[Ciderbarrel]

Like I said, I'm totally new to Autocrossing. I only know about it from reading about it here in this forum.

On 7/10 and 7/17 @ FedEx Field they're having some SCCA solo days and I'm pretty interested in trying it out. I'm in a stock 2005 GT except for CAI and tune and axlebacks. I'm toying around doing it in my stock 2003 Saturn ION-3 only because 1) I've had that since day 1; 2) it's lighter; and 3) I've only had my Mustang since April. I just know how my Saturn handles since it has been my DD for 8 years.

I understand that they do a walk through of the course, especially for novices, but how are the courses? Each place is different and each course is different each time they have an event, I understand that. I have looked up youtube and it seems that it's a mix of slalom, tight turns, high speed lane changes, and short straights. Does that seem to be a good generalization of what a course might look like?

On the 10th, I'm taking the Saturn and I MIGHT give it a go. If it looks fun and/or I actually run it and have fun, I'm thinking of taking the Stang on the 17th.

I don't expect to break any course records or even place in the top 10 of my class, but from what I've seen, this appeals to me more than Drag or Circle racing.

[Smilieboy]

Take the stang. You would be surprised what they can do with a stock suspension. Your first runs (if they allow) should be with a more experienced person so they can show you around the course and even a few pointers. After that, try running by yourself. Overall, go to have fun, find out their schedules, when they have novice schools (most do at some point) and see if anyone knows of any other groups which run events like that.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Ciderbarrel Like I said, I'm totally new to Autocrossing. I only know about it from reading about it here in this forum. On 7/10 and 7/17 @ FedEx Field they're having some SCCA solo days and I'm pretty interested in trying it out. I'm in a stock 2005 GT except for CAI and tune and axlebacks. I'm toying around doing it in my stock 2003 Saturn ION-3 only because 1) I've had that since day 1; 2) it's lighter; and 3) I've only had my Mustang since April. I just know how my Saturn handles since it has been my DD for 8 years. I understand that they do a walk through of the course, especially for novices, but how are the courses? Each place is different and each course is different each time they have an event, I understand that. I have looked up youtube and it seems that it's a mix of slalom, tight turns, high speed lane changes, and short straights. Does that seem to be a good generalization of what a course might look like? On the 10th, I'm taking the Saturn and I MIGHT give it a go. If it looks fun and/or I actually run it and have fun, I'm thinking of taking the Stang on the 17th. I don't expect to break any course records or even place in the top 10 of my class, but from what I've seen, this appeals to me more than Drag or Circle racing.

Take the 'stang, trust me, she'll run! I ran my first event on the 12th of this month. Course looked like:



Mix of slaloms, lane changes, etc. My tips:

1.) Figure out what class you are in. The CAI will pull you out of F-Stock and probably put you in Street Touring. Go look at the rules and see what you can run.

2.) Arrive early. This allows you a couple of things: It will allow you to talk to other drivers, it will allow you to get your tech inspection out of the way when it's not frantic, and it gives you plenty of time to walk the course BEFORE the Novice walk.

3.) Walk the course, a lot. Generally they split the day in half. Each half is called a heat, while one heat is running, the other is working. Between heats they have a break. If you are in the second heat, WALK THE COURSE. I walked the course 4 times during the day. Twice before the Novice walk, the Novice walk, then in between heats as I was in the second heat. Most importantly in the walk, walk the course like you would drive it. If there is a slalom, don't just say "yeah, it's a slalom" and walk on, actually walk the slalom, cut the corners like you would in the car, then go wide if you have to, etc. Try and memorize the course.

4.) Bring sunscreen and USE IT. Apply often or Lobster-itis will ensue.

5.) Bring a tire pressure gauge. Keep track of the air in your tires. As you run the course the tires will heat up. I'm not sure what tires you have on your GT, but I have the KDWS on mine and it was fairly easy to tell where the pressure needed to be at depending on where the "wear" line was on the tread. Lower the pressure so it gets close to using all of the tread in corners. Better yet, don't mess with the pressure, just keep it constant at the recommended running temperature.

6.) Talk to other drivers. Especially talk to other drivers of Mustangs. There will be a lot of them I promise I had the privilege of speaking with Don Knop, a national champion in F-Stock. He gave me some good tips

7.) Empty your car out except the Spare Tire and it's hardware. Pull the floor mats, stuff in the cup holders, anything that is loose. Also clean the car (looks good for the pictures and makes you feel better about the car ). I left my spare tire in my car. The weight in the back end will be important!

