[Smilieboy]

So i have pretty much decided that my GT is going to become a more dedicated autoX car when i get back from my next trip to the box. My thinking is still however, clouded of what i should look at doing. Before we get into that, i will say this. I am not redoing anything unless it is an absolute must. i.e. shocks and struts, SFCs, PHB. Spring rates, brakes, tires, control arms etc. are all fair game, but i have gone through 2 sets of shocks and struts, springs, and my SFC is welded in. So i am not changing that stuff.

Based on the last set of times from my last event, most of it is driver mod, however, i did have a few minor issues which if resolved would likely help.

1T SM 82 William Adams 2003 Subaru WRX Black 49.226+1 48.281+1 47.216 48.096 46.544 46.544
[-]2.330
2 SM 318 Michael Shields 1997 BMW 318Ti Silver 49.570 47.815+1 48.725+DNF 50.204 48.874 48.874
+2.330
3 SM 67 Nicholas Smilie 2004 Ford Mustang GT Redfire 51.536 49.946 50.139+2 50.334+1 50.491+2 49.946
+1.072

For one, the rear end still tries to kick out. The tires (NT05s) helped keep this under control, however it still felt unstable mid corner and on exit. Especially under heavy cornering. (See turn around point in video) I am thinking a TA should remedy this somewhat as well as a True-trac diff. If anyone else has some pointers let me know.

YouTube - ‪THSCC battles@8Krpms‬‏

YouTube - ‪THSCC battles@8Krpms‬‏

The second, which also plays some into the rear end, is the rear lower control arms. They are probably the last thing still on this car back when i drag raced it. They are UPR pieces so they are good for drag, but i am sure if i got the MM adjustable pieces, it would help.

Next is the spring rates. I have decided to go coil-over in the rear now, wont happen before i leave, but i can at least decide what to go with. I have the Bilstein HDs in mine so i am thinking of going with a 325-350 in the front and but i am not sure for the rear.

Brakes are covered. DBA 5000 two piece slotted rotors up front and centric stock replacements in the rear (once the current bullit rotors are deemed finished). Carbotech AX6s for pads.

Furthermore, i am thinking tubular K-member and a arms for the front. This will reduce weight and hold me over till the motor goes. Other than this, i am pretty much out of stuff to do over the nose aside from a new motor. I also need to look at a set of MM CC plates. My el cheapo UPRs are maxed out on negative camber at 1.3.

Wheels and tires, i am open to recommendations. Understand, IIRC Street Mod class can't go under 180 treadwear ratting.

Lastly, power. Once i have my longtubes in, i don't think i will need anymore. We have the bullit intake. I just need to get a C&L so i can fit a strut tower brace on it. Again, until the motor goes, i see no reason to invest much in this section. Power isn't too much of an issue, its the handling that needs the attention the most.

[Whiskey11]

Take my advice with a grain of salt, but if you don't have em yet, a dedicated set of racing wheels (light weight) with a set of dedicated legal slicks like the Hoosier A6's or so.

Not sure what to tell you suspension wise. I've been eyeing the Watts Link set up to remove the Panhard bar in my 09 to keep it more planted. It was evident in my first event that the back end moves under the chassis too much.

I will be watching this thread because I'm extremely interested in how certain suspension components effect handling. I understand what each component does, but not 100% on how changing certain things impact handling.

[Blackwid0wXR7]

Looks like loads of fun, can't wait to get my car back on the street!

[Whiskey11]

I just rewatched the video, not sure how much tire squealing there was, but from the video it doesn't feel or sound like there was much in the way of tire squealing or feel like the car had any major troubles with the obstacles. I really would love to have ran that course as it looked pretty fast

[Smilieboy]

This may be where my inexperience shows. That was also not the best run to show it. A couple of runs, the rear end kicking out was what kept me from pushing harder. But again, me being inexperienced may be the overall problem, and i just need an excuse to mod the hell out of it.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Smilieboy This may be where my inexperience shows. That was also not the best run to show it. A couple of runs, the rear end kicking out was what kept me from pushing harder. But again, me being inexperienced may be the overall problem, and i just need an excuse to mod the hell out of it.

I dunno if I'm helping at all and my own lack of experience may poke through, but I keep rewatching the videos and trying to think how I would have ran the course, etc. That is of course, highly subjective. I have significantly less experience in AutoX than any of the other folks here. I'm one race into what is going to be an addictive hobby. That said, something in your set up and maybe how the video is playing, feels like the car isn't really being pushed too much. Some of the line choices where probably the biggest loss of time, specifically that last one. I probably would have entered that corner at the edge of the pavement, clipped the cone and came back out wide and used the fact that it opened up at the end to my advantage instead of cutting the cone close and staying close. In my car, it likes to pull to the outside, so why fight it when I don't have to. By the time you reached that slalom you could have hit it straighter. I'm not sure how you take the slaloms, but the best advice I heard pertaining to slaloms is to turn in advance of the cone. In other words, when you go through the first cone you should already be turning for the second one instead of waiting to turn till you reach that cone. It feels weird when I did it but it shaved a full second and a half off of a run time on the course I was running as it was rife with slaloms after every corner.

