Modded Mustang Forums banner

Spun Crank Bearing, New Motor Build Help *URGENT*

3K views 16 replies 3 participants last post by  WickedSnake00 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey so I have a 2001 SVT Cobra with 47000 miles. I bought the car running however it had a sun bearing. And it sounded really bad. It knocks at all RPM's and is much louder then how any other spun bearings sound according to the videos I have seen. It literally is louder then the exhaust and it has an aftermarket Bassani Catback exhaust. I was quoted $3000 for a rebuild at a buddies shop which is what I was first considering doing. However I have done a bit of research and searching around for better alternatives since I want to get the motor built while it is out and put a supercharger on it.

Here is what I found:

a 1996 SVT Cobra motor with the Teskid blocks capable of handling 1200 hp (that's what people say). Comes with all the wiring, ECM, Transmission, Accessories, etc. Most of it is not needed but its good to have. I can get this motor for $2000 flat dropped off at my place. The motor and tranny have 100k KM. Which is a little high but oh well. The price is really good.

I also found a 1996 Lincoln Mark Viii motor with 200k km, which also has the teskid block with all the wiring and accessories for $300 and $100 if I want the transmission which I wont need since my transmission should bolt right up.

I also have a complete supercharger setup from a 2003 SVT cobra with less that 20k miles on it. This is what I want to use for my supercharger. I have the injectors, pullies, intake, elboy, blower, extra pulies, belt, and throttle body.

I also have access to purchasing 2003 SVT cobra heads for $400! I wouldn't be surprised if I could get them cheaper for $300. They have less then 16k miles on them. The owner switched to the 2005 revised ported and polished heads for his cobra. (Keep in mind this money is in CAN so its less then US)

What I was thinking, is it worth just buying the $2000 motor and tranny and swapping it in and changing intakes over, or should I buy the Lincoln motor, use the block, the 2003 cobra heads and build my motor from there? What I really want to do is use the Lincoln motor's block and get that motor built with all forged internals. Finding a used forged crank from a cobra motor isn't hard either if I need it. I want this motor to be pushing minimum 500-600 hp when I'm finished with room to grow. I want it to be able to handle an upgraded supercharger in the future with high boost easily so I really need some expert advice here ASAP since some of these parts are only available for so long ;) I can also always use my motor I'm taking from my car for parts or just sell it later on. I haven't decided what I want to do with it yet.

What build do you guys recommend? I want to get some really aggressive cams as well to recreate that 67 fastback sound. I love the sound of the old-school muscle cars and want my car to be the same.

These are the requirements I need out of this motor

Handling a bigger supercharger/twincharge kit (such as Hellion's twin turbo kit on Americainmuscle.com)
Sounding Amazing (*Videos of different cams would be amazing if anyone can send some links of some)
I want to be able to hit high rpm's around the 7k range
Not blowing up on me

I also have been looking into getting a 5.1L stroker kit for this motor. Any thoughts on this? Will this kit work with the Lincoln block?
 
See less See more
#2 ·
If you're going to build it, go with the MKVIII. The only real difference between it and the 96 Cobra (if we're talking longblocks) is the Cobra has a forged crank, a roughly $300 value. You'll be getting new rods/pistons anyway, and it sounds like 03 Cobra heads. I would advise getting 04+ heads though. They have a few minor revisions like more spark plug threads and some cooling passage revisions.

Is there any reason you're not planning on rebuilding your engine? That would make the most sense. Even if it's a WAP block it will likely take more power than you'll ever need. No matter what route you go, you're going to need machining, rods, pistons, and rings if you want to make decent power.

Honestly you don't need that much cam with good 4V heads. They flow a lot without needing a ton of overlap or duration. You have to get pretty aggressive ones to get that sound.

If you're boosting it, I don't think the stroker kit is worth the money. You don't get a ton more power despite the cost, you can make all the power you want with boost, and not have to worry about clearancing the block or piston speed. Accufab made outrageous power on stock displacement.

