4 cylinder V8... WTF???

NickPohlAandP · February 6th, 2012, 03:29 PM

So I'm here thinking my car is running like complete poo poo ca ca because I haven't gotten the tune right yet, but when we hooked it up to a scanner this weekend we found the entire right bank is dead!!!

So, here's what my thoughts are. The cam timing could be all dicked up on the passenger side, or there is an electrical gremlin. I'm not ruling out cam timing because everyone can make mistakes, but when I did it I could swear it was spot on. I used a degree wheel and a dial indicator and set the cam to 110 degree ICL. I haven't gotten a chance to run a compression check on it yet (that will tell for sure if there is a cam issue), but if it's an electrical gremlin, what could it be?

A penny for your thoughts...

02GT89 · February 6th, 2012, 03:32 PM

I'm more expensive than that ....

J.k I wish u luck

Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

jaehow23 · February 6th, 2012, 03:57 PM

well damb.

WickedSnake00 · February 6th, 2012, 04:04 PM

As in it's not firing at all on that side? Even if your cam timing is effed, you should get some firing.

Have you checked the obvious things such as fuel and spark? I know all the COP's come to a single splice in the harness. If that got damaged you could have a whole set of misfires.

Plus if you pull the valve cover it shouldn't be hard to tell if the cam timing is in the right neighborhood. Just throw your dial on the balancer and put a dowel down the bore and see when the valves are just about at max lift.

glittle75 · February 6th, 2012, 04:18 PM

complete poop like wont stay running? When my 98 threw the cam gear off it (one cam not spinning) the car wouldn't stay running unless WOT, and even then only ran about 1200 RPMs.
Scanner said rank bank lean? or cyls 1-4 misfire? or what? Electrical could be cops, Injectors, easy to listen for. Or maybe upstream O2 for that bank is bad and tryin to compensate.

NickPohlAandP · February 6th, 2012, 04:26 PM

The scanner showed cylinders 1-4 misfiring. It's getting nothing from those 4. I would like to find where the COP's splice together in the harness. I'm not saying that that is definitely it, but I just don't feel like I messed up the cam timing.

When I tried to drive it you could tell it was loading up on fuel in the right bank and popping out the exhaust, just running like shit.

Nitmare67 · February 6th, 2012, 04:34 PM

I would start by actually verifying spark, not hard to do. Go from there.

NickPohlAandP · February 6th, 2012, 04:48 PM

I will be all of the testing on it starting Friday. I'm hoping that I don't go insane trying to find the problem

Nitmare67 · February 6th, 2012, 04:50 PM

Stop freaking out. Just go through 1 step at a time. Verify you have spark, then move to fuel. Check the simple stuff first. You had the motor out theres a good chance something got unplugged or you forgot something. You'll figure it out.

number1gt · February 6th, 2012, 04:51 PM

Check your fuel pressure in the fuel rail, my first guess, I know gm's commonly misfire on one whole bank do to bad fuel rails...

NickPohlAandP · February 6th, 2012, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by number1gt

Check your fuel pressure in the fuel rail, my first guess, I know gm's commonly misfire on one whole bank do to bad fuel rails...

It's definitely not a fuel rail issue. I am using the stock fuel rails. The pressure is the same in both rails. I'm thinking it's going to be a spark failure. Or should I say, I'm hoping it's a spark issue, I really don't want to go through re-degreeing the cam, but I will if I have to. Oh well, if it's not one thing it's another right? After I get a chance to diagnose it I'll post my findings. In the mean time any input/suggestions is/are appreciated.

ReverendDexter · February 6th, 2012, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Nitmare67

Stop freaking out. Just go through 1 step at a time. Verify you have spark, then move to fuel. Check the simple stuff first. You had the motor out theres a good chance something got unplugged or you forgot something. You'll figure it out.

^^^ This. Occam's razor is your friend. Make a list, and put the simple/cheap/easy stuff up top. Nothing worse than tearing into something to find out when you put it back together that it was a fuse all along.

NickPohlAandP · February 6th, 2012, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Nitmare67

Stop freaking out. Just go through 1 step at a time. Verify you have spark, then move to fuel. Check the simple stuff first. You had the motor out theres a good chance something got unplugged or you forgot something. You'll figure it out.

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter

^^^ This. Occam's razor is your friend. Make a list, and put the simple/cheap/easy stuff up top. Nothing worse than tearing into something to find out when you put it back together that it was a fuse all along.

Gotcha. I didn't think I was freaking out though, did I come across like that? I'm just frustrated and want to drive the car already. I will definitely be starting with the cheap stuff also. The best advice I've gotten so far is "Don't change anything else on the car until you get this issue figured out". That is so very true. I don't want to mask the issue any more than it already is.

Rev.. What is Occam's razor?

Anyone know where in the harness the right bank COP's wires meet up?

Edit: I just looked up Occam's razor. I like it!

Rabid Stang · February 6th, 2012, 07:04 PM

They meet near the firewall, near where the transmission harness meets the engine harness. Call me if that didn't help, I'll talk you through it.

