trick flow 2v heads FTMFW!!!

SWEET2KSTANG · November 6th, 2008, 12:04 AM

its not the motor holding back from turning those rpm's, its the induction. if you had a h/c/i combo that would breathe that high, the stock rotating assembly will do it.

DiZzyBonne · November 6th, 2008, 12:12 AM

Okay, so that answers one of my questions. My other one was, with those heads flowing at say 240 CFM, will my low end torque under 4,000 RPMs still be better than a 4v's under 4,000 RPMs?

My last question was what would the difference be. power-wise, between a 2v and 4v motor if both were pushing 240 CFM, besides the obvious 16 valve difference?

drazga97 · November 6th, 2008, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by drazga97

cobras are DOHC as where ours are SOHC. then they obviously have twice the valves thats about all i can help you with.

repeating myself

SWEET2KSTANG · November 6th, 2008, 12:14 AM

depends on set up. both heads will have their pros and cons, both will give different results under different circumstances. these heads havent even had any chance for review, test, etc as of yet.

DiZzyBonne · November 6th, 2008, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by drazga97

Originally Posted by drazga97

cobras are DOHC as where ours are SOHC. then they obviously have twice the valves thats about all i can help you with.

repeating myself

Well I meant power-wise, but somebody else already answered the question. He said all things the same, including CFM, the 4v heads will be a little better simply because of design. So assuming both were at 300 CFM - I know, just bare with me - they'll be roughly the same in power, but the 4v heads have a different design so they will be a little better.

The reason I was wondering was because I didn't know if there would be any reason to want a 4v motor if you could have 2v heads flowing just as good.

The other thing I asked was right now you see 4v motors running the best 1/4 mile time. With these new heads, assuming you can get them to flow as good as ported 4v heads, would the 2v motors have the potential to run with them? The answer was yes, but once again, that's assuming you can get them to flow that good.

My conclusion:

The difference between a 2v and a 4v engine is the heads, obviously, and if you can get 2v heads to flow as good as 4v heads, there should be no need for a 4v engine swap. But once again, 4v heads will ALWAYS outflow 2v heads, and they have an overall better design, especially because there's two more valves to help with its breathing.

Correct my conclusion if I'm wrong, thanks.

BlckBullitt01 · November 6th, 2008, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by DiZzyBonne

Well I meant power-wise, but somebody else already answered the question. He said all things the same, including CFM, the 4v heads will be a little better simply because of design. So assuming both were at 300 CFM - I know, just bare with me - they'll be roughly the same in power, but the 4v heads have a different design so they will be a little better.

The reason I was wondering was because I didn't know if there would be any reason to want a 4v motor if you could have 2v heads flowing just as good.

The other thing I asked was right now you see 4v motors running the best 1/4 mile time. With these new heads, assuming you can get them to flow as good as ported 4v heads, would the 2v motors have the potential to run with them? The answer was yes, but once again, that's assuming you can get them to flow that good.

My conclusion:

The difference between a 2v and a 4v engine is the heads, obviously, and if you can get 2v heads to flow as good as 4v heads, there should be no need for a 4v engine swap. But once again, 4v heads will ALWAYS outflow 2v heads, and they have an overall better design, especially because there's two more valves to help with its breathing.

Correct my conclusion if I'm wrong, thanks.

Theoretically, 4V heads will always have potential to flow better than 2V heads since there is only so much air you can cram through 1 valve.

However, I don't really keep up to date with whats going on in the 4V world (so this might be wrong), but these heads are going to give us a nice little jump over the 4V's.

LSWONGTO · November 6th, 2008, 03:25 PM

Guys Im sure that these TFS heads will be better than 98% of the competion. Look at my dyno sheet with my new TFS and a ported fast vs stock 243 heads. 243 heads are the best factory LS1/2 heads. Well here is the graph and I have a small cam.