If you want an idea for a pretty damn overkill parts list, check here-http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/477513-even-idiot-can-build-teksid.html 97 Cobra block, 03 Cobra crank/rods, tons of ARP ****, Manley pistons, totalseal rings, ported 03 Cobra heads, FR500 cams, Livernois springs.

If you want an idea for a stupid twincharging/compound arrangement, check here-http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/206009-project-second-hand-snake.html That engine with twin 66s cramming air into a ported 03 Cobra Eaton.
 
#3 ·
Hmmmmm..... your build got me thinking about a 5.4L motor lol. I was wondering will the crank from a 5.4L DOHC motor fit in the Lincoln block? I can use the 03 cobra heads I'm sure. Would I have to get custom pistons and rods? Or does anyone know a good set to work.

I was thinking about this, Lincoln block, 03 cobra Ported Heads, 03-04 cobra Ported lower intake, 5.4L DOHC crank (does anyone know if any of the navigators or similar motors have a forged crank?), some aggressive cam, rockers, springs, and some manly pistons and rods with an m112 cobra ported blower. How much horsepower can I squeeze out of this setup? I know the M112 blower isn't the most efficient but I want to use this as a start before I upgrade to a whipple or kenn belle.

---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------

Also I have access to a new tranny from a 96 cobra as well which I will need since my transmission is extremely stiff. No idea why. Its almost impossible to shift right now. That being said its been sitting for a year. It comes with an aluminum flywheel and RAM clutch and I'm getting it for around $600 so I have no complains however the flywheel he has I believe is a 8 bolt flywheel while the stock ones on the Mark 8 blocks are 6 bolt because of the crank.

I read here that the Lincoln motors have a forged crank from factory that are capable of handling 2000 HP at the flywheel.
5.4L Navigator Question - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum

Being a forged crank then it supports an 8 bolt flywheel like the cobra flywheel. Will that flywheel and clutch bolt up?
 
#4 ·
In theory you could put a 5.4 crank in a 4.6 block, but it's going to cost waaaaaaay more than just building a 4.6, 4.6 stroker, or 5.4 with all the machining and custom rods/pistons it would require. Not to mention the limitations of such a long stroke in such a short block would be less than ideal.

Your best bet is picking up an engine, whether it's 4.6 or 5.4, and just building that. The 4.6 is more compact and high RPM friendly. The 5.4 has more cubes and more power down low, but is a huge pain to work on in this chassis. You can make big power with either.

On an M112 combo you're limited to the mid to upper 500s due to the blower itself.
 
#5 ·
Yea I did a little more research and found out to make it work I would have to sleeve my block which doesn't turn out that well. Apparently the dry sleeves work better however they are not able to handle boost very well. The limit was around 15 pounds I believe.

I think what I am going to do is look for a reliable 5.1L Stroker kit. I want one that can push high RPMs reliably with no issues. Anyone know a few good brands and places to get them from? I honestly want to start ordering these parts by next week latest. Summers here and I need a good project asap since my other car is on hold as I look for more authentic Saleen parts for it.

So far its Lincoln block, 03 ported Heads, 5.1L Stroker Kit, 03 lower intake, M112 ported blower.

Still not sure what cam setup to get. Or which pistons will be best with my setup. Any recommendations?
 
#6 ·
I'm surprised more haven't chimed in here, but I guess the forum is pretty dead.

I think you need to define your goals a little better here. High RPM, PD blowers, and stroker kits don't necessarily match. You might want to give up one of those. For a rotating assembly it's tough to beat a Kellogg crank, Manley H-beam rods, and Manley, Diamond, or if you're really serious, Gibtec pistons. You can scoop up cranks and rods cheap as used 03 Cobra parts. Remember for pistons you want a forged 2618 alloy, not 4032.

Cam setup is up to your budget and your ultimate application. If you're going to go with a PD blower you want a grind specifically for them.
 
#7 ·
Sorry I was out for a while since I was busy with work and was unable to come check up on things.

My goal in the future is to twin charge this motor. So whatever combination you think will work for that down the road I will go with. For now the 03-04 cobra blower, heads and intake will be what I'm going with.