8.) Take the first run "easy" and get more aggressive as you approach the last run.

9.) MOST IMPORTANTLY HAVE FUN! Dead serious, HAVE FUN. Meet some new friends, and talk with people. Ask questions about tire pressure, about tire selection, about class rules (if you have any questions), watch how others take their corners and run the course, but HAVE FUN.


It's an addicting hobby! Once you get hooked, you will need to set a goal for the class you plan on running your car in. Be it Street touring, street prepared, Street mod, prepared, whatever, and build your car to that class. Don't build yourself out of the competition by adding something that knocks you into a more aggressive class than you are capable. I'm not saying you wont have fun, but it's not as much fun when you see yourself last in your class!!!!

As for driving tips: The S197 is a good platform when driven hard. It is not without it's faults. Two things to watch out for: Plowing during breaking and cornering. Better to enter the corner slow then to break late and plow through a cone or DNF by failing an obstacle. Lastly, Oversteer. You will most likely be in second gear the entire time, and generally right around the 4000 RPM range which puts you right where the 4.6L 3v has a ton of torque. It is very easy to get the rear end to come out with stock tires. Street tires communicate VERY WELL when traction is about to be lost, and you need to hear the squealing of the tires while cornering to find that limit of when they will and wont and run at that ragged edge all day, but don't push it so far that the back end comes out and you lose control. You will know that limit and if you do lose control, better at an AutoX event then on the street!

Also, don't be surprised if after the first run you are shaking. I was, and BAD. It was a good and hard shake for me, and god it was amazing. I'm already jonesing for the next event on the 24th of July. It's so far away =(

[Ciderbarrel]

Wow, thanks for the help/suggestions.

One reason I'm hesitant about the Mustang is that I will be bumped out of F-class, like you say, and I have only the most minor of mods. I could always de-tune and put back in the stock airbox, but I'm too used to the throttle response My worry is that if I am ST, I will get CRUSHED by the more heavily modified cars.

I'll ask about it when I show up, if I'm ST, then I'm ST, if I'm F, I'm F. Whatever. I want to make a few runs at the very least.

[Destination S197]

I'm gearing up to go and so is my roommate but I'm already out of F-Stock and I haven't made any runs yet. I've got aftermarket wheels with summer tires, tuner with cai and pretty soon will have a pretty nice lowered and better performing suspension. It'll probably suck being at the bottom of whatever class I get put in if I get pushed too far up but I'm just there to enjoy the car, driving the edge.

Just make sure to be familiar with all of the rules, and most of all, if you aren't in the class thats currently running, help out on the track.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Ciderbarrel Wow, thanks for the help/suggestions. One reason I'm hesitant about the Mustang is that I will be bumped out of F-class, like you say, and I have only the most minor of mods. I could always de-tune and put back in the stock airbox, but I'm too used to the throttle response My worry is that if I am ST, I will get CRUSHED by the more heavily modified cars. I'll ask about it when I show up, if I'm ST, then I'm ST, if I'm F, I'm F. Whatever. I want to make a few runs at the very least.

To be honest, the goal is not winning, unless you wish to participate in the nationals tourney. I would go and just have fun and learn the car. It's a GREAT place to learn the limitations of the S197 platform. Who knows, maybe you will end up like me and actually place at your first event. I was third of five, so that made me feel good

Also, you can always build your car once you know it. I've got "plans" for my car as well, but I plan on running the remainder of this season in F-Stock to get to know it better. I probably wont even change tires this season (next season I will if there are any tires left on the thing ). Next season I may run F-stock but with all of the allowable mods, or I may get adventurous and jump to Street Prepared or Street Modified and go balls out. The nice thing is there is no rush Just have fun!

