but the small octane boost helps a bit, too. __________________ Rod @ AzzKicker Cars 2004 Ford Mustang GT-The Driver-BBK CAI, PP TB & Inlet, Steeda UD's, SLP LM1, & 3.73's. 1990 Mercury Cougar XR7-The Meth Addict-5.0L DOHC Stroker w/2.1L KB SC. 1995 Ford F150-Mud Toy-5.0L, 4x4, 33's, & Warn 8274 Winch

January 10th, 2012, 02:14 PM	#10
SSG Pate Premium Member 00 Mustang GT Vert/88 5.0 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,766 iTrader: 3 reviews	i am running 20 to 21 PSI with methanol on pump gas. __________________ Proud Iraq and Afghanistan War veteran Powered By MMR 4.75L Stroker, Tuned at Kurgan Motorsports

January 10th, 2012, 02:27 PM	#11
saxmanJJ Hardcore Enthusiast 2004 Mustang GT 11.463@121.50 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SE PA Posts: 1,644 iTrader: 1 reviews	I'm non-intercooled and I run 16* max timing, 12PSI max boost. My motor is "built" (forged internals). I throw some race gas (103 unleaded) in to the mix (on top of 93 octane) for piece of mind. I want to go intercooled (air to water since I could add ice at the track) though - maybe this year. __________________ MM Bracket Racing Crew Member #5

January 10th, 2012, 08:37 PM	#12
40thAnnivGT Hardcore Enthusiast 2004 Mustang GT 12.35 @ 116 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Parma, Ohio Posts: 1,126 iTrader: 0 reviews	Yeah I'm not planning on running meth to run 20psi on pump gas. My cams will be MHS stage 2 turbo cams, 4 core intercooled, probably around 16-17* of total timing around 18psi for high boost. I'm trying to get around 600whp with stock heads but with cams. We will see since the turbo is way more efficient and less strain on the motor from a blower. __________________ Vortech boosted MMR900 and supporting mods 420rwhp 410rwtq loaded Mustang Dyno Turbo boost in progress

January 10th, 2012, 09:08 PM	#14
ytngt Enthusiast 2002 Mustang GT Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: LA Posts: 953 iTrader: 0 reviews	Mine has lived for a couple thousand hard miles at 20 ish psi on mostly pump gas. Now bear in mind that I use a J&S Safeguard knock control system. __________________

January 10th, 2012, 09:29 PM	#16
JTs03v6 Hardcore Enthusiast 2003 mustang 7.48x1.56=11.67 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,318 iTrader: 0 reviews	The most I run on pump gas is 15psi with a built 9:1 motor and race ported heads and cam. I wouldnt push it past that with out more octane. __________________ New combo: Forged SC short Block,280cfm heads, Precision 6262 turbo, cx 31x12x3 fmic http://photobucket.com/JTsTurboBuild http://youtube.com/user/JTsStang

January 10th, 2012, 09:39 PM	#17
bandity2k00 Baker Jr. 2002 Mustang GT Coming after build!! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Gambrills,MD Posts: 2,913 iTrader: 3 reviews	Arent you selling your car? __________________ MMR-Modular Mustang Racing Phils Machining-For your ABS Module Delete Manifold! American Muscle-www.Americanmuscle.com HorsePower By Hermonn-TUNER THANKS TO ALL SPONSORS,READY FOR THIS 2012 RACING SEASON!

January 11th, 2012, 07:05 AM	#20
stal94gt I Post Entirely Way Too Much 2003 mustang v6 ;) slow Join Date: May 2010 Location: eglin afb florida Posts: 10,197 iTrader: 2 reviews	You sure can. I have twin ford gt pumps in mine. Plus this kit helps and its cheap PPRV Delete Hose Kits, AD AutoParts __________________ bone stock from the factory!

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