[farms04]

ok so i new to the autocross and i have been told that my car with the mods i have would put me in the sm class what can i expect from this class

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by farms04 ok so i new to the autocross and i have been told that my car with the mods i have would put me in the sm class what can i expect from this class

Just about everything that is heavily modified but still street legal from 'stangs and Camaros to Evo's to STI's to Honda Civics. The SM class was intended to be a bit of an "open" class for street legal cars that still have interiors. Go look at the rules! You wont be racing against any 2 seaters in here, just 2+2 coupes and 4 door sports cars. The 2 seaters are all in SSM (thank the Lord! )

I wouldn't hold your breath of winning any national titles or really winning locally until you put some serious money into the car but it CAN be done. I'm curious what mods you have that put you over into SM. Most Mustang mods can be put into E-Street Prepared which is much more friendly to the pony cars. I wouldn't be dissuaded from autocrossing in SM though, just be realistic about it. I don't autocross to compete against others. I don't have the budgets others do, I autocross to find the limitations of my car and me as the driver and to improve my driving in emergency situations and most importantly to have fun thrashing my car about.

That said, welcome to Autocross, it's an addicting hobby! Post up your mods (all of them) and we can try to help you out with classing. I would go to the SCCA webpage and download the rule book (free) and read over the rules, then I would go attend an event. You don't need a helmet, they will have one their you can rent/borrow for a small fee or no fee at all. Go out there and have fun

[JakeM]

A little off topic, but about SM:

Since my car will be superchargered soon, will I still be able to run SM? The rules state forced induction car's are limited to 3.0 (OHC) liters of displacement. If this is true, what would my car run in? I was aiming for SM until I read that...

"Maximum engine displacement:

Forced induction -
3.0L (OHC engines)
4.0L (pushrod engines)
Normally aspirated -
6.0L
Rotary engines (all) -
1.5L"

Reference: SCCA Solo II Car Classification Rules: Street Modified

[JakeM]

But then from CMS.SCCA:

"Street Modified – The top of the “street” categories, Street Modified allows
anything from Stock, Street Touring, and Street Prepared and just about any
engine and drivetrain configuration as long as the engine manufacturer matches
the body manufacturer (see Solo Rules for details). Four-seaters (BMW, Corolla,
Civic, Integra, Neon, Supra, Talon, VW, etc.) run in SM and two-seat sports cars
(Corvette, CRX, M Roadster, Miata, RX-7, MR2, etc.) compete in SSM. Carbonfiber hoods, cams, turbo/supercharger kits, etc are welcome, too."

Reference:
http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_R...categories.pdf

Bleh

[farms04]

cai, ud pulleys, 3.73 gears, tb, full exhaust , mgw short, eibach pro kit but i was told that the ud pulleys is what put me in that class

Originally

Posted by farms04gt
Year: 2004
Make:mustang
Model:gt
ALL Modifications: cai, ud pullies, throttle body, eibach pro kit springs shocks, short throw shifter, 18x9 front wheels 18x10 in back, full exhaust, 3.73 gears


Fun fact of the day, apparently velocity stacks are Street Prepared legal. Unfortunately the underdrive pulleys definitely aren't either. But thankfully there's plenty of competition to be had in Street Modified!

.

[nileppezdel77!]

Originally Posted by farms04 cai, ud pulleys, 3.73 gears, tb, full exhaust , mgw short, eibach pro kit but i was told that the ud pulleys is what put me in that class Originally Posted by farms04gt Year: 2004 Make:mustang Model:gt ALL Modifications: cai, ud pullies, throttle body, eibach pro kit springs shocks, short throw shifter, 18x9 front wheels 18x10 in back, full exhaust, 3.73 gears Fun fact of the day, apparently velocity stacks are Street Prepared legal. Unfortunately the underdrive pulleys definitely aren't either. But thankfully there's plenty of competition to be had in Street Modified! .

UD pulleys, really? So I'd be in SM too (mods in garage)? I'm at work and can't check the rulebook right now, does it say anything about aftermarket transmissions as well?

[farms04]

i have no idea like i said im just getting in to it and had ask a guy that helps puts on the events

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by farms04 cai, ud pulleys, 3.73 gears, tb, full exhaust , mgw short, eibach pro kit but i was told that the ud pulleys is what put me in that class Originally Posted by farms04gt Year: 2004 Make:mustang Model:gt ALL Modifications: cai, ud pullies, throttle body, eibach pro kit springs shocks, short throw shifter, 18x9 front wheels 18x10 in back, full exhaust, 3.73 gears Fun fact of the day, apparently velocity stacks are Street Prepared legal. Unfortunately the underdrive pulleys definitely aren't either. But thankfully there's plenty of competition to be had in Street Modified! .