Like I said, a grain of salt for every bit of advice. Maybe hit up Jazzer and see if he has time to respond some.

[Smilieboy]

Thats what i am waiting for.

[Smilieboy]

So here is another dumb question;

What is a good option for open track car or a good stock class autox car?

[Smilieboy]

So here is another dumb question;

What is a good option for open track car or a good stock class autox car?

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Smilieboy So here is another dumb question; What is a good option for open track car or a good stock class autox car?

I believe the Shelby GT's in my generation are still considered king of F-Stock and have a ton of the FRPP handling package upgrades already from the factory. To top it off, it's still a Mustang. Otherwise, Boss 302? Fully adjustable suspension setups must be nice, but the price tag is kind of hefty.

[Smilieboy]

My only problem with the shelby GT is price people want for it. When i get back, i don't really want a new car or pay for a new car price. If the prices come down to low to maybe mid 20's ill think about it. The boss is out of the question.

[Smilieboy]

So would 275# coil over springs be too much for the rear?

[ReverendDexter]

Okay, I think you're going in a lot of directions that you really don't need to.

For one, are your brakes actually giving out? If not, don't worry about 'em. Bigger brakes will make you slower, and not in the way you want them to. Stock brakes are more than sufficient for autocross.

For two, have you looked at the classing, and what these mods will put you in? It's a damn shame to do a mod that you think is legal only to find out you're now competing with prepped tube-frame beasts.

For three, why do you think COs in the rear will be helpful?

And why do you think you want more power? You already have power. What you need is lateral grip and neutral handling. Power should be the LAST thing on your mind right now.

I'm not sure what's done to your car already, but here's what I recommend, assuming that you can do these mods without class penalties.

#1 dedicated set of race rubber. If you're staying in a street tire class, I'd recommend something like Dunlop Direzza Star Specs, Kumho ECSTA XSs, Hankook RS3s or Toyo R1Rs

#2 - a way to get your rear axle properly located. Panhard bar, watts link, good aftermarket UCAs, or an IRS swap can all do this, really depends on your ultimate goals and budget.

#3- CC plates. I don't care if you're stock ride height or not, a proper performance alignment will do amazing things for your front grip. Start with max caster (will be ~4 degrees), -1.5 camber, and 0 toe. If you need better turn-in, give it an RCH of toe-out. Check your tire temps and adjust pressure and camber accordingly.

#4 - Chassis bracing. Full-length, weld-in subframe connectors. No excuse to not have these in a Mustang that takes corners.

#5 - Proper shocks. I recommend Bilsteins; get Koni Yellows if you're convinced you need an adjustable shock; or get Tokico blues if you're poor.


I wouldn't look at anything else until you've done all of the above, and realistically, I recommend doing a whole season in a stock car before you do *any* modifications.

[Smilieboy]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter Okay, I think you're going in a lot of directions that you really don't need to. Thats why i made this thread to get input For one, are your brakes actually giving out? If not, don't worry about 'em. Bigger brakes will make you slower, and not in the way you want them to. Stock brakes are more than sufficient for autocross. Brakes are stock bullit brakes. The DBAs are just replacements for the rotors. For two, have you looked at the classing, and what these mods will put you in? It's a damn shame to do a mod that you think is legal only to find out you're now competing with prepped tube-frame beasts. Yes, everything for Street Mod that i have listed is good. There are some limitations (mostly in motor modifications), but none of them are things i wanted to do anyway. For three, why do you think COs in the rear will be helpful? Mostly looking for balance out the front and rear. If my ford c springs are sufficient then i will stick with them. And why do you think you want more power? You already have power. What you need is lateral grip and neutral handling. Power should be the LAST thing on your mind right now. While true, i want the longtubes. That is the last thing going on unless i can get a C&L to replace my JLT that i have. The JLT is blocking my ability to put in a strut tower brace. I'm not sure what's done to your car already, but here's what I recommend, assuming that you can do these mods without class penalties. #1 dedicated set of race rubber. If you're staying in a street tire class, I'd recommend something like Dunlop Direzza Star Specs, Kumho ECSTA XSs, Hankook RS3s or Toyo R1Rs Working on that, would you recommend NT05s? That is what i have been running. They are good from my experience so far. But if there is something better i would be happy to hear it. #2 - a way to get your rear axle properly located. Panhard bar, watts link, good aftermarket UCAs, or an IRS swap can all do this, really depends on your ultimate goals and budget. Panhard is done, i would like to do a torque arm to eliminate the need for the uppers. I have UPRs right now. #3- CC plates. I don't care if you're stock ride height or not, a proper performance alignment will do amazing things for your front grip. Start with max caster (will be ~4 degrees), -1.5 camber, and 0 toe. If you need better turn-in, give it an RCH of toe-out. Check your tire temps and adjust pressure and camber accordingly. I am working on that, i have a upr set right now but they are maxed out on adjustment. #4 - Chassis bracing. Full-length, weld-in subframe connectors. No excuse to not have these in a Mustang that takes corners. Done #5 - Proper shocks. I recommend Bilsteins; get Koni Yellows if you're convinced you need an adjustable shock; or get Tokico blues if you're poor. Got the Bilsteins. I wouldn't look at anything else until you've done all of the above, and realistically, I recommend doing a whole season in a stock car before you do *any* modifications.

