[jamiehatch]

Hi I have a 99 cobra I wasnt happy with the IRS...so I swaped it out for a 03' mach1 rearend and some aftermarket uppers and lowers, Now That im autoX instead of drag racing, Im looking for some better suspension, Should I "red pill" the irs? or would I be better using steeda 5 link, Max,motorsports 3 link? what are the pros and cons of these suspension types? And who make a good k member? im not looking for one thats lightweight for drag racing i want one with better front end geometry, better caster and camber and wont flex. and I dont want high dollar suspension. it not a full race car it is 90% street use. Thanks for any input you can help me with.

[Smilieboy]

I like the PHB/TA kit from MM. Good kit for the money. As far as the K-member, MM but thats only if you really want to spend the money.

But first, what class are you trying to compete in and what is you overall goal?

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by jamiehatch Hi I have a 99 cobra I wasnt happy with the IRS...so I swaped it out for a 03' mach1 rearend and some aftermarket uppers and lowers, Now That im autoX instead of drag racing, Im looking for some better suspension, Should I "red pill" the irs? or would I be better using steeda 5 link, Max,motorsports 3 link? what are the pros and cons of these suspension types? And who make a good k member? im not looking for one thats lightweight for drag racing i want one with better front end geometry, better caster and camber and wont flex. and I dont want high dollar suspension. it not a full race car it is 90% street use. Thanks for any input you can help me with.

Weeeeeeeeeeeellllll...... IRS, even in the less than ideal configuration that Ford shoehorned into the Cobras is still better for corner carving than a Solid Rear Axle is. BUT, I don't know much about the Cobra IRS other than it failed to meet the expectations of many corner carvers. If you can upgrade it's components then you'll be better off as it will allow you to put in rear camber and toe and that can have drastic improvements in handling.

That said, the SRA has some unique performance characteristics that can make the car more fun. Ideally, a Torque Arm and Watts link set up (I think only the Griggs unit will work with a TA) or a Watts link with some aftermarket LCA's and stock UCAs for the 4 link quadra-"bind." A proper set of springs for the front and back, caster/camber plates, Sub Frame Connectors and a set of adjustable sway bars. Those are all great ideas HOWEVER you really need to look at the class rules that you want to compete in. ESP is probably the most popular and it will allow most of the above including the Watts Link. I would look heavily into a watts link set up if you keep the SRA.

[Jazzer The Cat]

Hold on there, Whiskey.... you are a little confused on some things Don't get sway-bars at this time, but DO look into the class rules and how they will/would apply to your AX events!

jamie.... The very first thing I would ask is your ULTIMATE goals, as mentioned already by ma pepe, smilie The second thing I would ask, is what are the exact LCA's/UCA's you have installed on your ride currently. My guess is they are solid with poly/poly ends? If so.... YANK at least the uppers and go back to OEM ones or reconsider your attempt to avoid a "High-dollar" suspension.

You won't get what you want, or at least mentioned, without dropping a minimum of $2K

Jazzer

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Jazzer The Cat Hold on there, Whiskey.... you are a little confused on some things Don't get sway-bars at this time, but DO look into the class rules and how they will/would apply to your AX events! jamie.... The very first thing I would ask is your ULTIMATE goals, as mentioned already by ma pepe, smilie The second thing I would ask, is what are the exact LCA's/UCA's you have installed on your ride currently. My guess is they are solid with poly/poly ends? If so.... YANK at least the uppers and go back to OEM ones or reconsider your attempt to avoid a "High-dollar" suspension. You won't get what you want, or at least mentioned, without dropping a minimum of $2K Jazzer

Ohh I would agree Jazzer, hold off until you find the direction you want to go, but being as he already has the IRS under his car STOCK, going to a SRA would mean any changes in performance must be counted as mods or they have to be removed to fit a standard Mustang per update/backdate if he wants to stay in a specific class that doesn't allow rear end swaps (like going to the SRA would be for him). So that is going to bump him into a class that allows sway bars, springs, etc.

I DID state to find out where you want your car to fit in the rules and build to that. So I'm not sure what I was confused about

[Jazzer The Cat]

Confused in that he now has an SRA that was swapped for his original IRS. As for a WL, any will work with a TA and WL will not make the issues of a quadra-bind go away (maybe not what you mean ). Also, installing a set of sway bars at this time, even if adjustable, is pre-mature as other issues should be addessed and may not even be needed.