UDP's are allowed in Street Prepared via 15.10.Z:

Originally Posted by 15.10.Z Any accessory pulleys and belts of the same type (e.g. V-belt, serpentine) as standard may be used. This allowance applies to accessory pulleys only (e.g., alternator, water pump, power steering pump, and crankshaft drive pulleys). Supercharged cars may not alter crankshaft/supercharger drive ratio. Alternate pulley materials may be used. Idler pulleys may be used for belt routing in place of items which the rules specifically allow to be removed, such as smog pumps and air conditioning compressors. They may serve no other purpose.

The 3.73 gears, while not only hurting your top speed in 2nd gear (and potentially requiring a shift on faster courses) is what is pulling you to SM not the UDP's, at least not by what I'm interpreting from 15.10.Z above.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by JakeM A little off topic, but about SM: Since my car will be superchargered soon, will I still be able to run SM? The rules state forced induction car's are limited to 3.0 (OHC) liters of displacement. If this is true, what would my car run in? I was aiming for SM until I read that... "Maximum engine displacement: Forced induction - 3.0L (OHC engines) 4.0L (pushrod engines) Normally aspirated - 6.0L Rotary engines (all) - 1.5L" Reference: SCCA Solo II Car Classification Rules: Street Modified

Your reference appears to be out of date. While the SM section for engines in the SCCA rule book for 2011 specifies that there are some restrictions for engines, it references Appendix A which states:

STREET MODIFIED CATEGORY Engine Classifications 1. Four-stroke cycle and two-stroke cycle, naturally aspirated internal combustion engines will be classified on the basis of actual piston displacement. 2. Turbocharged or supercharged versions of all engines will be classified on a basis of adding 1.4L to the actual displacement. 3. Rotary Engines (Wankel): These units will be classified on the basis of a piston displacement equivalent to 0.9 liters times the number of rotors, plus the volume determined by the difference between the maximum and minimum capacity of the working chamber times the number of rotors. 4. Electric Motors: Cars with electric motors, in whole or part of the drivetrain, will run at class maximum weight of 2900 lbs for SSM class and 3100 lbs for SM class. Category weight adjustments (e.g., tire size) are allowed. Weight Adjustments Cars running tires with a rated width of 275 mm or less on all four wheels may compete at a minimum weight 200 lbs less than their calculated weight. STREET MODIFIED CLASS (SM) Eligible Vehicles: All sedans/coupes (models which were originally equipped with a minimum of four seats and four factory seat belts). Excluded Vehicles: Porsche (all) Lotus (all) Nissan/Datsun Z-car 2+2; pre-1990 Honda CRX MGB GT Triumph (all) Minimum Weight Calculations (without driver): FWD: 1550 lbs + 125 lbs per liter RWD: 1800 lbs + 200 lbs per liter AWD: 1800 lbs + 300 lbs pre liter Engine behind driver: +25 lbs per liter Tire width 275mm or less (all): -200 lbs Regardless of the weight formulas above, no car will be required to weigh more than 3100 lbs.188 — 2011 SCCA NATIONAL SOLO RULES SUPER STREET MODIFIED CLASS (SSM) Eligible Vehicles: All two-seat cars not excluded below. All SM eligible sedans/coupes excluded from SM. All SM eligible vehicles. Excluded Vehicles: Lotus (all except Elise, Exige, & Esprit) Vehicles not meeting minimum weights Minimum Weight Calculations (without driver): FWD: 1350 lbs + 125 lbs per liter RWD: 1600 lbs + 200 lbs per liter AWD: 1600 lbs + 300 lbs per liter Engine behind driver: +25 lbs per liter Tire width 275mm or less (all): -200 lbs Regardless of the weight formulas above, no car will be required to weigh more than 2900 lbs. STREET MODIFIED SUPPLEMENTAL CLASS FRONT WHEEL DRIVE (SMF) Eligible Vehicles: All FWD vehicles. Minimum Weight Calculations (without driver): 2-seater: 1650 lbs + 125 lbs per liter 4-seater: 1550 lbs + 125 lbs per liter Regardless of the weight formulas above, no car will be required to weigh more than 3100 lbs. (Cars running in SMF using tires with a nominal width of 275 or less will NOT receive the weight adjustment as stated in the SM class.)

I don't see anything limiting engine displacement, only your minimum weight.

