[NeverEnuff]

OH and just a heads up, to anyone who is thinking Big Bore in an alum block. The prices for installing Dry Sleeves in it have gone down quite a bit. I was quoted 1800+shipping there and back about 1.5 years ago. I called Modular Performance and talked to Mike and he quoted me 1400+the ride there and back. Even with shipping it is still cheaper than the 5.0 FRPP block, AND is lighter...AND will still handle A LOT of power!

[SWEET2KSTANG]

Originally Posted by NeverEnuff Even with shipping it is still cheaper than the 5.0 FRPP block, AND is lighter...AND will still handle A LOT of power!

sleeving a block takes away a lot of its strengths because of the structure of the block. i have a block sitting here that me and machist have talked about trying a sleeve kit on. the block will be weakened no matter if you did the teksid or WAP, because of the process of doing it. with buying a cast block, there are less worries about leaks as well compared to a sleeved block. the weight difference from an iron block to an aluminum block is not a huge deal unless you are looking to shave every pound possible, there is no advantage is a regular street car.

[NeverEnuff]

^

Ok, so when NAZ made 459rwhp on motor with his alum big bore, and then sprayed it to well over 600-650rwhp, it had problems when he pulled it apart to do his turbo build...and sold it?


*Cricket, Cricket*

Thats right...he didn't...


I don't know about that statement. Sleeving is a common practice, but for most N/A street cars even with juice or boost, the alum block will be fine, period. If you are shooting for 1000hp...yeah, I would be weary, but the big bore alum piece has been tested and works.

Ill let you know when you can tell me Im right when I spray the shit out of my Big BOre and have no problems...

Besides...the 5.4 has more stress on the walls than a 4.6 cause of the increased stroke and rod length. Longer the rod and shorter the stroke helps keep sidewall pressure down...Im sure you knew that already.

Edit:.

Another factor that the alum sleeved is better than steel is casting flaws. The cyl walls aren't the exact same thickness from top to bottom like the sleeves are. Find a weak/thin spot in the cast block and bye bye motor...

[SWEET2KSTANG]

600-650 is WAP limits stock, me and machinist dont really want to push one past 600. 650 is more than i would want to push wether it is a teksid or WAP blcok. sleeving is a common practice, i never said it wasnt. sleeving the 4.6 is not the most common thing and there are a few reveiws about it and some issues some people have had. if built up hard, a big bore 4.6 deck height block is capable of getting to the 500+rwhp mark n/a.

[NeverEnuff]

Ive done well over 650 in my WAP block with my turbos. Still running great. Leakdown good, Compression test good, no noises. Even after a rough day at the track with 2-3 more psi, 6-7* more of timing and 10s in full weight, it is still going strong, So your 'theory' is wrong, and my machinest told me I won't have to worry about that block, or even my 'cast crank'. THe modular ALUM block is stronger than you think, I know of plenty others clearing 600rwhp in a WAP block, some in the 800hp range.

Hell just call Jim Cushman and ask him about his 4.6 WAP block 1400hp Turbo setup...

I think you are relying more on hearsay than actual data and hard facts. I have PROVEN it and so have others...

Also...if the alum block was so weak, why would Ford put one in the GT? ANd we all know how much power 'Joes TT GT' made...

[blackstang2004]

i dont think people get that the boss 5.0 block it a different block. Ford Racing Performance Parts [M-6010-BOSS50*]. the cly walls look fine to me on it?

[ModMustang97GT]

You are aware that the absolute best blocks out there are the ones with Darton Sleeves correct? You are damaging the block to put in the sleeves, but you fix it when you put the sleeves in, and the sleeves are hardened custom pieces, made out of metal that you could not manufacture a block out of without it getting VERY expensive. Look at MMR's highest boost option. its a sleeved block. The bottom line is, a sleeved motor is stronger than even the cobra blocks. Of course with shitty work and crappy quality sleeves, you are still F'd, but you are F'd with any shitty work done in your engine. The very best blocks are always sleeved. You just want different qualities for the cylinder walls than you do the rest of the block. There is a reason F1 cars have diamond graphite infused sleeves installed in their cylinder walls and aluminum blocks around them.

[HBK_2007]

and all commerical/agriculural diesel engines are sleeved

[limited]

The teksid and wap are also sleeved ....stock.(they don't have alum. cyl walls) and they will hold all the power you throw at them,1500hp+. and anytime you can loose weight off the already heavy nose of our cars the better

[00gtCoolGuy]

great thread. some good info in here.


why aren't more people running that boss5.0 block, what kinds of numbers would someone be looking at if they wanted to build an n/a street monster with that block, given some good heads and cams? and anyone have a link where you can buy the block?

[SWEET2KSTANG]

Originally Posted by NeverEnuff Ive done well over 650 in my WAP block with my turbos. Still running great. Leakdown good, Compression test good, no noises. Even after a rough day at the track with 2-3 more psi, 6-7* more of timing and 10s in full weight, it is still going strong, So your 'theory' is wrong, and my machinest told me I won't have to worry about that block, or even my 'cast crank'. THe modular ALUM block is stronger than you think, I know of plenty others clearing 600rwhp in a WAP block, some in the 800hp range. Hell just call Jim Cushman and ask him about his 4.6 WAP block 1400hp Turbo setup... I think you are relying more on hearsay than actual data and hard facts. I have PROVEN it and so have others... Also...if the alum block was so weak, why would Ford put one in the GT? ANd we all know how much power 'Joes TT GT' made...

i never said the WAP is a weak block, nor did i say they arent able to push past 600rwhp. its a proven fact that they are weaker than the teksid block and the iron block. the block will start to be pushed hard at theos power levels and can be damaged. when a power adder is put on top of a lot of power, warping of sleeves and strees on the block can occur. the 3v gt's are aluminum blocks and a lot of them have been split at 650rwhp, and some take a little more. the cast crank is stong, 650rwhp is a common thing for the cranks to be able to take, they can take a lot more if they are worked on and treated as well. the gt block is not the same as the block in the mustang gt either, nor is the cammer block. you think i go off hear say??? i build my own motors, push every motor i build and use, able to do my own machining, run power adders, been around a lot of hard pushed car, etc. i dont go off hear say, if i did i, i would never even think about working on any car.

