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my slow auto Mach 1

11K views 94 replies 19 participants last post by  blownstang 
#1 ·
Took the Mach to the track yesterday just to see where it sits before I drop it off at the shop in 2 weeks. I know the autos are a lot slower than the sticks and from what I've read they run 13.8-13.9 @ ~102mph stock. It was slick and drag radial night so the track prep was top notch. I think I made the mistake of putting a dr on a stock auto Mach because it did not help me at all and my times didn't even come close to what it "should" run. Car is very stock with the only mods being welded in Flowmasters and Steeda sport lowering springs. The car sat on 17x9 front Mach black wheels with 255/45/17 rubber and 15x8 Weld Prostars with 275/50/15 BFG drag radials with 19psi.

Out of 3 runs fastest 60' and 1/4 pass was:

60': 2.150
330': 6.154
1/8: 9.323
MPH: 78.81
1000': 12.011
1/4: 14.296
MPH: 98.73

It just couldn't get off the line quick enough and didn't have top end pull. The 2.15 60ft came from brake torquing to 1100 rpm and then hammering it. The car did not spin or bog on any of the passes. I was expecting a 13.6-13.8 out of it because of the drag radials, but it was a dog off the line. Basically running in stock GT territory.

So comparing this to my blown GT, at ~3,475lbs it is already 40lbs heavier than my GT with longtubes, intercooled centri blower setup, Cobra front brakes, full length frame connectors, and driveshaft safety loop. If I could've somehow got it to do a 1.90 60' it might have ran a 13.80.

This was the first time for me going down the track in an auto. Boy is it boring! lol Didn't know what to do with myself for the next 12 seconds after the car got moving.

I'm hoping that in a month it will be a completely different animal. Circle D 4c 3800 stall torque converter, BCA modified valve body, VRS o/r x pipe, and intercooled Vortech V1 S at ~11psi should wake this thing up.
 
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#53 ·
Ya. Thats what i had on the GT with 12psi. Im not sure why, but the iats seem much higher on the Mach than the GT. I dont remember seeing over 120's iats on the GT. Last night was mid 50's ambient.
 
#54 ·
Ya. I sent everything over to the tuner today with my questions and comments. Since timing is already so low I dont think it is necessary to be pulling anything until 140F.
 
#55 ·
What do you guys know about trans torque management? Thinking this might be my issue with the timing being reduced so much. On a stock 4r75w should it be turned off completely or reduced by a certain percentage?
 
#56 ·
Not really making any good progress. Have loaded three adjustment files in the last month and did some street logging and not seeing much improvement. Torque limiting has been disabled so no more torque source 7 showing up when the car wants to shift. Shifting is all over the place. I don't understand why it is not shifting at the same spot every time if the car has traction. Did a pull yesterday from 57-101mph. 1-2 shifted at 6000rpm, and 2-3 shifted at 5600rpm. Did another pull right after from 40-100mph. 1-2 shifted at 5600rpm and 2-3 shifted at 5300rpm. Torque reduction has been turned off and knock sensor values have been reduced, but something is still reducing the timing. IAT's for both pulls were 80-126F and timing was pinned on 10 degrees. Tuner said he is commanding 13-14 degrees and not pulling any timing until 120F. That is definitely not the case. Another thing I just discovered is if I rev the car up higher in Neutral or Park the rpms will come back down and it will die. This is really aggravating and I am at the end of my patience. I'm giving him one last chance to get this tune right. If not, I will be going back to my old tuner. I went against my gut feeling to choose this guy because he is mechanically very knowledgeable, only 15 miles from my house, but he has only been dyno tuning for a year and street tuned a few cars before that. Old tuner is 90 miles away and has been tuning for 20 years. Little slow sometimes to respond to emails/calls/texts, but the GT ran damn good the 3 times he tuned it over 5 years.
 
#58 ·
Im willing to bet it's the knock sensors pulling spark. The knock sensors on earlier mod motors are very prone to show false knocks. That's the reason the 03/04 cobras didn't have them. The blower increases the noise which intern the knock sensor misinterprets this for knock and begins to pull spark. I would turn the knock sensors off completely.
 