For the purposes of classification, in SM, your car has 4.6L. Because you will be adding a supercharger you will be adding 1.4L's to the total displacement. That puts you at 6.0L. According to their math, a RWD car starts off at 1800lbs and adds 200 lbs for every liter of displacement or 1200 pounds (since it's effectively 6.0L). That means your minimum weight is 3000lbs. It basically means you can't strip out the interior of the car and get your car under 3000lbs. If you run 275mm or smaller tires on all four wheels you can knock off 200 lbs from that calculation. I don't see anything about max engine displacements, despite there being reference to such.


EDIT: If in doubt about the rules, DOWNLOAD the 2011 Rule Book at: http://www.scca.com/documents/2011%2...lo%20Rules.pdf

[farms04]

thanks for the info eaither wich way im still going to go out and have a blast

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by farms04 thanks for the info eaither wich way im still going to go out and have a blast

Fun is the most important thing about it! SM will be a blast, it's very open in the rules and that is always nice! A truly SMed out car is one serious machine that can still be Daily Driven. Eventually my car will make it there. Right now though all of the mods I'm planning fit into ESP so I'll hang out there until something pulls me into SM. My buddy wants me to run SM against his EvoIX SE but I know better than to even start that without some serious mods to back it up!

[farms04]

only one way to learn is to jump in and boy did i make a jump

[Jazzer The Cat]

My take has always been.... build the car you WANT and the class be damned

Think about it, do you want to drive a "lesser" car than you would like JUST to be more competetive with those around you? OR..... would you rather build your dream car and run with those who ALSO have their dream cars? This gives you loftier goals and provides the platform to continually strive to achieve them

Jazzer

[JakeM]

Thanks Whiskey and Jazzer.

I'm gonna have to download that rule book. Although, I should probably just wait till the 2012 book comes out since I won't be racing until next year.

Also, next year I'm going to be running 265/40/17 Dunlop StarSpec's. So, I "could" knock off another 200lb's theoretically? So, I could knock it down to 2800lb's if possible? Interesting... I don't think I want to do that, or if that is even possible in a S197. But its good to know.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by JakeM Thanks Whiskey and Jazzer. I'm gonna have to download that rule book. Although, I should probably just wait till the 2012 book comes out since I won't be racing until next year. Also, next year I'm going to be running 265/40/17 Dunlop StarSpec's. So, I "could" knock off another 200lb's theoretically? So, I could knock it down to 2800lb's if possible? Interesting... I don't think I want to do that, or if that is even possible in a S197. But its good to know.

Having the 2011 book is nice especially since it's free. I doubt the rules will take a drastic change, and what changes do get made will be big news on the SCCA forums as everyone scrambles to make the now approved changes or remove once legal but now illegal changes.

I do have to admit that the new SM rules really leave the class open to just about any car that seats 4 (and SSM that seats 2) to add HP via FI. I personally wouldn't bother adding too much in power until you do some heavy suspension mods. Keeping the car from upsetting due to weight transfer is by far one of the most important aspects of handling from the car standpoint (the nut behind the wheel being the most important handling mod). Someday when I win the lottery I'll throw on the Super Shaker onto my S197 and let her rip, but for now, 300 HP and 320lb*ft at the crank are good enough for me

[JakeM]

I have gone back and forth forever on whether or not I want F.I. When it comes down to it, I really do. I am a apprentice (read newbie ass) Calibrator (Tuner) so I want to learn how to tune on F.I. Also, I've had my car since new in 2006 and I'm REALLY bored with the power she makes. I'll be adding Koni SRT.T's, Steeda Sport springs, Steeda HD strut mounts and HOPEFULLY a fays2 watts link over the winter. From there, as a learn what my car needs, I will swap stuff out to more adjustable stuff. Like Strano Sway's, Koni Sports and a few other choice pieces as budget/learning curve allows. Doing Pad's, SS lines, Fluid and a dedicated set of track rotors from NTO as well. That is for certain. In addition to Dunlop Star Specs in 265/40/17 on 17x9 Bullets. They are going for fairly cheap on TireRack right now.

At least, that is the plan.... We shall see how that goes.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by JakeM I have gone back and forth forever on whether or not I want F.I. When it comes down to it, I really do. I am a apprentice (read newbie ass) Calibrator (Tuner) so I want to learn how to tune on F.I. Also, I've had my car since new in 2006 and I'm REALLY bored with the power she makes. I'll be adding Koni SRT.T's, Steeda Sport springs, Steeda HD strut mounts and HOPEFULLY a fays2 watts link over the winter. From there, as a learn what my car needs, I will swap stuff out to more adjustable stuff. Like Strano Sway's, Koni Sports and a few other choice pieces as budget/learning curve allows. Doing Pad's, SS lines, Fluid and a dedicated set of track rotors from NTO as well. That is for certain. In addition to Dunlop Star Specs in 265/40/17 on 17x9 Bullets. They are going for fairly cheap on TireRack right now. At least, that is the plan.... We shall see how that goes.