Too late for that. Thanks for the reply.

More editing: What it comes down to is this. I want to be able to start my 2013 season off with a solid car. The only modifications i make need to be minimal. The longtubes and the new rotors will be the last thing going on before i leave this winter.

[ReverendDexter]

UPR is very drag-oriented stuff. With those CC plates maxed, what alignment specs are you able to get? Do you take tire temps? If not, I *highly* recommend it, it's the best way to get an idea of what your tires are doing. Ideally, take 'em after every run and make minor adjustments based on what you're seeing.

I made the switch from a poor man's 3-link (LCAs, panhard, and only running the passenger side UCA) to a torque arm, and my feeling is that it was VERY worth it. I just can't express just how bad the geometry imparted by the stock UCAs is. The rear end just felt so much more settled, and you actually get grip under acceleration (and when it does break loose, it's much more progressive and controllable). The only downside is that with a full TA out back, your rear has more grip than your front, so the car start's pushing pretty bad (this is what I'm fighting presently). You'll also need to way jack up your rear spring rate; MM sells TA-specific springs just for that (and they'll pair nicely with your bilsteins, that's what I'm running).

I personally don't have any experience with the NT05s, I know lots of guys on this board like them but lots of guys on this board don't give two shits about cornering. I know at least one guy in the local autocross club runs 'em and likes 'em, but he's not a very good driver so I can't say if they're really a competitive tire or not. I would say that they're likely a good tire for now, when it comes time to replace them, look at what the fast guys at Nationals are running in your class with similar cars (don't look at F-stock, as stock classes allow full-on race rubber).

[Av8tor]

Im a bit jealous of that video, most of the time when they do the course setup here they seem to build it for civics and little cars so the foxbody doesnt have as good a time. That course looked a little more open with some possibilities to open it up a bit.

As for information on what to do id probably just copy dexters post into my to do list. Im slowly working on a very similar setup for my 81. But i decided when i got the car i would build it the way ill enjoy it and then worry about class. So mine looks to be headed for SM, but it should be a blast.

[Smilieboy]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter UPR is very drag-oriented stuff. With those CC plates maxed, what alignment specs are you able to get? Do you take tire temps? If not, I *highly* recommend it, it's the best way to get an idea of what your tires are doing. Ideally, take 'em after every run and make minor adjustments based on what you're seeing. I made the switch from a poor man's 3-link (LCAs, panhard, and only running the passenger side UCA) to a torque arm, and my feeling is that it was VERY worth it. I just can't express just how bad the geometry imparted by the stock UCAs is. The rear end just felt so much more settled, and you actually get grip under acceleration (and when it does break loose, it's much more progressive and controllable). The only downside is that with a full TA out back, your rear has more grip than your front, so the car start's pushing pretty bad (this is what I'm fighting presently). You'll also need to way jack up your rear spring rate; MM sells TA-specific springs just for that (and they'll pair nicely with your bilsteins, that's what I'm running). I personally don't have any experience with the NT05s, I know lots of guys on this board like them but lots of guys on this board don't give two shits about cornering. I know at least one guy in the local autocross club runs 'em and likes 'em, but he's not a very good driver so I can't say if they're really a competitive tire or not. I would say that they're likely a good tire for now, when it comes time to replace them, look at what the fast guys at Nationals are running in your class with similar cars (don't look at F-stock, as stock classes allow full-on race rubber).

We could only get 1.3 degrees of negative camber. Otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to re-tighten the bolts for the cc plats. The TA would be the main thing i want to get, but that takes money. Money i won't have till Oct. at best. Ill keep plugging at the NT05s to see if i can do much better. If not when i get back i will pick up a second set of wheels and put dedicated rubber for autox on them.

[94racing]

Im Still waiting on jazzer to show up yelling you need the driver mod.
I am going to try autocross for the first time next month If I don't get a full racecar here soon

[ReverendDexter]

Yeah, I'd at least take a look at the MM plates, because you need more camber than that.

[Smilieboy]

Originally Posted by 94racing Im Still waiting on jazzer to show up yelling you need the driver mod. I am going to try autocross for the first time next month If I don't get a full racecar here soon

Me and him have already agreed before i need the driver mod.