#59 ·
Just got a file back with the knock sensors turned off, timing locked in the 12-13 range, an IAC adjustment, and a 2-3 shift rpm increase. I know he was trying to play it safe with keeping the factory safety measures like knock sensors and torque limiting on, but that made my 550hp car run like a 450hp car. I might have time to get it out tonight and do some logs.

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

Sorry to hear that dude. I hope it works out for you. I know you were originally considering Mike. Is he no longer an option?
He is still an option. My GT ran really well with Tim's tunes so that is why I was putting him first. I think now we might be getting somewhere with the tune file I just received so hopefully my issues will slowly be getting resolved.
 
#60 ·
Tune didnt do what it was supposed to. With knock sensors off and WOT timing supposedly locked in at 12-13 degrees, it still only saw 10 degrees of timing. Did 2 pulls 40-100mph.

Is it really this difficult to get an auto to shift consistently? On these last two pulls 1-2 shifted at 5300-5400rpm and 2-3 shifted at 5500-5600rpm. If I start the pull at a different mph is it going to change where the car shifts? Every tune file I get the shifting is somewhere else. Im down a few lbs of boost by it not shifting in the 5900-6100rpm range. Tuner said that by completely disabling safety features like torque reduction and knock sensors the shifting isnt going to be consistent. That just doesnt sound right to me. With being out 2 degrees of timing and 2psi the car is down probably around 50rwhp in the higher rpms.
 
#61 ·
The last two tune revisions I've been dealing with a P0135 code. I was dead set that it was a tune issue since it didn't come up until I loaded a new revised tune. Tuner told me to datalog the 02's and a few other things. The bank 2 sensor was all over the place. He said to also change the spark plugs and have the injectors flow rated/cleaned since I bought them slightly used. Maybe one of them on bank 2 is not spraying like it should be.

Today I changed the bank 2 02 sensor and all plugs. Did a datalog and the LTFT and sensor voltage on bank 2 looks much better and more consistent with bank 1. I'll see if the code comes back. If it does, I'll be pulling the injectors and having them flowed. If there is no issues with the injectors then I'll be going to a different tuner.

How do these plugs look to you guys? They have 18 dyno pulls, 3 track passes, 6 street datalog pulls from 45-100mph, and about 800 miles on them. Tuner said it looks like there is something in the fuel I'm using since there is some corrosion/spotting, and I might just have to change plugs more often. Well, I don't want to be changing plugs every 700-800 miles. I use 93 from Shell or BP. I'm not sure I believe fuel is the issue, but what do you guys think?







 
#63 · (Edited)
Finally much happier! Ended up taking the Mach back to my old tuner, Tim Barth of the former MPH (Modular Powerhouse), who tuned my GT 3 times in the past. A little further drive, but worth it. Had a 9am appt this morning and was on my way home at 12:30. 1 base pull against the tune I had on the car from another local tuner that I made the mistake of taking the car to, which was giving me a ton of issues described in earlier posts, and 5 pulls to get the car dialed in. The driveability and shifting is night and day difference. No more rpm dips to 500rpm when coming to a stop, no more bouncing around of rpms when slowing down, no more hesitation when giving it a little throttle from a stop or when going WOT, a gradual decrease in WOT timing instead of yanking 2 degrees out every time it hits a certain iat, and no more stalling when I free rev the car over 4k rpm. The idle is much smoother and the car instantly responds to any change in throttle.

The base pull on the dynojet with the old tune file, given the hot iats throughout all pulls of 140F, was 394/347. This was with 8 degrees of timing, 10.72psi, pig rich afr of low 10's, and an unlocked converter. The final numbers from Tim's tune are 436/377 with an iat of 144, 11.25 degrees, 12.39psi, afr of 11.5-11.8, and unlocked converter. We did one pull with the converter locked just to see the difference and the numbers were 452/386 on 11.2psi. Locked pull was done about 5 minutes after the last unlocked pull so there really wasn't any cool down time.