Make sure the pads you pick are more street oriented than track oriented. You really have to get the track pads hot to get them to bite and autocross doesn't heat brakes up that much. Good luck with your suspension plans, although I'd really look into a different wheel, but I'm assuming those are your stock wheels =)

I'm right there with ya on keeping plans. I've got plans to add KW Variant 3 Coilovers with some caster/camber plate, strano sways and the fays2 watts link and then eventually some Hoosiers cheap, either A6 (preferred) or R6. One of my co-workers has a friend that sells test and tuned race tires that are pulled off of test and tune cars by pro's. Generally able to get a set of 4 R6 or rarely A6's for much cheaper than new. The R6 is obviously less than ideal for autox (need to get them hot to get them sticky, that's what she said ) but it's a heck of a lot better than the BFG KDWS's that are on the car now. As for width, 305 or 315's on Enkei 18x10.5's on all 4 corners. Strano claims you can run them in 45mm offset with a 5mm spacer up front but they stick out of the wheel wells a little bit. Considering they will be dedicated track wheels, I can live with that. Hopefully I'll be able to get the car very close to neutral in handling and then for daily driving I'll get a nice set of staggered 18x9 and 18x10 wheels to put back some understeer to make it safer to drive yet keep the stupid aggressive look.

Eventually I would like to get a new set of front A-Arms and a new K-Member and radiator supports. Full length SFC's welded in and a decent exhaust. Throw in the power upgrades with the Saleen 302 stroker kit and the Saleen Super Shaker and shoot for roughly 450HP and lb*ft which is low and not stressing on anything. I'm 99% sure that these are in the realm of "if I win the lottery" as money is a bit tight right now and dropping the 7K for the Super Shaker and god knows how much on the 302 stroker kit

Anyway, I've thuroughly hijacked the OP's thread... back to your regularlly scheduled thread =)

[Jazzer The Cat]

You don't need any SFC's on an S197, but would consider a cage, as seems you may have your eyes set on open-track work I would also be a bit careful on the used tires you may buy. They are very likely heat-cycled out and lost most of their grip

Jazzer

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Jazzer The Cat You don't need any SFC's on an S197, but would consider a cage, as seems you may have your eyes set on open-track work I would also be a bit careful on the used tires you may buy. They are very likely heat-cycled out and lost most of their grip Jazzer

I have heard that sfcs are not needed with the s197, but only from people who didn't push their cars prior to installation. My thought on them is simply for peace of mind that if I start throwing my car into corners, the repeated load/unload cycle and twisting of the chassis can eventually cause things to come out of alignment like doors not closing properly and the dash not fitting, etc. I'm not really interested in any performance impacts from installation. They would also provide another area for jacking the car up which is nice.

I was looking at some cages to take the backseat out and provide better load bearing capabilities for the rear shock towers for what is hopefully a future expansion to proper rear coilovers. I'm worried about road legality and comfort of a caged daily driver though. Removing the rear seat is a blessing as it prevents rear passengers.

The tires are supposedly taken off after a lap or so for test and tune purposes. Some may have some minor flat spots but I don't think they would have heated up that much. It was an option that I was looking into, but I may go for new a6s anyway.

Edit: just talked with my friend about the used tires and he said the guy selling them is straight forward with the number of heat cycles and all of the nicks ont the tires and has the tires priced according to wear and all that jive so its not like they are completely trashed

I forgot to ask what the give away was for open tracking though, coilovers?? I do plan to get there and I'm using autox as a quick way to test the car at the limits. I will start a build thread here lining out what I do plan on doing eventually rather than polluting this thread. I'm on my phone at work here so I will do that tonight.

[JakeM]

Jazzer - I want a cage asap. I want the ability to run some decent racing seats with good 5 or 6 point harnesses. I'd love to not have to brace myself with my arms on the wheel and my legs on the center council around hard corners.

Whiskey - I plan on starting out on a more street oriented pad for sure. But I want to make sure I have good fluid.

As far as scrubs go, I wouldn't mind picking up a set or two. If you can find someone thats trustworthy. There are a few guys that sell them on racingjunk.com that claim only 1-3 heat cycles for 100 a pop.