NickPohlAandP · February 6th, 2012, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Rabid Stang

They meet near the firewall, near where the transmission harness meets the engine harness. Call me if that didn't help, I'll talk you through it.

Much appreciated. Like I said earlier, I will be going to work on it first thing Friday so hopefully I can find the issue. I bet it'll run a lot better once I get all cylinders firing.

nicksranger01 · February 6th, 2012, 07:26 PM

wait a second OP you said in an earlier post the cyl 1-4 arent firing, not sure about new Ford motors but in the old GMs they staggered the cylinder numbers...what I'm saying is odd numbers 1,3,5,7 would be right and even 2,4,6,8 are the left side if thats the case then the front cylinders arent firing

86er · February 6th, 2012, 07:27 PM

Trying to remember, does the 2v have just one mark on the gear or two like the 3v? You didnt put that bank 180 out did you?

NickPohlAandP · February 6th, 2012, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by nicksranger01

wait a second OP you said in an earlier post the cyl 1-4 arent firing, not sure about new Ford motors but in the old GMs they staggered the cylinder numbers...what I'm saying is odd numbers 1,3,5,7 would be right and even 2,4,6,8 are the left side if thats the case then the front cylinders arent firing

Ford numbers their cylinders differently. If you're standing in front of the car the cylinder on your left, closest to you (passenger side furthest forward on the car) is number 1. Then it goes 2-3-4 towards the firewall. Number 5 is the furthest forward on the driver side, then 6-7-8, with 8 being at the driver side firewall.

Originally Posted by 86er

Trying to remember, does the 2v have just one mark on the gear or two like the 3v? You didnt put that bank 180 out did you?

I used COMP adjustable cam gears. And I don't see how it could be 180 out since when I degreed it I set the ICL at 110. I guess anything is possible. I'm going to check the obvious first.

NickPohlAandP · February 6th, 2012, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by nicksranger01

wait a second OP you said in an earlier post the cyl 1-4 arent firing, not sure about new Ford motors but in the old GMs they staggered the cylinder numbers...what I'm saying is odd numbers 1,3,5,7 would be right and even 2,4,6,8 are the left side if thats the case then the front cylinders arent firing

Oh, and one other thing. On GM engines the driver side is the odd bank, not the passenger side. It goes 1-3-5-7 from the front of the car to the firewall on the driver side, 2-4-6-8 from the front of the car to the firewall on the passenger side. Firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 unless you have a cam designed for the 4-7 swap, in which case your firing order would be 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2. Mopar small blocks are the same too. This is my first Ford, been GM my whole life.

nicksranger01 · February 6th, 2012, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by NickPohlAandP

Oh, and one other thing. On GM engines the driver side is the odd bank, not the passenger side. It goes 1-3-5-7 from the front of the car to the firewall on the driver side, 2-4-6-8 from the front of the car to the firewall on the passenger side. Firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 unless you have a cam designed for the 4-7 swap, in which case your firing order would be 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2. Mopar small blocks are the same too. This is my first Ford, been GM my whole life.

oh yea thats right i was thinking of something else, between my ranger and mustang, these are my first Fords also, rebuilt many GM motors with my brother

February 6th, 2012, 03:29 PM	#1
NickPohlAandP I like boobs!!! 2000 GT convertible dunno Join Date: May 2011 Location: Brooklet, GA Posts: 2,827 iTrader: 2 reviews	4 cylinder V8... WTF??? So I'm here thinking my car is running like complete poo poo ca ca because I haven't gotten the tune right yet, but when we hooked it up to a scanner this weekend we found the entire right bank is dead!!! So, here's what my thoughts are. The cam timing could be all dicked up on the passenger side, or there is an electrical gremlin. I'm not ruling out cam timing because everyone can make mistakes, but when I did it I could swear it was spot on. I used a degree wheel and a dial indicator and set the cam to 110 degree ICL. I haven't gotten a chance to run a compression check on it yet (that will tell for sure if there is a cam issue), but if it's an electrical gremlin, what could it be? A penny for your thoughts... __________________ Last time you voted to prove you aren't racist. This time prove you're not an IDIOT!!! My Garage--->http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...-member-46919/

February 6th, 2012, 03:32 PM	#2
02GT89 eating 1 ricer at a time 2002 mustang GT not sure only ran on the streets so far! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 3,444 iTrader: 3 reviews	I'm more expensive than that .... J.k I wish u luck Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app __________________ Power in the hands of a few Buy your coffee from 02gt89 I guarantee better than starbucks click here

February 6th, 2012, 04:04 PM	#4
WickedSnake00 MM's king of Neon's 404 - car not found 17.81@87 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Diesel Engine Capital of the World, Columbus, IN Posts: 7,374 iTrader: 0 reviews	As in it's not firing at all on that side? Even if your cam timing is effed, you should get some firing. Have you checked the obvious things such as fuel and spark? I know all the COP's come to a single splice in the harness. If that got damaged you could have a whole set of misfires. Plus if you pull the valve cover it shouldn't be hard to tell if the cam timing is in the right neighborhood. Just throw your dial on the balancer and put a dowel down the bore and see when the valves are just about at max lift. __________________ Official Secondhand Snake Build Thread Here Looks Like a Cobra, Sounds Like a Cobra, Tastes Like a Cobra, Not a Cobra. For Sale: P71 Interceptor motor