Tim really winged this motor to 6600rpm, where as the other tuner was very cautious and let off before 6000rpm always. It also took him 18 pulls and almost a week to tune the car, which I didn't understand. 8 tune revisions later the car still wasn't right. I'm happy I went back to Tim as I got a much better overall tune and most importantly driveability is like stock.









 
#65 ·
Took the car to the track today. Very happy with the results. Guess I have to set a new goal. The original goal was to run 11.60's on 15x8 Welds with 275/50/15 Hoosier drag radials. I couldn't get anyone to come up to the track with me today so I decided to go alone in full street trim on 275/40/17 Toyo drag radials. Time slips are posted below of the 3 passes in order. I logged every run so it was a combination of me finding out how the Toyo's like to be launched and how much to increase the shift points. Tim originally wanted to set my shift points at 6500rpm, but I thought that was a little high for the stock trans so told him to put them at 6000rpm. 1st pass 60ft was a 1.88 leaving at 1300rpm and 1-2 shifted right on 6k with 2-3 coming in just over 6100rpm. For the 2nd pass I increased the shift mph a little with my handheld. Bumped 1-2 by 5mph and 2-3 by 3mph. Weirdly the car shifted almost the same for 1-2, and a little lower at 5800rpm for 2-3. The 60ft did improve to 1.80 launching at 2700rpm so I figured the better traction had something to do with the shifts not changing much. For the 3rd pass I decided to not make any changes to the shift points but try to cut a better 60ft. I left at 3k and the car cut a 1.63 60'! I knew it left hard because my head bobbed pretty far back. 1-2 shifted at 6500rpm and 2-3 at 6000rpm. All passes were done with 17psi in the Toyo Proxes TQ's, around 1/2 tank of gas, and about 50lbs of tools in the trunk. Estimating race weight to be around 3700lbs.

I will try to make it back out this year on the Welds/Hoosier drags and shoot for 11.40's. Without the tools in the trunk, less rotating mass, and possibly a better 60' it should be attainable. Per Tim, the car has 10's in it if I add meth or e85. IAT's are hot ranging from 146-156F on the top end so it's only seeing 10 degrees of timing. Getting into the 10's on a stock motor, trans, rearend and no weight reduction would be sweet!



 
#67 ·
Your last 60ft is incredible for footbraking a full weight car! Very very good job.

You have a Circle D 4c, correct? How high can you stall it up before it pushes through the brakes? I was having trouble getting mine to go over 2200, but I think that it's due to my glazed back brakes. I'll replace them shortly to figure it out.

Also, care to post up that datalog?
 
#68 ·
Yes, Circle D 4c single disk. Im not sure how high I can hold it on the brake. I was going off the last rpm the log registered before the car moved. I can email you the log.
 
#70 ·
Very nice!

I love seeing how the trap just kept going up as you bumped the shift points up. Get it, and keep it, up there where it's making power, and you're GOING to go faster.

I'd have absolutely no qualms about shifting at 6500 on a stock transmission. I did that on mine for years, both at the track and on the street. Never had a problem. Get that 2-3 up there as well, and I bet you pick up another mph or two.

That 1.6 60' feels good, doesn't? Haha. You're giving me some hope that my D1SC setup is still going to be able to 60' decently relative to my old SVO setup. I was high 1.5s with the Eaton, and I was worried that losing the insta-torque of the roots blower was going to really hurt my 60's. But if you're going low 1.6s with your Vortech (and the same 4c converter that I'm running), that gives me some hope.
 
#71 ·
Thanks! What are your thoughts on meth vs E85? My fuel pump is maxed right now at the end of the 1/4. Tuner says he could get me over 500rwhp and into the 10's on e85 on the stock motor. Which kit are you using? Any issues? If im going to upgrade the fuel system thinking I should go e85 compatible if i decide to do that instead of meth. Not too many stations around me though. One is 5 minutes away and the other 20 minutes. Twin AEM 320lph pumps in a cobra hat with my KB BAP 40amp and swapping the tank for a 03 04 cobra baffled style from On3 or Glenns Performance do the trick? Think all i'll need is a modified FPDM with those pumps.