I read somewhere stroking your motor is usefull when your going with a twin charge setup since your able to force more air into the motor per stroke. However I have heard lots of negative things about how it can actually blow your motor as well. Since the block cant handle it. What do you recommend? I am thinking I may just skip stroking the motor and aim to build a motor that sounds as mean as possible and that can hit higher rpms without any issues.

Budget is not too much of a concern at the moment. Although I don't want to spend a ton of money for no reason. If I can save somewhere, I'm more then happy to do so. I just want to make sure I'm getting the best quality parts and that I'm getting parts that will work perfectly together for my current and future goals without me blowing my motor. If I can find used parts in good condition as well I don't mind that either ;)

Also Wicked snake what crank rod and piston setup do you recommend for this? Also can you send me a link to a place where I can purchase these? Also where is the best place to find the used kellog crank?

I found some BBK long tube headers which I will be picking up later this week as well which is a plus. Should help keep things cooler and breathing a little better. Plus you cant beat the sound :)

By the way thanks for all the help! I really appreciate it.
 
#8 ·
Regarding the Teksid vs the WAP block differences, yes the Teksid is a stronger block, but the WAP block is more than enough for any reasonable amount of power. If you're going to build the car for 1000 horsepower (which was always the magic number for the Teksid block back in the day), then yes, go Teksid, but otherwise, you have a perfectly good WAP block (I'm putting one out of an 03 Explorer in my Thunderbird right now, good block) that is more than strong enough even with a twin charged setup.
 
#9 ·
Especially when you're able to cram as much boost into the cylinder as a compound setup, the overall displacement isn't as much a factor. Usually the limiting aspect is how much your engine can physically handle. Lots of guys out there (including Accufab) make tons of power on 4.6L displacement. If anything with my setup I'm going to run out of fuel or bend a rod long before I reach the maximum power of it. Not to mention if you've got a blower it's going to have tons of low end torque to begin with, so any torque gained from being a stroker is minimal.

Now do you want to build a motor on the side, or are you ok with your car being down for awhile? For the most part your 01 Cobra engine is an excellent start; you've got an aluminum WAP block and a forged crank to start with. If not your best option is sourcing a used Teksid block (like the one you mentioned) or a late 05+ WAP block, and a used forged crank. You can check the usual spots for used parts like forums or other classified sites. Cobras had them stock so there's a fair number out there.

Your best bet for rods is Manley 4340 H-beams w/ARP2000 bolts. Some of the most popular pistons are Diamond, Manley, or Gibtec 2618 forgings. Diamond and Manley are simple off the shelf, and Gibtec can be 100% tailored to your needs.

As far as sourcing, I recommend shopping around. I did. The rods can usually be found used as they are 03/04 Cobra factory pieces. For sourcing the parts, see if your machine shop can order them. I ended up ordering a lot of parts from my machine shop. They were actually the cheapest and often will cut you a break since they've already got you for machine work anyway.

I do agree that a blower/longtube car sounds amazing. I was very pleased with my last setup.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for the replies.

I definetly dont mind the car being down. I'm not driving it right now anyways since shes got a spun crank rod bearing. Figured now is the best time for the overhaul.

I picked up a Lincoln Mark 8 motor and will be using the aluminum Teskid block from that. I'm debating on either the 03 cobra heads or going and getting a set of 04 cobra heads which I found on ebay. They will end up being more then the 03 heads after shipping, but may be worth it since they are supposed to have the revised cooling passages to fix the coolant distribution issues with the older heads. I may just go with this option.

As for the crankshaft, the stock 03-04 cobra cranks are sufficient for 1000hp? I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up reaching 1000 hp or close when I'm finished. What are these crankshafts rated for? Should I spend the extra money and get a stronger one?

At the moment I'm going to look for a shop to do the machine work for me and ask them about the piston and rods. I'll leave the decision to them after I let them know my build.