February 6th, 2012, 04:18 PM	#5
glittle75 Enthusiast 2003 Mach 1 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: NC Posts: 726 iTrader: 0 reviews	complete poop like wont stay running? When my 98 threw the cam gear off it (one cam not spinning) the car wouldn't stay running unless WOT, and even then only ran about 1200 RPMs. Scanner said rank bank lean? or cyls 1-4 misfire? or what? Electrical could be cops, Injectors, easy to listen for. Or maybe upstream O2 for that bank is bad and tryin to compensate. __________________ 2003 Azure Blue Mach 1 - KB, Suspension, Bolt-ons. 497hp, 460tq.

February 6th, 2012, 04:26 PM	#6
NickPohlAandP I like boobs!!! 2000 GT convertible dunno Join Date: May 2011 Location: Brooklet, GA Posts: 2,827 iTrader: 2 reviews	The scanner showed cylinders 1-4 misfiring. It's getting nothing from those 4. I would like to find where the COP's splice together in the harness. I'm not saying that that is definitely it, but I just don't feel like I messed up the cam timing. When I tried to drive it you could tell it was loading up on fuel in the right bank and popping out the exhaust, just running like shit. __________________ Last time you voted to prove you aren't racist. This time prove you're not an IDIOT!!! My Garage--->http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...-member-46919/

February 6th, 2012, 03:57 PM	#3
jaehow23 Regular 2004 Mustang GT Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Raider Nation 707 Posts: 356 iTrader: 0 reviews	well damb.

February 6th, 2012, 04:34 PM	#7
Nitmare67 Hardcore Enthusiast Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,391 iTrader: 0 reviews	I would start by actually verifying spark, not hard to do. Go from there. __________________ 99 Mustang GT 446rwhp, Vortech Aftercooled, Killer Chiller @12lbs, HPX, 3.73s, MGW, Battery Relocation, Intercooler Tank Relocated, CF DF clutch, Steeda Quick Release Quadrant, 75mm TB, Ported C&L Plenum, Stock PI Cams Advance 4 degrees, Pro Chamber

February 6th, 2012, 04:48 PM	#8
NickPohlAandP I like boobs!!! 2000 GT convertible dunno Join Date: May 2011 Location: Brooklet, GA Posts: 2,827 iTrader: 2 reviews	I will be all of the testing on it starting Friday. I'm hoping that I don't go insane trying to find the problem __________________ Last time you voted to prove you aren't racist. This time prove you're not an IDIOT!!! My Garage--->http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...-member-46919/

February 6th, 2012, 04:50 PM	#9
Nitmare67 Hardcore Enthusiast Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,391 iTrader: 0 reviews	Stop freaking out. Just go through 1 step at a time. Verify you have spark, then move to fuel. Check the simple stuff first. You had the motor out theres a good chance something got unplugged or you forgot something. You'll figure it out. __________________ 99 Mustang GT 446rwhp, Vortech Aftercooled, Killer Chiller @12lbs, HPX, 3.73s, MGW, Battery Relocation, Intercooler Tank Relocated, CF DF clutch, Steeda Quick Release Quadrant, 75mm TB, Ported C&L Plenum, Stock PI Cams Advance 4 degrees, Pro Chamber

February 6th, 2012, 04:51 PM	#10
number1gt Hardcore Enthusiast 2002 mustang gt Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,896 iTrader: 1 reviews	Check your fuel pressure in the fuel rail, my first guess, I know gm's commonly misfire on one whole bank do to bad fuel rails... __________________ Rock stock

February 6th, 2012, 07:04 PM	#14
Rabid Stang Enthusiast 1999 Mustang TermiGT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 504 iTrader: 0 reviews	They meet near the firewall, near where the transmission harness meets the engine harness. Call me if that didn't help, I'll talk you through it. __________________ Mods 545 RWHP/580 RWTQ on a Mustang Dyno Delta Force Tuned by Team Pure Insanity Racing

February 6th, 2012, 07:26 PM	#16
nicksranger01 Regular 1992 Mustang LX not done yet Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Bettendorf Iowa Posts: 270 iTrader: 0 reviews	wait a second OP you said in an earlier post the cyl 1-4 arent firing, not sure about new Ford motors but in the old GMs they staggered the cylinder numbers...what I'm saying is odd numbers 1,3,5,7 would be right and even 2,4,6,8 are the left side if thats the case then the front cylinders arent firing __________________ 92 Mustang LX 5.0 5 spd convertable, with Eagle alloy rims, custom exhaust with headers and custom driveshaft, MSD 01 Ford Ranger MODS: way to much time and money involved in this

February 6th, 2012, 07:27 PM	#17
86er I Post Entirely Way Too Much Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 7,630 iTrader: 0 reviews	Trying to remember, does the 2v have just one mark on the gear or two like the 3v? You didnt put that bank 180 out did you? __________________ Just a truck 5.4 3v: 264hp 317ft lbs rock stock The "search" button, its not just for porn piecing together the next project faster than your first sexual experience

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