Currently have 60's with svt focus pump, bap, and wiring upgrade.
 
#72 ·
Car went 11.37 @ 120.71 with a 1.63 60' today. I'll post the slip tomorrow. 1st pass was the quickest. Couldnt get better than a 1.71 and 1.72 60' on the next two passes. The 275/50/15 Hoosier drag radials didnt help out much with traction as my 60' with the 275/40/17 Toyos was the same. However, the 15" Welds and light Hoosiers did help alot with rotating mass. Wanted to get the 2-3 shift a little higher, but it didnt seem to want to shift any higher than around 6200. I'll have to take a closer look at the log. 1-2 shifted at 6570. This is only with 11.25 degrees of timing. I think next year once I add meth or E85 this car could be in the 10's at full weight and stock motor, trans, and rearend.
 
#73 ·
All three runs are posted below. Timing on the 1st run was 11.25 degrees all of 2nd and 3rd gear. My 2nd run didn't record all the way. 3rd run only saw 11.25 degrees at the top of 3rd and 8, 9, 10 degrees before that. Sent the logs to the tuner to see what he thinks could be pulling timing on that run.


 
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#78 ·
I cant. Spark source is a DMR which fails to load everytime. It is a software issue the SCT has identified, but has not fixed yet.
 
#80 ·
Some parts have been bought for the upgrade to E85 and goal to run 10's on the stock motor, trans, and rear end at 3700lbs. Got a sweet deal on a cobra tank assembly, and 80lb injectors will be arriving soon. Within the next week I'll get the modified e85 gt supercar pumps and modified black306 fpdm. Then only thing left will be the ptfe fuel line, filter, and some fittings. Car was put away 2 weeks ago so won't be touching it until late March.
 
#81 · (Edited)
Are those dyno sheets your new ones and the video from your new tune? I see that is from Mike Post's shop. I know he and Tim are friendly competitors, but I didn't know Tim used Mikes shop. Or is Mike the guy you were unhappy with? If Mike wasn't the guy you're unhappy with let us know who it was so I never take my car there.
 
#82 ·
Yes both new. Tim has been tuning at Mike's shop since July. Drew at Dmark Performance is the one who couldn't tune it.
 
#84 ·
I've been away for a while. Pretty much all of 2017. Bought a second house a year ago in February and was busy working on it with a friend every weekend over the last year. Slowly coming to an end. Sh*t takes forever when you don't have much help, and only put in like 15 hours on the weekends. Haven't really touched the car. Drove it around 300 miles in all of 2017. Anyway, talked with my guy last week and he is going to try and get me in next month to get the fuel system done so I can run E85. Still looking to make 500rwhp though an unlocked converter on the stock motor and run in the 10's at full weight. Can't wait! I see that you have to pay for photobucket now so I'm guessing many can't see my previous time slips.
 
#85 ·
Photobucket got everyone to post there then pulled the rug out. Old threads are not as informative as they once were. A lot of the history of the forum has been lost. And since many of the old members are gone it can never be reconstructed. I'm using Imgur now to post pictures now.
 
#87 ·
Finally might be tuning on E85 tonight! Car should be wrapped up soon. If we don't tune tonight then next week sometime. I decided to upgrade a little over what I posted previously. Went with the Fore dual hat with GT pumps, stainless filter, and - 8 feed line instead of keeping the stock cobra hat and feed line. Also kept the 60lb injectors for now as the tuner I'm using doesn't like 80's. My local tuner is no longer tuning Mustangs so the car will be remote dyno tuned. Hoping she holds together!
 
#88 ·
it seems that there is a pattern that tuners aren't pleased with the idle and low end manners of 80# injectors.

remote tuning is great, I used joe@tricktuners on my old procharger setup.
 
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