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachm...3&d=1225308647

and here is a vid so ya'll belive me that its a small cam.
YouTube - GTO Dyno Pull

sgrcltpunk · November 6th, 2008, 04:51 PM

wont they have issues since the intake valve has been moved to the other side of the head

ModMustang97GT · November 6th, 2008, 06:59 PM

Just so people are aware. The number of valves is 100% inconsequential to the flow of the heads. In the case of our mustangs, the 4v's are a better design than the 2v's. However, most Big Blocks use 2V head designs. While it seems to make sense to say more Valves = More Flow. That is once again just the flaw of big numbers = big power. It is all the design. If you have only 2 paths for the air to follow, and the path is optimum, your flow will be better. The true most efficient system you could have would be to have 1 valve and it would do one and then magically the other. This way you would have perfect efficiency of flow. The problem is, thats impossible. The point is, don't think that 4v means more flow ALWAYS. It is true in our cars now, but not necessarily forever.

As a reference there are heads made for our cars that are a perfected version of the ones NASCAR's use. They flow something like 800cfm at .55" of lift. They cost like $8k a set but they are like the best you can buy. And yes, they are 2V. Keep that in mind, flow is what matters not the number of ports.

DiZzyBonne · November 6th, 2008, 07:10 PM

...where can I find these magican 2v Mustang heads flowing at 800 CFM? Links?

Novanutcase · November 6th, 2008, 07:17 PM

Also, keep in mind that more flow isn't always better for performance. There are a lot of guys running heads that don't flow as much as another yet they blow doors!

John

jivepepper · November 6th, 2008, 08:12 PM

I'm just pissed they didn't announce these just 6 months ago. I might have actually paid the extra money for them.

superbeef1000 · November 6th, 2008, 09:23 PM

i will be selling a portion of my liver to buy a set of theese head i cant wait

SilverFreakGT · November 7th, 2008, 01:00 AM

Looks like good times =) These with a nice cam seem like a viable N/A option finally. I don't wanna reduce the life of my engine with a blower. And on a side note my GT doesn't stop pulling at 5,800. I have heard so many people say this. I have two good friends with Machs and my little 2V pulls nearly as hard at the top. Obviously the 4V has more power overall but it's not as significant as I hear a lot of other people saying. I have never dyno'ed or tracked my car but the mach I drove dyno'ed 305 and it is def a bit quicker but he has a real hard time showing me his tails. Is my car a freak? I have never driven another 99-04 GT. I did stay neck in neck with my other friends S197 as well. I just wish it rev'ed ot to 7K like the mach...=)

RyanGT · November 7th, 2008, 01:52 AM

A stock or mostly stock gt stops making power at about 5800. It still pulls but it is now out of the power band. Your car is doing good probably because of the 4.10's which help a lot. Is your buddys mach stock?

And power is power. 100 hp from heads and cams will stress the motor the same as from a blower. The more power the more wear.

JohnC · November 7th, 2008, 01:57 AM

Sweet!

MATT02GT · November 7th, 2008, 04:30 AM

I saw these heads in person at Sema this week. Seem pretty impressive, Ill post pics later. Seem to be the best desgin Ive seen, and I saw thier new intake for the 2V also.

sgrcltpunk · November 7th, 2008, 09:03 AM

again would there be an issue with the intake valve being on the other side of the cam shaft from what it usually is

SWEET2KSTANG · November 7th, 2008, 09:08 AM

supposedly, not suppose to be. all stock hardware is suppose to work just fine.

sgrcltpunk · November 7th, 2008, 09:21 AM

i mean the cams only spin in one direction and it looks (to me )like it wouldn't work

November 6th, 2008, 12:04 AM	#41
SWEET2KSTANG mm's nitrous mod 2000 mustang gt 11.79@115.83 (old set up) Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: N.W. AR Posts: 12,430 iTrader: 8 reviews	its not the motor holding back from turning those rpm's, its the induction. if you had a h/c/i combo that would breathe that high, the stock rotating assembly will do it. __________________ project warhorse under construction being built by MP2 Performance

November 6th, 2008, 12:12 AM	#42
DiZzyBonne Enthusiast 2001 Ford Mustang Bullitt Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bay Area Posts: 933 iTrader: 2 reviews	Okay, so that answers one of my questions. My other one was, with those heads flowing at say 240 CFM, will my low end torque under 4,000 RPMs still be better than a 4v's under 4,000 RPMs? My last question was what would the difference be. power-wise, between a 2v and 4v motor if both were pushing 240 CFM, besides the obvious 16 valve difference? __________________ Current mods: Maximum Motorsports XL Full Length Subframe Connectors Catted Bassani X-Pipe Borla Stinger Catbacks H&R Super Sport Springs MM Bullitt Crew Founder and Member #1