Originally Posted by ModMustang97GT You are aware that the absolute best blocks out there are the ones with Darton Sleeves correct? You are damaging the block to put in the sleeves, but you fix it when you put the sleeves in, and the sleeves are hardened custom pieces, made out of metal that you could not manufacture a block out of without it getting VERY expensive. Look at MMR's highest boost option. its a sleeved block. The bottom line is, a sleeved motor is stronger than even the cobra blocks. Of course with shitty work and crappy quality sleeves, you are still F'd, but you are F'd with any shitty work done in your engine. The very best blocks are always sleeved. You just want different qualities for the cylinder walls than you do the rest of the block. There is a reason F1 cars have diamond graphite infused sleeves installed in their cylinder walls and aluminum blocks around them.

when you do a sleeve kit on a 4.6 to a big bore sleeve, it weakens it no matter how they are installed. the block can go under futher work to get structrual strength back and withstand huger power, but just throwing in a set of sleeves is not going to put it back to full strength. why do you think there are no repair sleeves for the 4.6??? the work and strenght to get them back to where they originally were is comprimised.

[ModMustang97GT]

Originally Posted by SWEET2KSTANG when you do a sleeve kit on a 4.6 to a big bore sleeve, it weakens it no matter how they are installed. the block can go under futher work to get structrual strength back and withstand huger power, but just throwing in a set of sleeves is not going to put it back to full strength. why do you think there are no repair sleeves for the 4.6??? the work and strenght to get them back to where they originally were is comprimised.

I disagree on the repair aspect. I don't think it is a question of being able to repair the block. So long as the bottom half and everything is aligned still you can fix just about any cylinder wall problems with sleeves. The issue is more likely that it will cost $1500 to get them installed and you can buy a new cobra block for $450 or an aluminum one for $800. Sleeving is not cost effective as a repair option. It is however a good option when you are pushing the 25 PSI limit of a non sleeved 4.6 or 5.4 block.

[SWEET2KSTANG]

that has been pushed plenty on an iron block and teksid blocks as well. a big bore block can be made rigid again, but takes a little work. the top of the deck is all missing when being prepped for sleeving, the sleeves are put in and are made to support each other. i personally would push the living crap out of a sleeved block unless i prepped the block for the abuse.

[NeverEnuff]

Originally Posted by SWEET2KSTANG i never said the WAP is a weak block, nor did i say they arent able to push past 600rwhp. its a proven fact that they are weaker than the teksid block and the iron block. the block will start to be pushed hard at theos power levels and can be damaged. when a power adder is put on top of a lot of power, warping of sleeves and strees on the block can occur. the 3v gt's are aluminum blocks and a lot of them have been split at 650rwhp, and some take a little more. the cast crank is stong, 650rwhp is a common thing for the cranks to be able to take, they can take a lot more if they are worked on and treated as well. the gt block is not the same as the block in the mustang gt either, nor is the cammer block. you think i go off hear say??? i build my own motors, push every motor i build and use, able to do my own machining, run power adders, been around a lot of hard pushed car, etc. i dont go off hear say, if i did i, i would never even think about working on any car. when you do a sleeve kit on a 4.6 to a big bore sleeve, it weakens it no matter how they are installed. the block can go under futher work to get structrual strength back and withstand huger power, but just throwing in a set of sleeves is not going to put it back to full strength. why do you think there are no repair sleeves for the 4.6??? the work and strenght to get them back to where they originally were is comprimised.

Its funny how you mention the 3V GT blocks split at 650rwhp...cause they are 'supposed' to be the strongest 4.6 alum block and I have yet to see one split.

Funny thing is I do all my own stuff too, as well as machining too. I don't have my OWN stuff, but I sit there and help and do as much as I can. I am no idiot either...but your comments are wrong saying those blocks can't handle power is just wrong. They can and do...period.

[SWEET2KSTANG]

i did not say they all split at 650, i said a lot of them have. they arent the "stongest", no where near the stongest aluminum block. i dont know where the hell you got that info, but you are wrong.

you bring up the gt supercar having an aluminum block as well, that block is different; the cammer as well. those blocks are of totally different castings, etc.

joe's tt gt, imo is a big expensive piece of shit!!!

[NeverEnuff]

Originally Posted by SWEET2KSTANG i did not say they all split at 650, i said a lot of them have. they arent the "stongest", no where near the stongest aluminum block. i dont know where the hell you got that info, but you are wrong. you bring up the gt supercar having an aluminum block as well, that block is different; the cammer as well. those blocks are of totally different castings, etc. joe's tt gt, imo is a big expensive piece of shit!!!

Look at my 'quotes'. lol. I said 'strongest'...lol. didn't mean I agree'd with it. And don't call me wrong...I NEVER stated a 'wrong' idea... And Joes car handled the power...period. Just like all the other WAP owners I know.

[SWEET2KSTANG]

and i have a WAP block that had 60k on it, only 1 bottle ran, and cylinders that had to be bored .030 because of the distortion. it now will probably become a big bore block one of these days when i get enough time to work on my own projects again, but that may be a while.

[NeverEnuff]

^ ill let you know what my bores look like before I ship it for sleeves...