Make sure to have someone remind you that "you've got the bug" when you come back after the first run and you are shaking like crazy

[Smilieboy]

Originally Posted by Whiskey11 To be honest, the goal is not winning, unless you wish to participate in the nationals tourney. I would go and just have fun and learn the car. It's a GREAT place to learn the limitations of the S197 platform. Who knows, maybe you will end up like me and actually place at your first event. I was third of five, so that made me feel good Also, you can always build your car once you know it. I've got "plans" for my car as well, but I plan on running the remainder of this season in F-Stock to get to know it better. I probably wont even change tires this season (next season I will if there are any tires left on the thing ). Next season I may run F-stock but with all of the allowable mods, or I may get adventurous and jump to Street Prepared or Street Modified and go balls out. The nice thing is there is no rush Just have fun! Make sure to have someone remind you that "you've got the bug" when you come back after the first run and you are shaking like crazy

This.

Winning should be the last thing on your mind for at least the first full season. It takes a couple of years to get really competitive, especially if the group(s) you run with have people who have been doing it for a while. Focus on learning the car and how to drive it.

[Ciderbarrel]

My goal isn't to win, but to not come in dead last, lol.

I know I won't place in the fastest 33%, but I don't want to be blown out either.

It looks like tons of fun from the vids I've seen but I know myself. If I place too low, like dead last, that will really discourage me from continuing. I don't have too much money to put into the car just now.

I'm still undecided if I want to take my stock Saturn (H-class, I think. I looked it up last wee) but it would take me a good hour to clean it out, lol. I practically live in that car. My Mustang would take 10 seconds to remove the floor mats and that's it.

I think it will ultimatly be decided as to how lazy I feel the night before and if I feel like cleaning.

Oh, and I have to see if my motorcycle helmet (3/4 face) is Snell approved. It's DOT approved but the rules specifically said it must be Snell approved.

EDIT: It's a HJC CL-31 and there is no mention of Snell. I know places MIGHT have loaner helmets but my head is so big, George Lopez is cracking jokes about how big it is. When I was last fitted at my local motorcycle shop, because none of the helmets they had fit, I measure 25" around, measuring around the forehead, just above the ears. At the time, this was the only brand that had a helmet big enough for me.

EDIT 2: http://www.smf.org/cert says it's Snell approved. I need to print that out, just in case.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Ciderbarrel My goal isn't to win, but to not come in dead last, lol. I know I won't place in the fastest 33%, but I don't want to be blown out either. It looks like tons of fun from the vids I've seen but I know myself. If I place too low, like dead last, that will really discourage me from continuing. I don't have too much money to put into the car just now. I'm still undecided if I want to take my stock Saturn (H-class, I think. I looked it up last wee) but it would take me a good hour to clean it out, lol. I practically live in that car. My Mustang would take 10 seconds to remove the floor mats and that's it. I think it will ultimatly be decided as to how lazy I feel the night before and if I feel like cleaning. Oh, and I have to see if my motorcycle helmet (3/4 face) is Snell approved. It's DOT approved but the rules specifically said it must be Snell approved. EDIT: It's a HJC CL-31 and there is no mention of Snell. I know places MIGHT have loaner helmets but my head is so big, George Lopez is cracking jokes about how big it is. When I was last fitted at my local motorcycle shop, because none of the helmets they had fit, I measure 25" around, measuring around the forehead, just above the ears. At the time, this was the only brand that had a helmet big enough for me. EDIT 2: Snell Foundation - certified helmets says it's Snell approved. I need to print that out, just in case.

It's Snell 2005 approved. You will want to buy a Snell 2010 model soon as I think the SCCA may actually start enforcing the 2010 Helmet rules. Worst case, most SCCA clubs have rental helmets that are either free to use or you pay a small fee. Take an extra 10$ with you just in case.

Take the Mustang already . Seriously, take the Mustang. I'll say it the harsh way, but I mean it with "love": If you think spirited driving or daily driving a car lets you know the limits of it's performance handling, you are mistaken. I do both, probably on the more aggressive side, with my Mustang and my first AutoX was an EYE OPENER on performance. It's worth it! I also think you'll have more fun with the Mustang than the Ion. The Mustang is much more raw and it communicates very well all of it's performance flaws and strengths.

As for placing dead last, I doubt that. Maybe in F-stock if it's just you and a national champion, but if you think about it, you'll place second (even if it's of two ) as well as dead last . There will also be plenty of cars that are much slower around the track than you. If anything, the Ion will only make it worse as it puts you into a potentially slower class than the Mustangs.

[Ciderbarrel]

This sounds odd, but I'd love to run both cars if I had a way of getting both down. My roommate is out of the country right now, so it's can't be done.