November 6th, 2008, 12:14 AM	#44
SWEET2KSTANG mm's nitrous mod 2000 mustang gt 11.79@115.83 (old set up) Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: N.W. AR Posts: 12,430 iTrader: 8 reviews	depends on set up. both heads will have their pros and cons, both will give different results under different circumstances. these heads havent even had any chance for review, test, etc as of yet. __________________ project warhorse under construction being built by MP2 Performance

November 6th, 2008, 03:25 PM	#47
LSWONGTO Regular Heads/Cam/N2? Come get some!! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dela where?/ South carolina Posts: 233 iTrader: 0 reviews	Guys Im sure that these TFS heads will be better than 98% of the competion. Look at my dyno sheet with my new TFS and a ported fast vs stock 243 heads. 243 heads are the best factory LS1/2 heads. Well here is the graph and I have a small cam. http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachm...3&d=1225308647 and here is a vid so ya'll belive me that its a small cam. YouTube - GTO Dyno Pull __________________ Heads/Cam/Maggie 122@8PSI = 364rwhp/402rwtq

November 6th, 2008, 04:51 PM	#48
sgrcltpunk amateur adult film star 1999 gt to infinity and beyond Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: newport news,va Posts: 1,059 iTrader: 0 reviews	wont they have issues since the intake valve has been moved to the other side of the head __________________ performance headlight fluid, 6 ball muffler bearings, and dual flux capacitors

November 6th, 2008, 06:59 PM	#49
ModMustang97GT Hardcore Enthusiast 1997 Mustang GT Faster than an s4 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,598 iTrader: 0 reviews	Just so people are aware. The number of valves is 100% inconsequential to the flow of the heads. In the case of our mustangs, the 4v's are a better design than the 2v's. However, most Big Blocks use 2V head designs. While it seems to make sense to say more Valves = More Flow. That is once again just the flaw of big numbers = big power. It is all the design. If you have only 2 paths for the air to follow, and the path is optimum, your flow will be better. The true most efficient system you could have would be to have 1 valve and it would do one and then magically the other. This way you would have perfect efficiency of flow. The problem is, thats impossible. The point is, don't think that 4v means more flow ALWAYS. It is true in our cars now, but not necessarily forever. As a reference there are heads made for our cars that are a perfected version of the ones NASCAR's use. They flow something like 800cfm at .55" of lift. They cost like $8k a set but they are like the best you can buy. And yes, they are 2V. Keep that in mind, flow is what matters not the number of ports. __________________ Aztec Gold 97GT. MM CC Plates, Panhard Bar, SFC's & Tower Brace Eibach Sway Bars H&R Race Springs/Bilstein Shocks MAC CAI, LT's, Catted H and Pro-Dumps KB Boost-a-Spark 04' PI Motor Author of The Official Suspension Guide

November 6th, 2008, 07:10 PM	#50
DiZzyBonne Enthusiast 2001 Ford Mustang Bullitt Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bay Area Posts: 933 iTrader: 2 reviews	...where can I find these magican 2v Mustang heads flowing at 800 CFM? Links? __________________ Current mods: Maximum Motorsports XL Full Length Subframe Connectors Catted Bassani X-Pipe Borla Stinger Catbacks H&R Super Sport Springs MM Bullitt Crew Founder and Member #1

November 6th, 2008, 07:17 PM	#51
Novanutcase Hardcore Enthusiast 2003 GT Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 1,042 iTrader: 0 reviews	Also, keep in mind that more flow isn't always better for performance. There are a lot of guys running heads that don't flow as much as another yet they blow doors! John __________________ SOLD - '03 GT, Max Moto Max Grip Box, Wilwood SL 6 front/DL4 rear Big Brake Kit, Corbeau Seats, MGW Short Shifter, MAC Long Tube Headers/Prochamber mid/ Flowmaster 40, FRPP 4.10, TrickFlow Diff Cover/75mm TB/Plenum, Eaton Posi, Moser 31 spl Axles

November 6th, 2008, 08:12 PM	#52
jivepepper MM Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Under a sombrero Posts: 4,556 iTrader: 1 reviews	I'm just pissed they didn't announce these just 6 months ago. I might have actually paid the extra money for them. __________________ 2000 GT 665/540rwhp/rwtq On pump gas Best 1/4 638hp street tune 11.01, best trap 134MPH, 80*+day, 10.5" DD Cobra R's & 315/35/17 DR'S DYNO VID ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9uOS732mdA