I would certainly agree that the class one is in will almost surely change with suspension mods. So keep this in mind and consider that ULTIMATE goal

Jazzer

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Jazzer The Cat Confused in that he now has an SRA that was swapped for his original IRS. As for a WL, any will work with a TA and WL will not make the issues of a quadra-bind go away (maybe not what you mean ). Also, installing a set of sway bars at this time, even if adjustable, is pre-mature as other issues should be addessed and may not even be needed. I would certainly agree that the class one is in will almost surely change with suspension mods. So keep this in mind and consider that ULTIMATE goal Jazzer

In his first post it sounds like he's asking if he should put the IRS back in or keep the SRA. The WL set up should be considered with the TA to replace the quadrabind system if he plans on keeping the SRA intact. I guess I was making the assumption that he knows the limits of his car, which was probably a false assumption since he's starting autox so my bad on that part.

[Jazzer The Cat]

Is that what he means by "red-pill" the IRS.... re-install it?

Now I'm confsued

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Jazzer The Cat Is that what he means by "red-pill" the IRS.... re-install it? Now I'm confsued

Not sure what he meant by that, I just assumed (bad word) that in the context that was what he was referring to when he said red-pill the IRS....

[Jazzer The Cat]

Maybe he will chime back in one day and join the conversation... lol

[jamiehatch]

Hi by "red pill" I am referring SVTperformance forumn link on fixing the irs problems..
Cobra IRS
Low Profile and 14mm IRS Bolts
MM Subframe Bushing kit
MM Alum Diff bushings
Bilstein rear shocks (grooved)
MM Coil Over kit (575 lb/in)
MM IRS LCA Bushings
MM IRS UCA Bushings
MM Comp Tie Rod Ends
DSS Level 5 Halfshafts
IRS Brace
IRS Mounting Brackets

And as far as a class Here in maine we have a club that is loosely based on Scca rules. Not looking to compete Hard core just having fun...but i'm not happy with the handleing with the car and would like to upgrade the suspension. I dont like the snapping/binding effect of the rear suspension. and currently i have upper and lower are solid with poly ends. I want to handle better on the street and track..I know it will cost some money to upgrade but the car is 12 years old and Could use some handleing upgrades.

[Jazzer The Cat]

The solid/poly control arms are a HUGE part of the snapping/binding equasion here and particularly the uppers

Yank those bad boys out and go OEM uppers, or address the issues of a 4-link via PHB or WL with TA. You can also consider a 5-link, but am personally not a fan of them. More work and think it leaves a bit to be desired, from what I understand about them. It is less expensive/work to make your existing live-axle handle, than re-install an IRS and build it up. A built SRA will handle better than an equally built IRS. A few will argue this as not true, but I disagree and so does Griggs Racing

Jamie... answer the following question PRIOR to any additional moves to mod your ride..

What are the ULTIMATE goals for your car?

PM me if you like and take a peek at my suspension guide for additional info on the above. Jazzer The Cat's Official Suspension Guide (on another forum)

Jazzer

[jamiehatch]

My Ultimate goal would be for it to handle as well as my 00' BMW M3. The handling is almost scary I dont know what the rear suspension is goin to do at times. I want to be able to drive confidently on the street and have a little fun on the weekend at the autocross track.And I have decided not to install the IRS.Jazzer I read your supension guide and it answered alot of question I had, and I saw that u said for $2000 you can fix most of the suspension issues. I was thinking of goin MM PH and TA. Full length sub frame connectors,
In the front I already have steeda bump-steer and steeda lowering springs all around. I was think of getting MM Caster camber plates and kmember brace and strut tower brace. Would you recommend PH or watts? And griggs or MM or any other suspension company?

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by jamiehatch My Ultimate goal would be for it to handle as well as my 00' BMW M3. The handling is almost scary I dont know what the rear suspension is goin to do at times. I want to be able to drive confidently on the street and have a little fun on the weekend at the autocross track.And I have decided not to install the IRS.Jazzer I read your supension guide and it answered alot of question I had, and I saw that u said for $2000 you can fix most of the suspension issues. I was thinking of goin MM PH and TA. Full length sub frame connectors, In the front I already have steeda bump-steer and steeda lowering springs all around. I was think of getting MM Caster camber plates and kmember brace and strut tower brace. Would you recommend PH or watts? And griggs or MM or any other suspension company?

IMO Watts > PHB. A PHB creates an arc when the suspension travels and your roll center changes when the PHB changes. It also makes your car slightly bias to one side for ease of turning, generally the right side to counteract torque steer. A Watts link has zero bias, a fixed roll center and keeps the rear end centered perfectly at all but the most serious extremes of suspension travel (basically when the little propeller is nearing horizontal, which I don't think is possible on a car). It offers a much more smooth moving rear end and allows your suspension components to do their jobs as it takes the job of centering the rear axle and dealing with lateral (side to side) forces rather than having your control arms flex. Combining it with a Torque Arm ensures that you have constant pinion angle and very little torque steer at all.