I'm gonna take the Stang...I just drive the hell out my my Saturn that I know it's limits. I try to take the same roads the same way with the Stang but because she's sooooo much heavier, I have to take different lines and speeds. There is one valley with a wicked S-curve in my area (Randolph Road between New hampshire and 29 for those in the MD/DC area) that I can take at 80 "safely" on my Yamaha Warrior, 65 in the Saturn but I have to slow down a bit for the Stang and in my two runs, I've had to actually brake on the downhill curve (60 degree or so).

Obviously, familiarity will come with time. I guess this is as good as a time as any!

I was going to run with Traction control off, but I was wondering how you did it? On or off?

[Ciderbarrel]

Originally Posted by Whiskey11 It's Snell 2005 approved. You will want to buy a Snell 2010 model soon as I think the SCCA may actually start enforcing the 2010 Helmet rules. Worst case, most SCCA clubs have rental helmets that are either free to use or you pay a small fee. Take an extra 10$ with you just in case.

I found this on the DC area SCCA faq. I'm good with this helmet until it needs to be replaced, lol.

6. Do I need to wear a helmet?
Yes. Insurance regulations require that all autocross participants wear seatbelts and Snell-approved helmets during all runs. Helmets must either meet the current or two previous Snell standards. These standards change every five years. As a result, helmets with the 2005, 2000, and 1995 Snell standards are currently acceptable. Loaner helmets are available at many autocrosses, including the local WDCR SCCA events.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Ciderbarrel I found this on the DC area SCCA faq. I'm good with this helmet until it needs to be replaced, lol. 6. Do I need to wear a helmet? Yes. Insurance regulations require that all autocross participants wear seatbelts and Snell-approved helmets during all runs. Helmets must either meet the current or two previous Snell standards. These standards change every five years. As a result, helmets with the 2005, 2000, and 1995 Snell standards are currently acceptable. Loaner helmets are available at many autocrosses, including the local WDCR SCCA events.

Wow that's impressive! 1995 approved huh? Madness!

[Ciderbarrel]

Well, I registered. $35 + the $10 weekend pass for $45 total.

I could have gone ESP or STU. STU is full of WRX STi's, and the only other S197s were in ESP, so I went ESP

After 2 full days of registration open, there are 5 cars in ESP. Including my 2005 GT, there is another 05 GT and a 11 GT. There are also 2 Z28s, an 82 and 95.

In a class of 5, so far, coming in last is still respectable, so I can deal with that. I just want to beat at least one of those Camaros

If we don't get at least two more people in our class to register, they will only give 1st and 2nd place awards. We need 7+ people for a 3rd place award.

I'll be in "Afternoon 1", the 3rd of 4 afternoon groups after the Karts and the Ladies, and before "Afternoon 2". I can't wait for Sunday! I'm already excited. I will need to get a fresh tank before then and I'm undecided if I want to run my 89 Bama Preformance tune (since Whisky11 said I'll be in 2nd @ 4000 RPM alot) or my Bama 93 tune. I could order the 93 Preformance tune if you all suggest that.

I can't wait, I'm looking forward to Sunday like it's Christmas day!

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Ciderbarrel Well, I registered. $35 + the $10 weekend pass for $45 total. I could have gone ESP or STU. STU is full of WRX STi's, and the only other S197s were in ESP, so I went ESP After 2 full days of registration open, there are 5 cars in ESP. Including my 2005 GT, there is another 05 GT and a 11 GT. There are also 2 Z28s, an 82 and 95. In a class of 5, so far, coming in last is still respectable, so I can deal with that. I just want to beat at least one of those Camaros If we don't get at least two more people in our class to register, they will only give 1st and 2nd place awards. We need 7+ people for a 3rd place award. I'll be in "Afternoon 1", the 3rd of 4 afternoon groups after the Karts and the Ladies, and before "Afternoon 2". I can't wait for Sunday! I'm already excited. I will need to get a fresh tank before then and I'm undecided if I want to run my 89 Bama Preformance tune (since Whisky11 said I'll be in 2nd @ 4000 RPM alot) or my Bama 93 tune. I could order the 93 Preformance tune if you all suggest that. I can't wait, I'm looking forward to Sunday like it's Christmas day!