What fuel delivery system is recommended for this setup? At the moment I have whatever is in a stock 01 cobra and I'm sure it will need to be upgraded. Also what size injectors should I be looking for?

Edit: I'll also have to see if the machine shop can do all the port work for me as well. Hopefully I can find someone who can get me the parts and machine work I need at the same time ;)
 
#11 ·
The 04 heads are a nice upgrade with the cooling revision and extra spark plug threads.

The modular forged cranks in general are extremely tough. There aren't a lot of guys making over 1000hp so data is pretty scarce, but I can't think of any forged crank failures that weren't blower drive related. The only ones available stronger than that are straight up billet, and they are $$$.

For fuel you have a lot of options. Since it will depend on your fuel and power goals, search some of the injector calculators available online. That will give you an idea of what size injectors you'll need. Generally for gasoline you're going to be looking at 105lb/hr/1000cc/min or larger. E85 requires even larger.

The fuel supply system is another debate. Generally if you're going that big you'll want to go return. Which is going to involve a lot of plumbing (-10 supply, -8 return), rails, fittings, and a regulator. You can opt for a baffled tank with dual or triple internal pumps, or a sumped tank with a big single or dual external pumps. Each has its advantages/disadvantages. Internal is a little more pricey and tougher to access, but keeps the pumps cooler. External is cheaper and easy, but you have to be conscious of heat and it may be noisier. There's all kinds of pumps available; Walbro, Aeromotive, Fuelab, and Magnafuel. Just make sure they're return style pumps, and look at their spec sheet to ensure they supply enough flow rate at the desired pressure (max flow @ (boost + base injector pressure)). I could go on about how to design a fuel system, but that's just for starters.
 
#12 ·
Update!!!

I found out something pretty cool today!

So turns out after a little research and looking around I found out the block in my 2001 Cobra is actually a Teskid Block instead of the WAP block. Apparently there are quite a few 99-01 cobras with these blocks and its less common in the 01 Cobras. Lucky for me this means I'll just be using my block because, why not lol. I'll be returning the block I purchased since it was from a buddy anyway and he said he will take it back so that saved me a few hundred bucks ;)

I do have a few concerns however. I heard that to use the Teskid block and still use a blower, you will need to machine the knock sensors off of the Teskid block so that the 03-04 Cobra lower intake will seat properly. Not to mention if I am to use an 03-04 Cobra Timing cover, one of the bolts will not line up and I will either have to cover it with RTV sealer or drill and tap my own hole for a bolt. I was wondering, are the knock sensors required on Cobras? I don't want to have any check engine lights. I hear there is a way to still use knock sensors however you have to buy aftermarket sensors. Anyone know where I can find these?

Another question is the heads I have decided to purchase have some damage on the cam towers. Apparently a competent machine shop can easily fix them using cam tower inserts. I guess there like bearings that get put in place after the damage is machined out. According to what I read only some shops can do this since it requires a special tool to do and make the a groove in the tower so the bearings don't spin. If I go this route, approximately how much will this cost and will it be reliable enough to handle high HP? Since I'm getting the heads ported and polished anyways I figured I would get this done at the same time. The heads after shipping and import fees will cost $410. Is it worth it? Or should I just look for heads in good shape. It comes with everything including the valve springs and cams however I'll be changing those anyways. I cant seem to find 04 heads for a good price. They're all $1500 or more.

I also am on the lookout for an 03-04 cobra crank. I'm not sure if I'm just tired and not looking around properly or if there is nothing out there right now. I remember checking a while ago and I found a ton of them for sale. Now I can't even seem to find one. Can anyone send me a link to one priced well? The better the deal the better lol
 
#13 ·
There's tons of 03/04 setup cars running Teksid blocks. Mine is. RTV over one of the bolt holes is nothing. I ground down the knock sensors. I don't think it will trigger any fault codes, but if you have to, you can just relocate them to another boss. No big deal.