I personally prefer frame mounted propeller watts links (Fays2 and Steeda's for the S197, not sure if they make one for the SN95/Fox) over the differential cover mounted watts link as it helps keep unsprung weight at a minimum and allows the roll center to be fixed to the chassis of the vehicle rather than fixed to the axle of the vehicle (each has it's own unique handling characteristics). I don't own one yet, but it will be the first suspension upgrade to go on my 09, and it wont be long before I get it either! The PHB set up on the S197 is perfectly fine, I just wish the rear end was a little more settled for daily driving and if that means having some performance enhancements too, DANG.

[Jazzer The Cat]

jamie, Whiskey covered it all pretty darn well

If you want your SN95 to be ANYWHERE in the vacinity of your BMW, in terms of cornering, you MUST rid yourelf of the 4-link. To do so, requires what Whiskey has said above, but there is some debate on where the RC is best. I know that Griggs prefers it on the axle, where others prefer it on the chassis. Both make arguements to support their side, so you would need to make your own decision there. Either way, a PHB or WL with TA combo will do WONDERS for your cornering experience and light-years beyond your current set-up.

As for who I recommend, I would say MM, unless you are very serious about open-track stuff and have a much thicker wallet to afford Griggs. I love Griggs stuff, as I run it myself. It is certainly stronger, but more expensive for sure. I recommend you look into one of MM's Grip Boxes and would strongly consider The Road & Track Box. This will trnasform your car into a road beast, but add lots of NVH to your ride, so you would need to accept this as a consequence. You may be able to go Fays2 WL, as Whiskey recommended, but not sure if it will clear the MM TA.

Jazzer

[JakeM]

What are your thoughts on the Fays2 Watts Jazzer? I'm not sure that I like how it mounts on the axle tube. I'm thinking it may be worth it to save for the Steeda piece instead. The fays2 piece is just clamped to the axle tube. The Steeda piece is welded in place. However, the steeda piece is a lot more expensive.

Fays2:


Steeda:

[TheUNZippee!]

Jazzer is The Shit

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by JakeM What are your thoughts on the Fays2 Watts Jazzer? I'm not sure that I like how it mounts on the axle tube. I'm thinking it may be worth it to save for the Steeda piece instead. The fays2 piece is just clamped to the axle tube. The Steeda piece is welded in place. However, the steeda piece is a lot more expensive. Fays2: Steeda:

I would read the literature on Jim Fay's webpage. Yes, it comes from the source, so treat it with some heavy doses of salt, but he makes a very compelling argument about the axle tube mounting solution. They did put their test S197 into 100 yards or so of dirt and grass sideways at nearly 100 MPH after it broke loose in a slalom and the only problem was a bent center bolt. No damage to the axle tubes. In fact, I've not read of anyone who has had issues with their Fays unit. It is the unit I'll be buying as it combines all of my desires for a watts link into one piece. Adjustable, affordable, effective and chassis mounted. It also does not significantly add weight to the unsprung side of things, and it isn't that heavy of a piece to begin with. I have no idea how the Steeda welds on, but welding to the axle means never going back to the PHB set up if you decide to go back to stock to sell or something ridiculous.

Edit, I would like to reiterate what Jazzer said about the Fays2's fitment around a TA. I would email Jim Fay and ask him if you plan on going that route. For sure the only TA + Watts link set up I know is the Griggs unit and even then, I only know it works for the S197's. Not sure about the SN95/Fox platforms. I can't imagine they wouldn't design theirs to go around the TA as it's one of their signature pieces (like the Watts link is).

[Jazzer The Cat]

Another fine post by my finely-aged friend I too like the Fays2 over the Steeda and got into a bit of a discussion about this very subject with Gus a few years back.

Griggs makes a WL/TA package for ALL models of the Mustang. The only reason I avoided it myself, was due to the need of cutting into the spare tire well for its installation. In order to run the Griggs WL, a massive frame must be welded onto cars frame and gas tank moved back a bit. Then, the front 1/3rd of the spare tire well is blocked off for the suspension travel of the axle. Since my car is used for MANY road trips with the soon-to-be, I wanted to have a spare, as flat-bedding my ride is something I would rather not do

Jazzer

[Macunicorn]

All I got to say is 3 link is king.