I would run it like you've got it now and see how it does. If 93 is plentiful, go for it, but I'm not sure it will be that huge of a gain. In my area the only places to get above 91 Octane are at race tracks and it's not cheap so for me it would be a waste of time. I also wouldn't fill it up all the way if you don't have to. I'm not sure how far of a drive it is, but I was told that my just shy of 3/4 of a tank of gas was slowing me down a bit. I also had an hour drive prior and after it so it was nice to get home with just over a quarter tank of gas.

[Ciderbarrel]

Originally Posted by Whiskey11 I would run it like you've got it now and see how it does. If 93 is plentiful, go for it, but I'm not sure it will be that huge of a gain. In my area the only places to get above 91 Octane are at race tracks and it's not cheap so for me it would be a waste of time. I also wouldn't fill it up all the way if you don't have to. I'm not sure how far of a drive it is, but I was told that my just shy of 3/4 of a tank of gas was slowing me down a bit. I also had an hour drive prior and after it so it was nice to get home with just over a quarter tank of gas.

I have a different problem, most of the stations around me have 87/89/93 as their low/mid/premium grades. I don't feel like wasting gas driving around town trying to find 91. The cheapest 93 in my area is $3.73/gallon (they have 87 for $3.47 at the same station) so I don't mind paying more.

I won't have to drive too far as the stadium is near me in MD, right off the beltway. About 20 miles one way. So that's 2 gallons right there. I feel like I could get away with a half tank, ~7 gallons, of 93 and it won't break my bank.

My one worry is that I have a pretty bad memory, so I am going to plan to arrive at 7am, even though I don't run till after noon, just so I can walk the course 3 or 4 times. That, and so I can watch everyone. My one worry is that I'm going to miss a gate and get DQed.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Ciderbarrel I have a different problem, most of the stations around me have 87/89/93 as their low/mid/premium grades. I don't feel like wasting gas driving around town trying to find 91. The cheapest 93 in my area is $3.73/gallon (they have 87 for $3.47 at the same station) so I don't mind paying more. I won't have to drive too far as the stadium is near me in MD, right off the beltway. About 20 miles one way. So that's 2 gallons right there. I feel like I could get away with a half tank, ~7 gallons, of 93 and it won't break my bank. My one worry is that I have a pretty bad memory, so I am going to plan to arrive at 7am, even though I don't run till after noon, just so I can walk the course 3 or 4 times. That, and so I can watch everyone. My one worry is that I'm going to miss a gate and get DQed.

I thought I'd mess up too, but 4 times was plenty for me. The key is to go over the track in your head as much as you can in your down time. When you are working your corner, watch others, think about how the corner prior to yours was executed and how it will effect each event in your corner. Like I said, when you walk the course, walk it like you'd drive it. You wont forget. They generally are not that complex.

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by Ciderbarrel My one worry is that I'm going to miss a gate and get DQed.

So what if you do? We've all done it time-to-time. It's no biggie

[Ciderbarrel]

Oh, I got another annoying question

What did you all use to put your class/# on your car? I really have no idea what to use. My first thought is to make big block letters with the blue painters tape I have. It would stand out against the mineral gray.

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by Ciderbarrel Oh, I got another annoying question What did you all use to put your class/# on your car? I really have no idea what to use. My first thought is to make big block letters with the blue painters tape I have. It would stand out against the mineral gray.

I just use Window Chalk. Specifically, I use Darice brand "Wipeable Window Artist Marker" that I picked up at Michael's; I've tried a few others, so far it's the best. It's about $3, and can be used for a couple seasons.

I'll be switching over to magnetic numbers here shortly, but Window Chalk is definitely the best way to go as a newb.

[Ciderbarrel]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter I just use Window Chalk. Specifically, I use Darice brand "Wipeable Window Artist Marker" that I picked up at Michael's; I've tried a few others, so far it's the best. It's about $3, and can be used for a couple seasons. I'll be switching over to magnetic numbers here shortly, but Window Chalk is definitely the best way to go as a newb.

I was thinking of window chalk, but 3.7.D of the rules state that ID on the windows is not allowed:
http://www.scca.com/documents/2011%2...lo%20Rules.pdf

Numbers and class letters should be positioned next to each other.
All letters and numbers must be on body panels, not on windows.
All numbers and class letters must use the same typeface and the
same color, and this color must provide adequate contrast to the
background color (see Appendix F for examples).