Cam tower bearings are ridiculously expensive from what I've heard. Unless they're very expensive race prepped heads, it probably isn't worth it. I would look for some new heads that aren't warped. Look for the same heads from different models to avoid the "Cobra" tax; Lincoln Aviators and Mercury Marauders used the exact same heads. If not, your early revision heads are still pretty damn good. Just keep in mind the Navigator has slightly different ports.

It looks like Eagle more or less has the market cornered on forged cranks. You can source them from Summit, Modmax, or MHS even has complete rotating assembly packages. MMR also offers a Manley/MMR forged crank. I tend to stay away from Eagle with some of the issues I've seen on their 302 cranks, but I don't know enough running their 4.6 to have a good feel.

Honestly though I forgot you were in Ontario. You should take a short trip over to Woodstock and see Sean Hyland Motorsports. Sean literally wrote the book on building high power modular engines. I highly recommend his book. I got it and used it thoroughly during my build. I bet you could head on over there, talk to them, get a package deal and be set without having to worry about any importing!

...and for that little tip all you have to do is send me a case of that wonderful Rockstar and vodka you crazy canucks have at the LCBO. ****, if you can get me an R32 I'll build your engine for you.
 
#14 ·
Really? I read somewhere that the cost isn't too high. About $100 per cam. The bearings may be on top of that. However I have been getting different information about who can actually get the job done. Some say its hard to find someone able to do it while others say most machine shops can since they run into these things all the time. The sleeves apparently are not hard to find either.

The part can be found here:

Interactive Parts Look-Up System

You just have to do a quick search of the vehicle make and model. I put in 2004 Ford Mustang Cobra and found the F-5 cam bearings are what I'm looking for. However I have not found a price.

Seems like I'm going to have to keep my eye out for a crank. Or I might just go ahead and get a whole new rotating assembly. Haven't decided yet. I may leave that to a professional engine builder to decide.

Honestly I had no idea about Sean from Sean Hyland Motorsports. I'm actually heading over to Woodstock later this week to pick up some parts for some of my other projects. I'll definitely pay him a visit and pick at him for answers. Maybe he can even find me someone to fix these heads. I would be more then happy to source all my parts from him and even have him do some of the motor work for me.

That being said, what heads are the same as the 04 cobra heads? Do the navigators or other ford motors have the exact same ones? I thought there were slight variances between them and figured the Cobra heads would be built for better cooling and performance. I prefer to stick with 04 cobra heads even if the gains are small compared to other ones. I'm the kind of person who will be thinking about that the entire time as something I could have made better when everything's together and I will want to change it lol. So I might as well do it now.

And yea I'll definitely send you over anything you need as a thank you ;) You've been a big help. Although I'm not sure how exporting liquor will go. I hear the US border is pretty strict about that. And I've definitely never shipped any lol.
 
#15 ·
I would call around and see who is willing to do the cam repair procedure. If you go the bearing route you're looking at the cost of a line hone, machining (for the tang insert), and the bearing shells. That could easily add up to $300 or more per head, which could exceed the value of the head. I had forgotten about another option; some just build up the journals as necessary by adding material via TIG, then line hone it. That decreases cost a little, but still can be pretty pricey. Call around and see what shops in your area will do.

Another point to ask over at SHM: they offer built short and longblocks. The shortblocks may come very close to the cost of materials, so that could be a more cost and time effective solution. Building an engine does take quite a bit of time, even if you're experienced.

As I said above, the Lincoln Aviator and Mercury Marauder cylinder heads are the same as the 03+ Cobra, and the Navigator (5.4) heads have slightly different ports.

Don't get too caught up, because there's always more that you could do. At some point you have to just go with it. I thought I built mine overkill but I'm already thinking of a TH400, tube front end, and billet I-beams. You'll always want more.
 
#16 ·
Out of the Lincoln aviator and marauder cylinder heads which ones are the same as the 04 cobra heads with the revised cooling passages and extra spark plug threads? I may just go down that route of they truly are the same. Also are the cobra heads aluminum? Are the Lincoln and Mercury heads also aluminum?

Also what years should I be looking for to find these heads in both cars?

I'll be making a few calls today to find out who can do the repairs.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top