November 6th, 2008, 09:23 PM	#53
superbeef1000 Hardcore Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: mesa , arizona Posts: 1,475 iTrader: 2 reviews	i will be selling a portion of my liver to buy a set of theese head i cant wait __________________ a bunch of stuff to make my car faster http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...e-member-1497/

November 7th, 2008, 01:00 AM	#54
SilverFreakGT Regular 2000 Mustang GT not yet captured Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Orange County Posts: 176 iTrader: 0 reviews	Looks like good times =) These with a nice cam seem like a viable N/A option finally. I don't wanna reduce the life of my engine with a blower. And on a side note my GT doesn't stop pulling at 5,800. I have heard so many people say this. I have two good friends with Machs and my little 2V pulls nearly as hard at the top. Obviously the 4V has more power overall but it's not as significant as I hear a lot of other people saying. I have never dyno'ed or tracked my car but the mach I drove dyno'ed 305 and it is def a bit quicker but he has a real hard time showing me his tails. Is my car a freak? I have never driven another 99-04 GT. I did stay neck in neck with my other friends S197 as well. I just wish it rev'ed ot to 7K like the mach...=) __________________ 2000 Mustang GT Silver on charcoal MMR Coilover kit, FRPP 4:10's, SCT box tune, FRPP King Cobra Clutch, Steeda quick release quadrant on FRPP cable, MGW shifter, K/N cold air intake, Flowmaster exhaust [SIGPIC]

November 7th, 2008, 01:52 AM	#55
RyanGT MM Fanatic 2000 GT Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Lynnwood, Washington Posts: 4,258 iTrader: 4 reviews	A stock or mostly stock gt stops making power at about 5800. It still pulls but it is now out of the power band. Your car is doing good probably because of the 4.10's which help a lot. Is your buddys mach stock? And power is power. 100 hp from heads and cams will stress the motor the same as from a blower. The more power the more wear. __________________ 2000 Black convertible GT: KB 15psi, and other goodies... 1971 Datsun 240 z: Header and rebuilt motor. (The DD)

November 7th, 2008, 01:57 AM	#56
JohnC Enthusiast 1997 Mustang GT 13.56@102.94 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Murfreesboro and Old Hickory, TN Posts: 722 iTrader: 1 reviews	Sweet! __________________ 1997 Mustang GT Aluminum Block PI swap & 4R70W to TR3550 swapped. Best 1/8: 2.04 60ft 8.74@81.85 & Best 1/4: 2.045 60ft 13.56@102.94 all on stock 245-17's My Garage

November 7th, 2008, 04:30 AM	#57
MATT02GT MM Fanatic Join Date: May 2007 Location: Colo. Springs, CO Posts: 3,697 iTrader: 0 reviews	I saw these heads in person at Sema this week. Seem pretty impressive, Ill post pics later. Seem to be the best desgin Ive seen, and I saw thier new intake for the 2V also. __________________ Its not how fast you drive, but how you drive fast. 2002 Mustang GT... Just The Usual Bolt-Ons Bolt on list in Garage..

November 7th, 2008, 09:03 AM	#58
sgrcltpunk amateur adult film star 1999 gt to infinity and beyond Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: newport news,va Posts: 1,059 iTrader: 0 reviews	again would there be an issue with the intake valve being on the other side of the cam shaft from what it usually is __________________ performance headlight fluid, 6 ball muffler bearings, and dual flux capacitors

November 7th, 2008, 09:08 AM	#59
SWEET2KSTANG mm's nitrous mod 2000 mustang gt 11.79@115.83 (old set up) Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: N.W. AR Posts: 12,430 iTrader: 8 reviews	supposedly, not suppose to be. all stock hardware is suppose to work just fine. __________________ project warhorse under construction being built by MP2 Performance

November 7th, 2008, 09:21 AM	#60
sgrcltpunk amateur adult film star 1999 gt to infinity and beyond Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: newport news,va Posts: 1,059 iTrader: 0 reviews	i mean the cams only spin in one direction and it looks (to me )like it wouldn't work __________________ performance headlight fluid, 6 ball muffler bearings, and dual flux capacitors

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